Ginacue popped over ivory, hopefully much or all fake.
- Thread starter ShootingArts
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The reason the CA aspect is brought up is state laws get enacted more easily than Federal laws. If Ernie
did indeed break the Federal law, then he may have also violated the CA regulation and if so, he's in big
trouble with CA Fish & Wildlife........one can be guilty of breaking both State & Federal regs on ivory ban.
So bringing up CA and other states exemplifies why people need to get off their asses and start making
some calls to confirm this movement doesn't nefariously creep into your state legislature's agenda. The
Federal equivalent takes a lot more time and effort & is publicized more than what happens at state levels.
did indeed break the Federal law, then he may have also violated the CA regulation and if so, he's in big
trouble with CA Fish & Wildlife........one can be guilty of breaking both State & Federal regs on ivory ban.
So bringing up CA and other states exemplifies why people need to get off their asses and start making
some calls to confirm this movement doesn't nefariously creep into your state legislature's agenda. The
Federal equivalent takes a lot more time and effort & is publicized more than what happens at state levels.
There's alcohol in mouthwash and cold syrup. What's your point?
The simple difference is that illegal drugs don't cause the extinction of a species.
No one is arguing that ivory will damage your health, as they do for drugs. The argument is about extinction.
Ivory and drugs are...excuse the pun....different animals.
If you're too dense to realize that ivory comes from a living being, no amount of chalkboard talks or crayola diagrams are going to help you.
Perhaps we should talk about the plight of the poor cannabis plant, and its right to live. Or the millions of innocent poppies killed per year for the opium trade. Or all those wheat fields/potatoes/etc that are destroyed to make alcohol.
The comparisons may make you feel better. The problems are not related in the slightest. You're discussing things that people are addicted to. I don't have a cocaine statue in my house. Or a meth ferrule on my pool cue. Some people get high to feel better. I ride my motorcycle and work out. That pretty white ferrule of yours can be replaced with a material that is more durable, costs less, and is a sustainable man made material.
All I hear are arguments about drugs, screaming trees, killing cows for food, etc. These arguments hold NO WATER, as we are talking about sustainable resources. And things that are necessities. Ivory is not a necessity. It's a luxury. And you are condoning the elimination of a species by using and supporting its trade. Plain and simple. If you think it's the human's right and prerogative to destroy the other living creatures on the planet purely for "luxury", you have no social conscience.
OMG. Someone actually gets it. Rep to you.
Cocaine was LEGAL. Surely you must be acting
You do realize fresh Ivory cannot be used don't you?
You owe many trees an apology for using the oxygen they made.
http://clacs.as.nyu.edu/docs/IO/16156/DrugWarBolivia_Background.pdf
Someone needs a chemistry lesson. There is no "cocaine" in Coca Cola.
I wrote my congressman and ask him to look into Ernie's situation. Ask him to make sure Ernie's not being railroaded by over zealous goverment myrmidons.
If was a California complaint, CDFG law enforcement would not only have went and arrested Ernie they would have stripped his shop of anything resembling evidence.
In many South Afrian countries Elephants are not endangered and their healthy populations are maintained by well regulated hunting permits issued by the goverments.
Most endangered elephants are in countries controlled by Warlords where poaching is excessive. I guess black market ivory byes a lot of bullets ?
I read it on the web.
If was a California complaint, CDFG law enforcement would not only have went and arrested Ernie they would have stripped his shop of anything resembling evidence.
In many South Afrian countries Elephants are not endangered and their healthy populations are maintained by well regulated hunting permits issued by the goverments.
Most endangered elephants are in countries controlled by Warlords where poaching is excessive. I guess black market ivory byes a lot of bullets ?
I read it on the web.
Stop pulling a Donald Trump. Remain on topic. Ivory. Not about trees.....or the cow that I ate for lunch, Or the wood I used today to build a wall. Dead elephants. Try to keep up.
And the US has no Charter of Rights and Freedoms, or amendments that allow them to completely wipe out a species of animal. So your legal rights have not been impeded in any way. Petition Congress to allow you to harvest all the American elephants you currently have for ivory.
NYC cue dude
Banned
You must be young. Coca is the derivative of cocaine, from the coca plant. This was the key ingredient in Coca Cola when it was first brought to market. Hence, the products name.
Opium was also ubiquitous, even in colonial America (mid to late 1700's), right on through to the early 1900's. Fwiw.
The truth IS, I DO NOT CARE NOR DOES MANY MANY OTHERS .
Cocaine was removed from Coca Cola in 1929. So, yeah, I guess I'm young. I'm not 87.
And coca is the raw leaf. Not the derivative of cocaine. Cocaine is the derivative of the coca plant.
The key ingredient in Coca Cola has always been sugar. Plain and simple. 12 teaspoons per can. The amount of "cocaine" that can be derived from the amount of coca leaves used in coke equates to about 6 one-hundredths of an ounce per 25 million gallons of coca cola syrup (just add fizzy water and sugar). Key ingredient? Even when straight cocaine was in the drink, there was about 1/400th of a grain of cocaine per ounce of syrup.
I'm 45. And I can read. The internet is a wonderful place.
westpocket9
Banned
this is a huge message that hits home very hard!
Shawn, FWIW, I think everyone in this thread needs to take a minute, and step back. No one really knows exactly what happened yet, so it's best to probably let thing's play out before Ernie is "convicted" before he even has his day, or a chance to defend himself. Now I will say this, yes, drugs and elephants are different animals, but...the way to KILL a market is usually the same. IF, these global gov'ts were really concerned about these truly magnificent animals, the "fix" was an easy one, long ago. All that had to be done, was for the ivory that was harvested legally, from animals that presumably died of natural causes, disease, age, etc, was for that Ivory to be dumped at giveaway prices in the various global markets. That would have driven down demand, which would have driven down prices, which is always the "cure" for devaluing anything. Once the value is gone, then the "crimes" associated with the obtaining of the product are FAR less likely, if the profit from such activities is diminished. Just look at the U.S. dollar as an example, when the gov't floods the market with funny money, the value of even a dollar, really isn't a dollar. Now, on top of this, if you want to target something, target the poachers! If these arsehats, were to say, be executed, which I for one would have NO problem with...then you have a double edged sword, that generally proves to be historically effective. This the last post that I will make in this thread, so I will just say in closing, that I truly do hope Ernie is vindicated, and that typically speaking, most of the "gov't's" who are enacting these "laws" as far I can tell, are generally following a page from a playbook, that they are apparently reading backwards, or upside down, IMO.
Best regards.
Joe P
The real problem with the Ivory ban is not that NEW ivory cannot be imported, exported, bought, sold or used. I think we can all deal with that. The problem is they have made the actions you can take with legal ivory and products containing legal ivory either heavily restricted and/or now illegal. In my case, I have a cue collection of some value. Every cue I have was made with legal ivory before July 1st, 2016. Now, I am heavily restricted as to what I may do with my legal cue collection. The documentation they require me to have in order to sell one of my cues, I do not have because at the time of purchase, it was not required. This is insanity and will not save any Elephants. It will just hurt me financially. This the Nazi style BS I have come to expect from our elected officials. This aspect of the law is also unconstitutional. Thats the problem.
If I am a business, like a cue maker, and I have inventory of pre-ban ivory or products made with pre-ban Ivory, I absolutely should be able to sell my remaining inventory lawfully. That would be the right way to structure the law.
Of course, I don't think my comments have much to do with Ernie's situation.
If I am a business, like a cue maker, and I have inventory of pre-ban ivory or products made with pre-ban Ivory, I absolutely should be able to sell my remaining inventory lawfully. That would be the right way to structure the law.
Of course, I don't think my comments have much to do with Ernie's situation.
Economics is the study of the allocation of resources and its principles apply to many items in marketplaces everywhere, including the scarce resource of elephants.
Also, value of anything is subjective, not objective, so there is no objective standard of who should use what resource for what purpose, who "should" use or not use ivory in a cue.
Lastly, there is a thing called property rights which in both the cues and the elephants cases have been reduced greatly by govt meddling, thus the increased scarcity and arguments about and pricing problems of ivory. If elephant populations were owned as cows, for one example, are owned, then scarcity would become a thing of the past as the owners, being selfish and greedy humans, would preserve their wealth and protect it from predators of any kind, thus a steady supply of ivory for the world just as there is a steady supply of milk and beef.
A good link for more on these subjects.
Jeff Livingston
ahem, people in CA, wanting to sell cues out of state, should find another white material to put in their cues.
Lou Figueroa
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