GOAT Hunt

skogstokig said:
i've heard that story, he told it once in a TAR interview, and i don't doubt it (although there were some chronological issues regarding ronnie's age at the time iirc). but it's not really mastering snooker. poolmanis on here ran a maximum with a pool cue. incredibly impressive, but in the end snooker like 9-ball or one pocket is a competition and you have to master the competition to master snooker.
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No, you’re right. He didn’t master snooker, but Efren could dab. The one story tells me that if he actually enjoyed snooker, he could have been competitive.

Ronnie would have been a teenager.
 
Cornerman said:
Hence the problem. You and manyothers are basing their opinion on popular opinion. I’m basing my opinion on seeing Efren and other play live, and I was the lead commentator for a couple US Open 8-ball tournaments.

I’ll try to use facts and logic. You can base your opinion on that.

9-ball - Sigel ruled the roost until Strickland upped his game. Still, from that Efren overlap, Sigel and Strickland each won 15 major tournaments that included all the top players. Efren won 5, with 3 of them in his first year in 1985z. His influence on one foul ball-in-hand cannot be overstressed. But the top player quickly figured it out, and Efren was relegated to the ~5th or so top 9-balller. 9-ball required great shotmaking, great pattern play, excellent safety play, and a world class break. Sigel was considered the best.

14.1 - a game the rewards pattern play and finesse with excellent combination and multiple ball movement in small spaces. When he retired, Sigel was still considered the best, and it would have been.a toss up in my lifetime between him and Mizerak.

8-ball - take a look at what’s required for 9-ball and 14.1 and try to tell me how the guy that was considered the best at both those discipline couldn’t have been considered the best at 8-ball. What skill do you think Sigel didn’t have as the arguably the best player in both that would have made him anything other than the #1 or #2 8-ball player of his time?

The truth is that 8-ball wasn’t played much at the pro level. So I can’t say that Sigel was the best 8-ball player, but logic would say that the skills needed in 8-ball were the skills Sigel already demonstrated to have that brought him to be considered the “best in the world” in the only two major disciplines at the time. The realty is, Sigel has a World 8-ball title to his name plus some other pro 8-ball event, even if there were hardly any

Here’s some information that I’m sure you haven’t considered:

Although there weren’t many one pocket tournaments in his day, Sigel won two one pocket pro tourney, one of which was Legends of One Pocket event, which Gray Matthews started to revitalize One Pocket. If one were to dismiss these wins, you’d have to dismiss a whole lot of great one pocket players that were in that event. At the time, Efren hadn’t figured out the game either. One pocket hadn’t taken a foothold yet.

Snooker on a 6x12 wasn’t seen much in the USA except for in Northeast due to its proximity to Canada’s. My home room had a 6x12. The west coast had tricked up 6x12’. The southeast had American Snooker tables usually 9 or 10’. Sigel claims a single frame match victory of Steve Davis in 1981 on a 6x12. We’ve seen Mizerak play on a 6x12, and he claimed having a century run. Efren has had centuries, and Sigel was alway a better shotmaker. I never saw Sigel play on a snooker table, but I can’t see how he couldn’t at least play it better than most players. He had one of the straightest stroke of all time.

I’m not here to change anyone’s mind. But a lot of minds are made up when they never saw it live or didn’t know the history.
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No disrespect, but seeing it live doesn’t make you an authority or make your opinion any more valid than mine. since the criteria for being the best is murky, all we can do is go by popular opinion, and I think most would say Efren was PROBABLY the better player overall
 
8intheside said:
No disrespect, but seeing it live doesn’t make you an authority or make your opinion any more valid than mine. since the criteria for being the best is murky, all we can do is go by popular opinion, and I think most would say Efren was PROBABLY the better player overall
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It’s a million times better than basing on popular opinion and NOT seeing it live.

You were already wrong on your assertion. Let it go instead of doubling down. You didn’t realize the strength of Sigel. We get it.
 
Cornerman said:
It’s a million times better than basing on popular opinion and NOT seeing it live.

You were already wrong on your assertion. Let it go instead of doubling down. You didn’t realize the strength of Sigel. We get it.how
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Cornerman said:
It’s a million times better than basing on popular opinion and NOT seeing it live.

You were already wrong on your assertion. Let it go instead of doubling down. You didn’t realize the strength of Sigel. We get it.
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How can an opinion be wrong? How about we take a poll and ask who the greatest is. What do you say? And you think youre the only one who’s seen Efren and sigel both live and didn’t think Efren was better? Lmao.. You do realize he’s called the GOAT for a reason, right?
 
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8intheside said:
How can an opinion be wrong? How about we take a poll and ask who the greatest is. What do you say? And you think youre the only one who’s seen Efren and sigel both live and didn’t think Efren was better? Lmao.. You do realize he’s called the GOAT for a reason, right?
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A poll is worthless.

Anybody you ask outside AZ will say that black spider lady(Jeannette) is the best female on the planet and they'd all be wrong.

Just sayin
 
jasonlaus said:
A poll is worthless.

Anybody you ask outside AZ will say that black spider lady(Jeannette) is the best female on the planet and they'd all be wrong.

Just sayin
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Billy incardona former professional player and commentator, who’s seen Efren play “live” many times, claims Efren is the best.
 
8intheside said:
How can an opinion be wrong? How about we take a poll and ask who the greatest is. What do you say? And you think youre the only one who’s seen Efren and sigel both live and didn’t think Efren was better? Lmao.. You do realize he’s called the GOAT for a reason, right?
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I feel quite confident that a poll with serious pool fans that saw both Sigel and Efren in their primes for the two major disciplines that were played by all professionals at the time, 9-ball and 14.1, that Sigel would be the overwhelming choice for better player. Efren, as others who also watched have said, is not even in the conversation. The fact they you didnt see them both and dont understand factual tournament results tell me you’re basing your opinon on nothing.

Efren is the GOAT for longevity. He represented the elite excellence seen in the 80’s well into the 2000’s long after the elite that beat him over and over were well past their prime. He’s the GOAT for his creativity and changing how each game was approached. He’s the GOAT for his dominance at the Derby City All -Around, which came up in that interim where new elite weren’t as good as the old elite.
 
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Cuebuddy said:
Ride that horse!
Cornerman said:
I feel quite confident that a poll with serious pool fans that saw both Sigel and Efren in their primes for the two major disciplines that were played by all professionals at the time, 9-ball and 14.1, that Sigel would be the overwhelming choice for better player. Efren, as others who also watched have said, is not even in the conversation. The fact they you didnt see them both and dont understand factual tournament results tell me you’re basing your opinon on nothing.

Efren is the GOAT for longevity. He represented the elite excellence seen in the 80’s well into the 2000’s long after the elite that beat him over and over were well past their prime. He’s the GOAT for his creativity and changing how each game was approached. He’s the GOAT for his dominance at the Derby City All -Around, which came up in that interim where new elite weren’t as good as the old elite.
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So what exactly is your argument? Are you saying that prime Sigel is better than prime Efren? Efren himself said he played better and was in his prime in tbe mid to late 70s. so technically sigel never played prime Efren.
 
Cornerman said:
I feel quite confident that a poll with serious pool fans that saw both Sigel and Efren in their primes for the two major disciplines that were played by all professionals at the time, 9-ball and 14.1, that Sigel would be the overwhelming choice for better player. Efren, as others who also watched have said, is not even in the conversation. The fact they you didnt see them both and dont understand factual tournament results tell me you’re basing your opinon on nothing.

Efren is the GOAT for longevity. He represented the elite excellence seen in the 80’s well into the 2000’s long after the elite that beat him over and over were well past their prime. He’s the GOAT for his creativity and changing how each game was approached. He’s the GOAT for his dominance at the Derby City All -Around, which came up in that interim where new elite weren’t as good as the old elite.
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going back to what I said earlier. Bill incardona said ”he has seen them all” and Efren is the best.
 
Cornerman said:
I feel quite confident that a poll with serious pool fans that saw both Sigel and Efren in their primes for the two major disciplines that were played by all professionals at the time, 9-ball and 14.1, that Sigel would be the overwhelming choice for better player. Efren, as others who also watched have said, is not even in the conversation. The fact they you didnt see them both and dont understand factual tournament results tell me you’re basing your opinon on nothing.

Efren is the GOAT for longevity. He represented the elite excellence seen in the 80’s well into the 2000’s long after the elite that beat him over and over were well past their prime. He’s the GOAT for his creativity and changing how each game was approached. He’s the GOAT for his dominance at the Derby City All -Around, which came up in that interim where new elite weren’t as good as the old elite.
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Cornerman said:
I feel quite confident that a poll with serious pool fans that saw both Sigel and Efren in their primes for the two major disciplines that were played by all professionals at the time, 9-ball and 14.1, that Sigel would be the overwhelming choice for better player. Efren, as others who also watched have said, is not even in the conversation. The fact they you didnt see them both and dont understand factual tournament results tell me you’re basing your opinon on nothing.

Efren is the GOAT for longevity. He represented the elite excellence seen in the 80’s well into the 2000’s long after the elite that beat him over and over were well past their prime. He’s the GOAT for his creativity and changing how each game was approached. He’s the GOAT for his dominance at the Derby City All -Around, which came up in that interim where new elite weren’t as good as the old elite.
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Ever hear of Earl Strickland? To quote him, “”I’ve played them all and he’s the greatest” and he’s played him “live”
 
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