Ginky vs Archer

[sjm]

I am probably ginky's best friend, so I will offer a little perspective.

Ginky is a world class elite level pro, winning both the bca open and derby city PLUS the 99 world straight pool title, and that is enough for a resume.

Ginky still plays, but his heart is not in it, since his body failed him some 4 or 5 yrs ago.

BTW, ask the archers and stricklands if they really wanted to draw ginky before the semi's of any tournament, that should give some perspective.

BTW, it is also debateable, some will say, that he had the best cue ball control in the world. I argue yes he did.

about the race to 20 with mika, i was just talking to the master 2 nights ago about that, we are still laughing it up, ha ha.

rg

It really was a wonderful day. Sometimes losing the cash is overshadowed by the joy of the occasion. Watching two legitimate superstars of the game at the very height of their talents playing that memorable match is something those of us who saw it won't forget anytime soon.

Do you remember the critical shot of the match? It came with Ginky trailing 18 - 17. Mika had just safed him. The eight was frozen to the rail and the table was supertight. Ginky kicked it in and got out when he had to have it. One of the better clutch shots any of us had ever seen. Great shot by a great player! Here it is. Definitely the defining moment of that classic match.

 

[sjm]

I am also a close friend of Ginky and can tell you that he was destined to become a living legend. He had no weaknesses in his game and no one worked harder than he did. He was the most dedicated player that I have ever seen and continues to be an inspiration to me to this day.

I have probably played him more when he was at his best than anyone else. He made me realize what my weaknesses were and thanks to him, I grew and continue to grow as a player. TR

TR, you and Ginky helped push each other to the supreme excellence you both attained. Like you, I enjoy reflecting on the best of Ginky, the Ginky of 1999 and 2000. He sure was a special player and it would be great to see him attain that level again somewhere down the road.

TR, what a pleasant surprise it is seeing you post! You have been an enduring symbol of excellence and good sortsmanship for all the years I've known you. Anytime I walk into a NYC poolroom and see you there, it puts a smile on my face. Thanks for everything you've meant to NYC pool. You show us all how it's done when it comes to being an ambassador for the game.

 

[steffi]

The only time I've ever seen Ginky play was at Fast Eddie's in NOVA Joss tour event in 1998 I think where I think Jerry Slivka beat him on his home ground and then Corey Duel came back from the loss side to beat Slivka who lost his composure in the final. That day there was a lot of a talk about Ginky but Slivka had him beat.

TR, you and Ginky helped push each other to the supreme excellence you both attained. Like you, I enjoy reflecting on the best of Ginky, the Ginky of 1999 and 2000. He sure was a special player and it would be great to see him attain that level again somewhere down the road.

TR, what a pleasant surprise it is seeing you post! You have been an enduring symbol of excellence and good sortsmanship for all the years I've known you. Anytime I walk into a NYC poolroom and see you there, it puts a smile on my face. Thanks for everything you've meant to NYC pool. You show us all how it's done when it comes to being an ambassador for the game.

 

[Steve Lipsky]

sjm, you are so right. We who were in New York during that period were lucky to witness the kind of pool George was playing. And we could see it nearly every day.

He was a player who was feared, first in the Northeast, later in the world. I remember commenting to a good friend of mine that he had become a bad draw in a pro tournament. You could be Efren, and there would be 50 other guys you'd rather draw in your first round than George.

In one of the BCA Opens (he finished 1st and 2nd back to back, I believe), he beat Ralf Souquet 11-0. Eleven to zero. I'm sitting at my computer trying to think of something more to emphasize the level of play this necessitates, but I can't.

His game was a beautiful - and perfect - blend of confidence, shotmaking, defense, and most of all, creativity. His safety play was stunning; he simply saw things that others didn't. You had to fight him for that first shot of the rack. And when he had to kick, you often did not like your return to the table.

On a personal level, I learned more from George about the game than from anyone (save 14.1 from Danny Barouty). Shot selection, rotation pattern-play... even just the way he exuded confidence at the table. You could look in his eyes, from the toughest of positions, and just know he wasn't going to miss. You can't teach that through language... you just have to see it.

He has the same talent he's always had, but a fifth of the desire. And as we all know, it's tough to play your best like that.

I'll close by mentioning that George (along with Tony Robles and this board's sjm) is responsible for the depth of knowledge and general play in the NYC area. We may not have a plethora of killers anymore, but we've sure got a lot of A and B level shooters who owe almost everything to those three players.

- Steve

 

[sjm]

sjm, you are so right. We who were in New York during that period were lucky to witness the kind of pool George was playing. And we could see it nearly every day.

He was a player who was feared, first in the Northeast, later in the world. I remember commenting to a good friend of mine that he had become a bad draw in a pro tournament. You could be Efren, and there would be 50 other guys you'd rather draw in your first round than George.

In one of the BCA Opens (he finished 1st and 2nd back to back, I believe), he beat Ralf Souquet 11-0. Eleven to zero. I'm sitting at my computer trying to think of something more to emphasize the level of play this necessitates, but I can't.

His game was a beautiful - and perfect - blend of confidence, shotmaking, defense, and most of all, creativity. His safety play was stunning; he simply saw things that others didn't. You had to fight him for that first shot of the rack. And when he had to kick, you often did not like your return to the table.

On a personal level, I learned more from George about the game than from anyone (save 14.1 from Danny Barouty). Shot selection, rotation pattern-play... even just the way he exuded confidence at the table. You could look in his eyes, from the toughest of positions, and just know he wasn't going to miss. You can't teach that through language... you just have to see it.

He has the same talent he's always had, but a fifth of the desire. And as we all know, it's tough to play your best like that.

I'll close by mentioning that George (along with Tony Robles and this board's sjm) is responsible for the depth of knowledge and general play in the NYC area. We may not have a plethora of killers anymore, but we've sure got a lot of A and B level shooters who owe almost everything to those three players.

- Steve

Guess we are lucky to have seen Ginky at his best so often. Creative, patient and disciplined sum him up for me.

Like you, I appreciate having been around so many true scholars of the game here in NYC for so long. Guys like Ginky, Danny, and Tony have shown us all how it's done over the green felt, and I'm sure they've all figured in your recent tournament successes. I had a ringside seat for Ginky over Ralf Souquet at the 2000 BCA Open, but I got an even bigger kick out of watching you beat Max Eberle in the 2005 BCA Open.

Finally, Steve, thanks for your kind words about me. I know that, just like me, you enjoy sharing your knowledge of the game with others, and that you've helped some players achieve some pretty special things over the glorious green felt.

 

[condor]

top eschelon? HUH??

Ginky was a great player. But a top eschelon(tier) player? Meaning what...that you'd put him up there with the likes of Efren, Archer, Strickland, Bustamante,Parica, Buddy Hall, etc?? You're kidding, right?

 

[cheemagun]

Ginky was a great player. But a top eschelon(tier) player? Meaning what...that you'd put him up there with the likes of Efren, Archer, Strickland, Bustamante,Parica, Buddy Hall, etc?? You're kidding, right?

NO.. were NOT kidding. The guy stopped competing for so long who knows what he couldve achieved. You had to see him play.

 

[Celtic]

Ginky was a great player. But a top eschelon(tier) player? Meaning what...that you'd put him up there with the likes of Efren, Archer, Strickland, Bustamante,Parica, Buddy Hall, etc?? You're kidding, right?

Your just another example of a players level of play fading through time in the eyes of the general public once they quit. 6 years ago noone would be surprised at anyone putting George San Souci in that top echelon of players.

 

[sjm]

Ginky was a great player. But a top eschelon(tier) player? Meaning what...that you'd put him up there with the likes of Efren, Archer, Strickland, Bustamante,Parica, Buddy Hall, etc?? You're kidding, right?

Consider the following. When it comes to competing against the most elite international fields.

Ralf Souquet has won the World 9-Ball Championship
Ralf Souquet has won the Sands Regency 9-ball Championship
Ralf Souquet has won the US Open 9-ball Championship
Ralf Souquet has won the US Open 14.1 Championship
Ralf Souquet has won the BCA Open 9-ball Championship
Ralf Souquet has won the Derby City Classic 9-ball Championship

Francisco Bustamante has not won the World 9-Ball Championship
Francisco Bustamante has not won the Sands Regency 9-ball Championship
Francisco Bustamante has not won the US Open 9-ball Championship
Francisco Bustamante has not won the US Open 14.1 Championship
Francisco Bustamante has not won the BCA Open 9-ball Championship
Francisco Bustamante has not won the Derby city Classic 9-ball Championship

... yet Ralf Souquet didn't even rate a mention on your list. Oh, and by the way, Ginky didn't exactly leave the scene before making his mark:

Ginky has won the Derby City Classic 9-ball Championship
Ginky has won the BCA Open 9-ball Championship

Please show a little respect for a player that proved himself on two of pool's biggest stages, despite having such a brief professional career. No, he was no Sigel, Archer, Hall, or Reyes, but Ginky has the credentials to have earned his reputation as an elite player.

 

[Timberly]

Ginky was a great player. But a top eschelon(tier) player? Meaning what...that you'd put him up there with the likes of Efren, Archer, Strickland, Bustamante,Parica, Buddy Hall, etc?? You're kidding, right?

Ralf Souquet has won the World 9-Ball Championship
Ralf Souquet has won the Sands Regency 9-ball Championship
Ralf Souquet has won the US Open 9-ball Championship
Ralf Souquet has won the US Open 14.1 Championship
Ralf Souquet has won the BCA Open 9-ball Championship
Ralf Souquet has won the Derby City Classic 9-ball Championship

Ralf accomplished all of the above & still got beat 11-0... Ralf is tough for anyone to beat... imagine how tough it is to beat him 11-0....

 

[sjm]

Ralf Souquet has won the World 9-Ball Championship
Ralf Souquet has won the Sands Regency 9-ball Championship
Ralf Souquet has won the US Open 9-ball Championship
Ralf Souquet has won the US Open 14.1 Championship
Ralf Souquet has won the BCA Open 9-ball Championship
Ralf Souquet has won the Derby City Classic 9-ball Championship

Ralf accomplished all of the above & still got beat 11-0... Ralf is tough for anyone to beat... imagine how tough it is to beat him 11-0....

It isn't easy, but at world class level, it happens. Perhaps the most memorable time there was a shutout between two stars of the game was when Deuel beat Immonen 11 - 0 in the final of the 2001 US Open.

 

[Steve Lipsky]

It isn't easy, but at world class level, it happens. Perhaps the most memorable time there was a shutout between two stars of the game was when Deuel beat Immonen 11 - 0 in the final of the 2001 US Open.

But sjm, they were using the Sardo rack for that match, correct? Nothing surprises me with that thing. I remember watching the semifinal match of the 2001 (?) WPC between Mika and Neils... I think they both ran about a 7-pack in that match. It was silly, more than anything else.

To be honest, I'm not sure if George's match with Ralf employed a Sardo... but I can't see him softbreaking anyway, lol.

- Steve

 

[Eric.]

but I got an even bigger kick out of watching you beat Max Eberle in the 2005 BCA Open.
.

Ditto. Where were you sitting? I was in the front row with a couple of friends, next to Steve's table.


Eric

 

[deadstroke32]

Kim D was player of the year in the early 90's so I'd put him above all the other guys we're talking about. When Kim was at his peak, he was phenomenal.

Kid D is as good as Ginky or better in my opinion. They have played a lot of $$ games and Kid D is up, from what I hear. Danny won Reno, should of won in LA (2nd place), and did well at the tourney before Reno (Glass City?Windy City? can't remember exactly) taking second and he ran 8 racks on someone coming from behind. Oh yeah, there's also the 500K in hustling he's made according to the Sports Illustrated article. The guy knows how to take down the cash.

If anyone wanted to back Ginky against Danny, I'm pretty sure Danny would love to play.

I feel that will never happen now a days,But some time back in the day , i would back Ginky over the kid And i like them both. But Ginky had a nice game back then .O well i need a New hero ..How about Tony Robles..
Great guy and great for the game..

 

[sjm]

Ditto. Where were you sitting? I was in the front row with a couple of friends, next to Steve's table.


Eric

I sat in VIP off to the side, so I had to look across another table to see Steve's match.

 

[NYC cue dude]

Along with being his best friend, I am also his backer, and I would put him up against anyone, ANYONE in the world, even now, if he asked me to. That especially includes Danny.

If Ginky has the desire to play Danny, and they make a game, the MONEY IS THERE.

BTW, there are no limits in my world.

RG

 

[Matt_24]

BTW, there are no limits in my world.

RG[/QUOTE]

- That is pretty strong!

 

[BackPocket9Ball]

I agree that Ginky in the late 90s was the strongest 9-ball player from New England all the way south to Virginia.

However, as far as Ginky beating Kid D. for the cash right now at this very moment, i don't think that you can call that high percentage.

Last year i watched Ginky get torched playing $200 sets with Roberto Valle from Italy when he and his better-known road partner Fabio Petroni were in New York. Billy F. was going in half with Ginky. Ginky quit after 2 sets, realizing that on that particular day, he wasn't likely to win.

Ginky has heart and talent (a boatload of both), but you have to be realistic and not just let ego take over. Kid D. is a TON more seasoned now than he was in 1999 at the age of 21 when Ginky was 26 and playing his strongest.

 

[Nostroke]

Kid D. is a TON more seasoned now than he was in 1999 at the age of 21 when Ginky was 26 and playing his strongest.

Was that

'pun intended' or 'no pun intended' ?

 

[NYC cue dude]

It is apropos that the title of this thread was Ginky v. Archer, and I had the pleasure of just two days ago having Archer come to Amsterdam Billiards to hang out and play me a game of straight pool.

I asked him about Ginky's game, and he said "when he was on, no one wanted to MESS with him" He agreed that he was infact world class, and that he was considered by ALL PROS to be a bad draw in a tournament.

Archer also said that within 6 months, the only pool game that will be played in the US will be 8ball, and that straight pool players will have the initial edge, big time.

RG