Gender test for any first place over $199......

Celophanewrap

Call me Grace
Silver Member
There is a woman who plays out of California, and many national events, for whom it is "common knowledge” that she is transgender. I don’t know so I don’t want to name this person, but she won with her team at the ACS nationals this past spring. She’s an older woman and has been around pool for many years - and won lots of tournaments and league events. All I know is the people I talk to believe she’s trans and that it’s unfair. Maybe some people here know who I’m talking about.

I think a post surgery person should be allowed to exploit their new gender.
They cut off Johnny for Christ's sake, pool seems to be a small price to pay.
 

BmoreMoney

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
How is this a matter of discussion? Your gender for pool is what is on your license.

If it is good enough for an id, it is good enough for a tournament.

Thank You!!!! Amen, Halleljuah! Not rocket science by any means . For the record, I believe it starts to become a little more acceptable and reasonable of a question only once one has " went for the whole 9 ".

I'd like to explore the APA thing a little more.A few folks listed some examples earlier in thread. For the purpose of this discussion we are obviously talking about a woman's only league. Being as such, it wouldnt directory affect most on here but look at it like this : Admittedly , I am not an APA Expert but I'm guessing we are talking about a league or tournament that does not include handicaps. Say it's yuri girl , your wifey, sis, etc and they have played their hearts out to get to where they are and then all of a sudden ............ they get steamroller by a girl that's really a guy but thinks they're a girl that wants to be a guy - yall get the point. The real female in this scenario feels cheated, disheartened , dejected - ANDROID DESERVEDLY SO. No her good fun clean time has been ruined. It ,a even be to the point where she ( the real girl ) doesn't even want to play anymore, or at least not in a format that allows that kiinda bs.
 

jasonlaus

Rep for Smorg
Silver Member
LOL. This whole issue makes me laugh! I'm sure the women can handle their own tour! This is all part of that American hysteria regarding the transgender issue. You guys do know that was all a way to distract you from the real issues, right?

Anyway, the odds of this actually happening has got to be extremely small. Would you shave your legs, put on lipstick and a dress, go to a tournament and play it all the while wearing that? I live in a rough part of town, I'd probably be beaten up before I got 50 m away from my apartment. If my friends saw me, I'd never hear the end of it! What if someone took a picture of you and posted it online? I'm not in any way homophobic, but I wouldn't be caught dead wearing a dress and lipstick and I think most straight and maybe even a lot of gay men would feel the same way.

So then there is the subset of people who not only like wearing dresses and lipstick, but do so often, publicly. That's not the largest part of the population, is it? What are the actual odds of such a person, not only playing pool, but also being extremely good at it, to the point of dominating the tour? Those odds have to be miniscule! A lot of pool players have a very inflated sense of their skills, anyway. They think they'd dominate the womens tour, even playing on heels, lol. Well, I watched Jasmine Ouschan cut through a field comprising of male A players like a hot knife through butter... Those players were not wearing unfamiliar shoes or clothes, either...

When you are talking about actual transgender people, not just crossdressers, you know, the people who actually take hormones and have had surgeries, the odds of them being brilliant pool players have to be even smaller than that, simply because of the even smaller subset they belong to. These people are not fraudsters or tricksters! No price money is worth having your privates surgically altered. They are sincere in their desires to live as a women and go through hellish medical procedures to accomplish that task. I say, if the women are fine with them competing, so should you be! I think the most humane thing is to deal with these things on a case to case basis, and with sensitivity. But for the most part, if the State/Country recognizes you as a woman, then that is what you are. Showing papers should be enough in those cases. What if a person turns out to be a woman by your definition were to be subjected to a forced blood test or examination? I don't think they'd be very happy about it at all! Neither would anyone else, for that matter. If paperwork is respected, then that need never happen.

How would you feel if some greasy tournament director said to your face that he didn't think you were a real man? That wouldn't go over really well with me. I don't know about you, but if any implied threat of force or imperative to strip were to follow that, this pool tournament just became a two man mma tournament.

I'm just curious as to where all these women playing pool are wearing dresses, heels, and lipstick??? Doesnt happen! So you can knock that nonsense off right now
Jason
 

Rico

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Gender test

Instead of a gender test we should have a drug test for those p***ys that cant play on the natch
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Instead of a gender test we should have a drug test for those p***ys that cant play on the natch

Don't bother putting any thought into the issue.

One test involves looking at a document and one involves a medical procedure that cannot be performed on site or provide immediate results.

You may not join the planning committee.
 

Fenwick

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Instead of a gender test we should have a drug test for those p***ys that cant play on the natch

I've seen people go from middle age to old almost overnight.
I've also seen people use what boxers use between rounds to come out of their stupor before a match.
Almost everyone I grew up with and used is dead now. It's not confined to pool players or the young or old.

Most of us are living in paradise here on Earth without drugs.
 
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Pelican1989

Registered
With subsequent talk and recent talk about gender roles in various tourneys I honestly think we need SOME KIND OF STANDARD. Otherwise, me and others might just go put a dress on and cash in.Valid question / subject - what say you?

yeah, exactly people like YOU are the problem?

pretenders, not real trans folks
 

Pelican1989

Registered
I think anyone can enter an open tournament, so who cares about what they have in their pants? If an open trans enters a women's tournament, I think that is wrong. I don't care nearly as much about their humiliation as some might think.

why is it wrong? what does one's birth genitals have to do with a game of pool?

when someone lives as a woman, looks like a woman, has estrogen like a woman, even a vagina like a woman, and their whole life completely changes...what makes them in any way ...not a woman??
 

Pelican1989

Registered
so i want to open up the discussion a little further

my thoughts on WHY we have women's only events in the first place

1. less women play, and they may find it harder to enjoy, a womens tournament is a way of encouraging them to play, because their odds of winning will be better

2. women only events provide an escape from the male dominated aspect of the sport. Women might find men difficult, stressful etc, or want to accomplish on their own without relying on the "heavy hitters" in a handicap league where more top players are men

3. women are theoretically and statistically not as commonly as good as men. They have the potential, but the current reality shows that there is a skill gap ON AVERAGE. Therefore women's only events are a way to make a "fair comp" where there is less variance in skill level

so with these goals in mind, i bring a new situation to the table

we've been dicussing a trans women, assigned male at birth, transitioning and competing with women. Why exactly would they have an advantage anyway?

in my league we have several 5,6,7 skill rank women (APA / CPA league), so if a SL 4 "trans woman" entered the tournament (handicapped or flat) why would they have an adavnatcge??? clearly the higher skill women would on average beat the trans SL4

what makes the trans woman advantaged? their supposed penis (or new lack of one) gives them magic pool abilities?

their neuro / brain development gives them an advantage? unless they are a SL 7+ why would it even matter??? i feel like we are discussin gthis as if THE BEST of the best are gonna fake being women...in my league we have several hundred players, I personally am the ONLY trans person I know specifically, so its not like there are loads of SL 7 trans women running around im sure...

what about the fact that trans women show marked differences in brain structure and development? they can actually show distinct areas of the brain where a trans womans is similar to a cis womans, but not similar to straight or gay males, so maybe this isn't the advantage???

so is it testosterone that gives the advantage??

what about when they supppress their testosterone and add estrogen? what if they are fuly within "female" hormanal levels?? wont the advantage go away?? (other than height??)

NOW THE REAL QUESTION

what about trans MEN

a trans man who undergoes surgery and takes testosterone can legitimately be more manly, masculine, muscular, etc as any guy, I've met plenty and they pass as male and are super manly compared to the perception of trans women as "men in dresses"

so can the trans man compete with women?? shouldnt the answer be no??

but I get the feeling that many folks would believe that NEITHER trans men nor trans women should be able to compete with women.

id like to hear some thoughts on allt he points ive brought forward here

as someone who is REALLY trans...its interesting to know what to expect (currently im a SL 7-7 in apa 8 and 9 ball, so if I did ever compete in the future in womens events, this would be contentious)
 

easy-e

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
why is it wrong? what does one's birth genitals have to do with a game of pool?

when someone lives as a woman, looks like a woman, has estrogen like a woman, even a vagina like a woman, and their whole life completely changes...what makes them in any way ...not a woman??

I can tell this is a sensitive subject for you. I respect your opinion, but also disagree with it.
 

Pelican1989

Registered
I can tell this is a sensitive subject for you. I respect your opinion, but also disagree with it.

What does "respecting your opinion" even mean? If you disagree clearly you don't respect it?

I was looking for actual answers to the questions I asked.
 

Rimfirejunkie

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
why is it wrong? what does one's birth genitals have to do with a game of pool?

when someone lives as a woman, looks like a woman, has estrogen like a woman, even a vagina like a woman, and their whole life completely changes...what makes them in any way ...not a woman??

That would be DNA
 

easy-e

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
What does "respecting your opinion" even mean? If you disagree clearly you don't respect it?

I was looking for actual answers to the questions I asked.

I don't give a $hit what you're looking for. I respect the fact that you're passionate about the subject. I don't share your opinion. :thumbup:
 
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