Ginacue pleads guilty

For the deminimus you're going to see a lot of pool cue users, and dealers become mathematical experts.

A ferrule is .256 Oz, untapped, Ivory is listed at 115# / cu/ft... BTW

Better check those Hoppe rings, joints and butt caps :)

Joe
 
JB Cases said:
Yes, he would have sold a lot less cues without the Asian buyers. Fong Pang Chou and a few other players made Gina cues desirable and popular in Taiwan and Japan and wealthy buyers had to have them as status symbols.

The same goes for many other cue makers who have had a strong enduring market in Asia.

I once sat in the office of a wealthy pool room owner with my friend who sold him the tables. The owner wanted to buy SouthWest cues. I told him there was a ten year wait. He asked how many he could buy and I said I didn't know what the limit was but I thought it was 2 or 3. He asked seriously if he could buy 20 per year.

I have seen buyers just give a broker $100,000 to buy cues. I have seen buyers pay double retail for cues in Taiwan and Japan.
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I think he sells the same number of cues selling a cue at a time to Average Joe's or using a US based middleman. Less money, same number of cues. He made his choice, the same as almost every other top-tier, sell-out cue maker.
 
He may be a respected cue maker with celebrity customers, but it is quite clear that he knew this was illegal and decided to take a chance.
This could have been a non issue. Ernie has been making cues for a long time and I'm pretty sure he keeps up on the cue industry, so he knew there was a discussion about ivory, the new legislation and the moral problems with ivory.
Ernie had plenty of time to change the way he makes cues and start using synthetic ivory.
 
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classiccues said:
Doesn't matter... ok they are checked.. now they still are x-ray'd or gone through... so now they spot 18 cues with potential ivory.. then look at who owns them and yell BINGO...

JV
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I don't know why the two bozos had to rollover on Ernie. Do they know what a lawyer is?

They must have been led to believe they had a chance at recovering the cues if they cooperated.
 
I wonder if the agent who wrote the complaint kept a count of how times she said to herself the phrase "These are beautiful."?
 
PhilosopherKing said:
I don't know why the two bozos had to rollover on Ernie. Do they know what a lawyer is?

They must have been led to believe they had a chance at recovering the cues if they cooperated.
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Lol. Roll over on Ernie? That's hilarious. She could have found out who the cues were made by in about 10 minutes, if they didn't cooperate. All she would need to do is hop on AZB, join the forum, and post a "who made this cue?" thread with a picture of a few of the cues, showing the Gina logo. She'd have her cuemaker in about 10-15 minutes. As well as 5 offers on the cues.
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
Lol. Roll over on Ernie? That's hilarious. She could have found out who the cues were made by in about 10 minutes, if they didn't cooperate. All she would need to do is hop on AZB, join the forum, and post a "who made this cue?" thread with a picture of a few of the cues, showing the Gina logo. She'd have her cuemaker in about 10-15 minutes. As well as 5 offers on the cues.
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So what if he made them?
 
PhilosopherKing said:
I don't know why the two bozos had to rollover on Ernie. Do they know what a lawyer is?

They must have been led to believe they had a chance at recovering the cues if they cooperated.
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Rolled for a reduction in time in the Federal Pen.

Why would you think that they didn't have a lawyer?
 
First of all, I'm sick about this. I've known Ernie and played with his cues for the last 15 years.

In the last thread where this news broke, I even said that if he was going to be undone, it was going to be a paper trail. I suspected he knew where the cues where going because he's know Chady for many years. I guessed there would be emails. Obviously, Chady is in deeper trouble which is why he cooperated.

One poster here said Ernie will just get a fine and probation. I'd like to hope so, but I sort of doubt it. I'm assuming Ernie has a clean record, but still, this is a felony. It's also a federal case. I don't know how much discretion they have in sentencing. I suspect he will have to do some time. If so, fingers crossed its only a couple of months in a low security club fed facility.
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
Reading between the lines, it appears Ernie was flagged a few times when foreign owners tried shipping him cues to be repaired, that ended up getting confiscated.
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I don't think he was flagged for that. At the end of the day he can't really control what is sent to him. Seems like he just ignored the letters and didn't get involved allowing the cues to be confiscated. Seems like the agent found out about those tow situations only after she began investigating Ernie.

As I said before though the only issue I see really is if Ernie did anything that was intended to help with smuggling the cues and to that end the agent stated that in her opinion the invoices identified the cues with descriptions that she felt were intended to convey that the material was ivory substitute. If in fact that is what he did then guilty.

I am surely wrong but I don't feel that knowledge of where a person is from should be enough to convict someone for selling cues to them. I mean if someone says to me that they intend to take the cues out of the USA then I would have said that's on you but as far as I know it is not legal to do so. Helping the customer pack the cues is I guess a gray area if the seller had knowledge that the buyer was about to go get on a plane out of the USA. I guess that this would fall under the duty to report or something like that.

Shitty situation all the way around. :-(
 
alstl said:
I will sleep soundly tonight knowing the government has apprehended this old man who makes pool cues. I feel a lot safer.
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Same here. Laws are laws but this is absolutely rediculous.
Ivory can be real dangerous huh. But let's legalize pot. It'll be nice knowing the driver behind you is all fk'd but they bought it legally. Drive without a license and insurance. Set a DUI record and keep driving. Hold someone up in Phila they are getting slapped. A guys to court for stealing a car... Gets a slap... Leaves Court and steals a car to get home. Get rear ended by someone texting .... What's the big deal. Texting is not outlawed in most states and not enforced where it is outlawed. But let's face it. Nothing is about public safety. You know what.... FREE ERNIE:thumbup:
 
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100% chance the Feds are reading this thread right now.
LOL

I'm sure that eventually, they will come out with laws that make the ivory laden cues sitting in everyones closet, illegal to own.

So sick.
 
KissedOut said:
So in your book, if a guy is a great craftsman, and old, he can blatantly ignore the laws?

Did you read the complaint? He didn't get extorted, he is just realizing the magnitude of his ignorance of the law and how easily "deniability" can fail, once they get suspicious and start digging.

Read the complaint affadavit - they have him dead to rights and apparently he has been ignoring the law for years. Integrity is what happens when no one is looking.

It is a constant source of amazement to me how so many people here think that because a guy can make great cues he should not be held to the normal standards of honesty, ethics, and the law. It seems to be a constant and recurring theme.
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Ask yourself one question:

Who did he hurt?


Jeff Livingston
 
KissedOut said:
You obviously did not read the complaint. He sold to people that he knew were planning on taking them out of the country, and it is then called conspiracy. And he has been doing it for quite some time now, apparently.

Read the complaint/affadvit. Many people are just embarrassing themselves now because the facts are now out there and they are still making specious arguments that cannot hold up.
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Who did he hurt?

Jeff Living;ston
 
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