Glue question for gluing cores

DeeDeeCues said:
The problem with threading something the entire length is that the threads will almost assuredly bind. Couple that with the fact that more than seven threads isn't gaining any strength and it's a wasted eff
Click to expand...

DeeDeeCues said:
The problem with threading something the entire length is that the threads will almost assuredly bind. Couple that with the fact that more than seven threads isn't gaining any strength and it's a wasted effort.
Click to expand...
Aren't you the guy who said.
I have my own theories but haven't proven them yet.

Good luck don't be scared!
 
DeeDeeCues said:
The problem with threading something the entire length is that the threads will almost assuredly bind. Couple that with the fact that more than seven threads isn't gaining any strength and it's a wasted effort.
Click to expand...
When I tie down my excavator to the trailer I do take some comfort that the chain binders have more than seven threads.

Probably just in my head.

Actually thinking of starting with the butt sleeve in particular as it's a slip fit clamped in place by the butt cap currently. Why? Because of my belief threaded is always better than a slip fit everywhere possible due to adhesive limitations and material properties.
 
Deruki said:
When I tie down my excavator to the trailer I do take some comfort that the chain binders have more than seven threads.

Probably just in my head.

Actually thinking of starting with the butt sleeve in particular as it's a slip fit clamped in place by the butt cap currently. Why? Because of my belief threaded is always better than a slip fit everywhere possible due to adhesive limitations and material properties.
Click to expand...

Your chain binds don't exactly have the same tolerance threads as a cue *should* have. In fact, you may only be loading two or three threads.

This isn't in depth, but it is kinda useful for thread loading. In this, their #6 is what I'm talking about and it is based on steel, probably grade 8. Other materials will vary some, as will thread classes.
 
This thread reminded me of an old video in which I hit some balls with a test cue. The points were glued in and the leather wrap was glued on but there are absolutely no other adhesives used in the cue's construction. Even the joint screw was loose, though I forgot to show that. Despite this, the cue hit great and was dead straight. I don't worry so much about voids anymore, as long as the rest of the construction is "tight". You can see the video here:
 
dzcues said:
This thread reminded me of an old video in which I hit some balls with a test cue. The points were glued in and the leather wrap was glued on but there are absolutely no other adhesives used in the cue's construction. Even the joint screw was loose, though I forgot to show that. Despite this, the cue hit great and was dead straight. I don't worry so much about voids anymore, as long as the rest of the construction is "tight". You can see the video here:
Click to expand...

Nice that you have that video. I never videoed my similar experiment.
 
Deruki said:
When I tie down my excavator to the trailer I do take some comfort that the chain binders have more than seven threads.

Probably just in my head.

Actually thinking of starting with the butt sleeve in particular as it's a slip fit clamped in place by the butt cap currently. Why? Because of my belief threaded is always better than a slip fit everywhere possible due to adhesive limitations and material properties.
Click to expand...
Butt sleeves do not need threading.
The threaded cap will have to move before the sleeve moves. If your epoxy fails inside that sleeve, that epoxy wasn't good.
I threaded sleeves" bottom 1" as an experiment.
And angled the compound at 45* to thread the tenon that long..
Had to face the sleeve so it matches the forearm's grain orientation.
If you have a D ring, you might have to bore it larger to fit a larger tenon compared to the E area.
There is no payoff in the end.
I've never had a sleeve move. I've never even have a delrin cap move because I thread them.
 
I am actually starting to question the advantage of thin epoxy over poly glue on my handles due to the amazing ability of some wood to not absorb anything including glue. Just don't tell Kim Walker:LOL:
 
Deruki said:
I am actually starting to question the advantage of thin epoxy over poly glue on my handles due to the amazing ability of some wood to not absorb anything including glue. Just don't tell Kim Walker:LOL:
Click to expand...
Why does the epoxy have to be thin?
West ststem. A lot of info and well worth it.
 
Michael Webb said:
Why does the epoxy have to be thin?
West ststem. A lot of info and well worth it.
Click to expand...
Is west system not a thin epoxy? I would love some tips on how to get it to adhere to dense woods better. Not completely satisfied with some mock ups using pink ivory, cocobolo and black wood and a maple core. The heavy hard wood had like zero penetration and sketchy adhesion. Tried with various clearances and similar results. Cleaned the bore with a wire brush and alcohol as well as lacquer thinner first. I suppose one could let it stew a while until it is a bit thicker in the pot but not sure this would help.
 
Epoxy and penetration. Fun stuff.

Consider that I've seen steel beds for twenty ton machines epoxied to concrete floors.

Concrete can be rather porous, but epoxy isn't penetrating steel.
 
Deruki said:
Is west system not a thin epoxy? I would love some tips on how to get it to adhere to dense woods better. Not completely satisfied with some mock ups using pink ivory, cocobolo and black wood and a maple core. The heavy hard wood had like zero penetration and sketchy adhesion. Tried with various clearances and similar results. Cleaned the bore with a wire brush and alcohol as well as lacquer thinner first. I suppose one could let it stew a while until it is a bit thicker in the pot but not sure this would help.
Click to expand...
West system 403 and 404 additives are worth learning about.
 
Deruki said:
I've seen the available videos on them but would need to rethink a lot of my process' to get it in to where it needs to be wet. Wish you were closer I would come hang out for a week and learn much.
Click to expand...
I'm lucky eneogh to have friends who are great Cue makers but I learned more by my desire for knowledge and understanding than to ask my friends.
My rule and I've said it often is.
What if I know what I think I know, and to always remember what I didn't know yesterday.
That's my goal!
 
Could one make an internal groove on the outer wood and in external groove on the inner wood? Kind of like a snap ring groove? I mean, it's gonna be a huge exercise in precision and complicated as heck... but...

I'd think if you could do it and actually get the groove/grooves filled with epoxy it would lock them tight, even on woods where penetration is difficult.

I'm not a cue maker but this stuff is super interesting.
 
Michael Webb said:
I'm lucky enough to have friends who are great Cue makers but I learned more by my desire for knowledge and understanding than to ask my friends.
My rule and I've said it often is.
What if I know what I think I know, and to always remember what I didn't know yesterday.
That's my goal!
Click to expand...
I'm even luckier I don't have any friends. Save a lot of money that way :)

Thanks Michael
 
boogieman said:
Could one make an internal groove on the outer wood and in external groove on the inner wood? Kind of like a snap ring groove? I mean, it's gonna be a huge exercise in precision and complicated as heck... but...

I'd think if you could do it and actually get the groove/grooves filled with epoxy it would lock them tight, even on woods where penetration is difficult.

I'm not a cue maker but this stuff is super interesting.
Click to expand...
Glue relief on the core is easy stuff but unfortunately the inner hole is usually where the problem wood is. Cutting similar grooves in there is a challenge I haven't solved on a long piece. Roughing with a wire brush helps I'm pretty sure but some wood is just dense as hell which is why I'm always looking for better processes. I never assume something is good just because it sounds good in theory. I glue up mock ups and dissect them prior to using something in one of my cues that could give me trouble down the road. Very hard wood is troublesome to glue to a core is something I have learned this way.

If I ever hit the lottery big I plan to buy everyone's cues and dissect them on video for a weekly show. Not so much to criticize but to learn and debunk myths. That of course is after I quit my day job.
 
Deruki said:
Glue relief on the core is easy stuff but unfortunately the inner hole is usually where the problem wood is. Cutting similar grooves in there is a challenge I haven't solved on a long piece. Roughing with a wire brush helps I'm pretty sure but some wood is just dense as hell which is why I'm always looking for better processes. I never assume something is good just because it sounds good in theory. I glue up mock ups and dissect them prior to using something in one of my cues that could give me trouble down the road. Very hard wood is troublesome to glue to a core is something I have learned this way.

If I ever hit the lottery big I plan to buy everyone's cues and dissect them on video for a weekly show. Not so much to criticize but to learn and debunk myths. That of course is after I quit my day job.
Click to expand...
When your using the wire brush.
Is it a brush or round like a plumbers brush?
Are you doing it while it's spinning?
Turning Forward or Reverse?
 
As the first Cuemakers to fully investigate and perform tapered coring, using a gun drill and tapered reamer, I would suggest that much of what is being discussed and recommended here has found success with any number of makers to some degree . . . so to each his own . . . BUT why not take advantage of what others have learned over many years of successful cuemaking, starting with what people like Kim Bye and others have suggested - like using West System epoxy which was originally formulated for wooden boat building - from there examine how the all the components fit together and perform.
 
pfd studios said:
As the first Cuemakers to fully investigate and perform tapered coring, using a gun drill and tapered reamer, I would suggest that much of what is being discussed and recommended here has found success with any number of makers to some degree . . . so to each his own . . . BUT why not take advantage of what others have learned over many years of successful cuemaking, starting with what people like Kim Bye and others have suggested - like using West System epoxy which was originally formulated for wooden boat building - from there examine how the all the components fit together and perform.
Click to expand...

Really think about that statement. Why would someone ever have looked at west systems if they just looked at what others did before them. I'd bet multiple teens of dollars that GB never used west systems.
 
Michael Webb said:
When your using the wire brush.
Is it a brush or round like a plumbers brush?
Are you doing it while it's spinning?
Turning Forward or Reverse?
Click to expand...
It's a gun cleaning brush. I have also stapled 220 grit on a wooden dowel and wound it up for a good fit. That works best.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top