I vote, lose the STUPID mark the pocket rule.I can't even imagine that the person who invented this rule is a pool player.
Getting called on a tough technicality...
- Thread starter CreeDo
- Start date
Here's food for thought:
It's a coaching foul to yell at someone to mark their pocket, ya? So if we had yelled at my teammate "hey man your marker dropped" we could have only given up ball in hand instead of a guaranteed loss. I wish I'd been smart enough to think of that at the time. When our captain looked at the other's team captain after it fell, the other team's captain put his finger to his lips and said "shhhh". Maybe he thought of it
It's a coaching foul to yell at someone to mark their pocket, ya? So if we had yelled at my teammate "hey man your marker dropped" we could have only given up ball in hand instead of a guaranteed loss. I wish I'd been smart enough to think of that at the time. When our captain looked at the other's team captain after it fell, the other team's captain put his finger to his lips and said "shhhh". Maybe he thought of it
I think the concern is...What is too much? It'd be easy for people to say "I didn't see him point his cue at that pocket", or "I didn't see him tap that pocket with his hand"....Something like a coaster...falling off AFTER he placed it, is a little bit crappy. If I see someone put a marker on a pocket, but it falls off....Everyone knows where he was going.
Agree it's a dumb rule and that what you did was amusing.
However, under the rules of the event you were playing were your team mates actually allowed to coach you by shouting "mark the pocket!" ?
I think it would be a much more common occurrence for the other team to claim a foul for that kind of coaching than for potting the 8 when the marker has fallen on the floor.
Regarding the poster who said he personally wouldn't like to take advantage of the marker on the floor situation but in the hypothetical case of it happening he would go with what the majority of his team wanted to do.......obviously any of us would have no choice but to live with the majority decision in that particular case......but it would definitely be the last time I would play for that team if they claimed the frame. Having said that, in many years at all levels from pub league to international I know for sure that I've never been in any team containing a majority of players who would consider for a nanosecond claiming a frame for anything of such a mind bogglingly petty and morally unsupportable nature.
The fact that teams in which a majority would favour claiming the frame even exist is yet another ugly carbuncle on the image of the game.
Agree it's a dumb rule and that what you did was amusing.
However, under the rules of the event you were playing were your team mates actually allowed to coach you by shouting "mark the pocket!" ?
I think it would be a much more common occurrence for the other team to claim a foul for that kind of coaching than for potting the 8 when the marker has fallen on the floor.
Regarding the poster who said he personally wouldn't like to take advantage of the marker on the floor situation but in the hypothetical case of it happening he would go with what the majority of his team wanted to do.......obviously any of us would have no choice but to live with the majority decision in that particular case......but it would definitely be the last time I would play for that team if they claimed the frame. Having said that, in many years at all levels from pub league to international I know for sure that I've never been in any team containing a majority of players who would consider for a nanosecond claiming a frame for anything of such a mind bogglingly petty and morally unsupportable nature.
The fact that teams in which a majority would favour claiming the frame even exist is yet another ugly carbuncle on the image of the game.
The other team did it in the very first match against us....we mentioned to the captain that you aren't supposed to tell the player to mark the pocket, but we didn't want to take a game for such a silly thing, and we both agreed that it was OK for both teams to remind the player to mark the pocket (since it was the first time either team was ever asked to do such a thing).
I knew it was coming (from my teammates), but kinda played it off like they were bothering me when I was trying to shoot....and I knew the other team captain was standing to see if I would move the marker or not.
It's the petty cheating, whineing, b!tching and moaning, and ethics going out the window, like this that caused me to quit league. Thanks for reminding me. I was about to go back and try it again but this reminder has brought me back to my senses. Who the hell needs it? It's just toooooo much crap to fade (along with the filthy tables and balls) and this stuff takes all the joy out of playing pool.
The marker does not have to stay on the table! Shot should have counted, end of story. Bad call by the ref IMHO
Gene, but is that true in VNEA? I can't find an official rule on this situation online, just stuff that says it ought to be marked (or there's an option to call).
Two things I liked about APA when I tried it:
1. Limited coaching time outs are allowed
2. You're allowed to yell out reminders to mark the pocket and it's not a foul.
The latter especially should be permitted in VNEA .. there's absolutely no reason to penalize a team for reminding a player to mark. You aren't telling them how to win, you're just reminding them that it's a called shot game and their process for calling must be a little different for the 8.
Really there are 2 kinds of "rules"... real rules for playing 8 ball, which are pretty much universal across all leagues... and league-specific protocols which are designed to make the game fair, friendly and prevent arguments. It should be legal to remind people of protocols like "mark the pocket" or "ask him if it's ball in hand first". Personally I wouldn't mind if it's legal to remind someone about the real rules too. I don't want to beat a kid because he's too green to know about the push rule or whatever.
One of the protocol-style rules that I had mixed feelings about: At this canada event, the guy on the loudspeaker announces to the entire room that it's come to his attention that matches are being played without introductions and people are just packing up after they lose. He went on to remind us that you MUST introduce yourself before and shake hands after the match. If you don't, it will be counted against you. I think he phrased it weirdly so that he didn't exactly say it's a forfeit, but you will be penalized somehow.
It's nice that they want to promote friendliness and 'gentlemanly' play, but it's lame that they're doing it at gunpoint so to speak.
They're sending mixed signals in general - The introduction 'rule' says we're to at least pretend like it's a friendly game between decent folks. On the other hand the mark pocket rule says we can't trust them to be decent, we must act like they're looking to rob us blind and cheat someone out of a win any way they can.
Two things I liked about APA when I tried it:
1. Limited coaching time outs are allowed
2. You're allowed to yell out reminders to mark the pocket and it's not a foul.
The latter especially should be permitted in VNEA .. there's absolutely no reason to penalize a team for reminding a player to mark. You aren't telling them how to win, you're just reminding them that it's a called shot game and their process for calling must be a little different for the 8.
Really there are 2 kinds of "rules"... real rules for playing 8 ball, which are pretty much universal across all leagues... and league-specific protocols which are designed to make the game fair, friendly and prevent arguments. It should be legal to remind people of protocols like "mark the pocket" or "ask him if it's ball in hand first". Personally I wouldn't mind if it's legal to remind someone about the real rules too. I don't want to beat a kid because he's too green to know about the push rule or whatever.
One of the protocol-style rules that I had mixed feelings about: At this canada event, the guy on the loudspeaker announces to the entire room that it's come to his attention that matches are being played without introductions and people are just packing up after they lose. He went on to remind us that you MUST introduce yourself before and shake hands after the match. If you don't, it will be counted against you. I think he phrased it weirdly so that he didn't exactly say it's a forfeit, but you will be penalized somehow.
It's nice that they want to promote friendliness and 'gentlemanly' play, but it's lame that they're doing it at gunpoint so to speak.
They're sending mixed signals in general - The introduction 'rule' says we're to at least pretend like it's a friendly game between decent folks. On the other hand the mark pocket rule says we can't trust them to be decent, we must act like they're looking to rob us blind and cheat someone out of a win any way they can.
With players from both teams watching,Somebody gotta see the shooter call the pocket.In most leagues you have to call every shot any way,
so why change every thing for the 8 BALL.
so why change every thing for the 8 BALL.