Gold Crown IV vs Red Label Diamond

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snatch

New member
Gold Crown IV vs Red Label Diamond
Hi, Would like to know which table is better play, better deal ect? Both are 9 ft, from the pictures both look in good condition.


Gold Crown IV in brown with bronze trim, $2700 plus $600 to move(sold from individual) or Red label Diamond in rose wood, installed with new 860 $4k (from a local dealer).

The GC has adjustable feet which i feel i need for my playing area(its in a basement with uneven cement)not sure if the diamonds adjust. New felt and bumpers seem to cost about another 1100 for the GC if it needs it. From research players seem to love the play of this pool table. The gold crown IV seems to be the staple of the GCs. It being the last USA built one and having adjustable feet is a huge bonus.

From reading the forum people seem to dislike the red labels play. If i wanted to transform a red label to blue label, it would cost about 2.2k with leveling kit, maybe more if I need a mechanic to install(if this is still possible). Probably still will not play like a blue label. Doubt i ever would do it if i went with this pool table.

This is my first table btw. I really wanted a black pool table. I like the bronze trim of the GC, but can't stand the brown. I ask if its possible to change color by painting/staining and/or buying black new rails?
 
I love the GCIVs. I don't know anything about red label Diamonds. I think the GCIVs have recessed pocket liners and the corner castings seem to be more flush with the tops of the rails, at least on the ones I've played on. I believe the tops of the rails are formica, I've never cared for that style of fake woodgrain that you find on the GCs. I don't know what would be involved to paint the GC black., but it's probably more than a couple of cans of Krylon. I'm sure you'll like how the GC plays, if you can handle the aesthetics.
 
The red label diamonds really play “goofy” unless you modify the rails so they play like a blue label. Not sure how much that costs
Diamond re designed them ( red label tables ) because of that
I would buy the gold crown
 
Which table is in better condition. You’ll like either. Which table plays better? If you are not a fine tuned player you won’t really know the difference. Do you have an experienced mechanic to set the table up? That’ll make the difference. The GC can be refinished. It will last for generations. It is world class. If you have the time and money get the IV and have it refinished. I have a mahogany IV. If fashion matters the GC has to be the nicest table ever. There is something about it.
 
tomatoshooter said:
I love the GCIVs. I don't know anything about red label Diamonds. I think the GCIVs have recessed pocket liners and the corner castings seem to be more flush with the tops of the rails, at least on the ones I've played on. I believe the tops of the rails are formica, I've never cared for that style of fake woodgrain that you find on the GCs. I don't know what would be involved to paint the GC black., but it's probably more than a couple of cans of Krylon. I'm sure you'll like how the GC plays, if you can handle the aesthetics.
Click to expand...
Painting Formica is a bad idea.
 
I opened and ran the first ever room with the Red Label Diamonds in Denver, early 90's.
Tony, of Tony's Hustlers room table set up man installed em all, beautiful, till yah banked a ball or came off the cushion.
There were about 16 of em, and room is still there. Rack Em, Iliff and Hampden in Denver. This was the first room to ever have these, I think anywhere?
I heard its now a flaky place, so if you call any feedback may be suspect.
If the rails, like another had said, are NOT redone to current tables standards, the table will not play correctly at all.
If you never hit a cushion, they play great.
Make sure the rails have been rebooted to the proper specs and you'll be happy.
 
Diamonds, from my experience, have deeper pockets, so they "pocket" differently. Not better or worse, just different. Practice on what you are going to play leagues or tournaments on.
 
snatch said:
Gold Crown IV vs Red Label Diamond
Hi, Would like to know which table is better play, better deal ect? Both are 9 ft, from the pictures both look in good condition.


Gold Crown IV in brown with bronze trim, $2700 plus $600 to move(sold from individual) or Red label Diamond in rose wood, installed with new 860 $4k (from a local dealer).

The GC has adjustable feet which i feel i need for my playing area(its in a basement with uneven cement)not sure if the diamonds adjust. New felt and bumpers seem to cost about another 1100 for the GC if it needs it. From research players seem to love the play of this pool table. The gold crown IV seems to be the staple of the GCs. It being the last USA built one and having adjustable feet is a huge bonus.

From reading the forum people seem to dislike the red labels play. If i wanted to transform a red label to blue label, it would cost about 2.2k with leveling kit, maybe more if I need a mechanic to install(if this is still possible). Probably still will not play like a blue label. Doubt i ever would do it if i went with this pool table.

This is my first table btw. I really wanted a black pool table. I like the bronze trim of the GC, but can't stand the brown. I ask if its possible to change color by painting/staining and/or buying black new rails?
Click to expand...
Personally, there is no contest….I’m taking the Diamond.
That rosewood color is probably diamond wood, which you can’t get any more…the factory that made them was destroyed in a fire.
We have four Diamond 9-foot and four GC ONES…the players all want the Diamonds.
One Diamond is the latest, the other three are older red labels….as they age, the red labels tone down, they play like blue labels.
…..it‘s our 7-footers that have rails that are too fast.

Brunswick lost me by the GCIII….pretty sure they weren’t made in the USA…they were a disaster.
The GCIVs were not well made…a friend installed ten of them in a local room…he had to add wood on them to stop sagging…..
…..Alex Pagulayan said some dead spots in the rubber showed up within two years.

Basically, a Diamond is a GC with some bugs taken out…things that mar your cue and make your hands bleed.
 
I had a black GC4, the table plays very close to a Blue label. I also don't care for the fake wood grain of most GC tables. Red labels are all over the place, I've played on some that banked so weird they were gaff tables.
My GC4 was 20 years old and never drooped, but according to RKC they were susceptible to that and there's a very simple fix for that. The Red label is worth about $3000, then you can have the rails modified or buy the blue top and the leveling system and end up with basically a new table for 6 grand.
 
jtompilot said:
I had a black GC4, the table plays very close to a Blue label. I also don't care for the fake wood grain of most GC tables. Red labels are all over the place, I've played on some that banked so weird they were gaff tables.
My GC4 was 20 years old and never drooped, but according to RKC they were susceptible to that and there's a very simple fix for that. The Red label is worth about $3000, then you can have the rails modified or buy the blue top and the leveling system and end up with basically a new table for 6 grand.
Click to expand...
The Unforgiven! You should have kept the Black GC. A gloss 4 is a lifetime partnership and you broke the bond. How do you sleep at night?
 
pt109 said:
Personally, there is no contest….I’m taking the Diamond.
That rosewood color is probably diamond wood, which you can’t get any more…the factory that made them was destroyed in a fire.
We have four Diamond 9-foot and four GC ONES…the players all want the Diamonds.
One Diamond is the latest, the other three are older red labels….as they age, the red labels tone down, they play like blue labels.
…..it‘s our 7-footers that have rails that are too fast.

Brunswick lost me by the GCIII….pretty sure they weren’t made in the USA…they were a disaster.
The GCIVs were not well made…a friend installed ten of them in a local room…he had to add wood on them to stop sagging…..
…..Alex Pagulayan said some dead spots in the rubber showed up within two years.

Basically, a Diamond is a GC with some bugs taken out…things that mar your cue and make your hands bleed.
Click to expand...
You are a very respected poster
so i have to really think about your response
Because for me the red label is so goofy ( the ones i have played on) makes any other table the better choice
Jmho
Icbw
 
GC IV is the best table ever made.

I've played on 1-6, Had several Anniversaries and played all of the Diamonds.

Ok there. I said it. And I don't take it back.

Nostalgia from growing up in the 90s? Maybe, but I absolutely love hitting a ball on that table.
 
bbb said:
You are a very respected poster
so i have to really think about your response
Because for me the red label is so goofy ( the ones i have played on) makes any other table the better choice
Jmho
Icbw
Click to expand...
I just checked our 9-foot Diamonds and GCs…..they both lag about the same…about 4.5 lengths.
….the 7-foot Diamonds are still a full length faster.
….the Gold Crowns, BTW, are from the 60s…with original rubber…..Brunswick Superspeed, now, is not the same quality, and doesn’t
quite fit the old GCs.
In my prime, almost every good thing that happened to me in snooker or pool was on a Monarch, Anniversary, or Gold Crown…
…so when I’m bad mouthing Brunswick, I’m not happy about it….John Brunswick must be rolling over in his grave.
….the only tables I’ve ever owned were Anniversaries
 
snatch said:
Gold Crown IV vs Red Label Diamond
Hi, Would like to know which table is better play, better deal ect? Both are 9 ft, from the pictures both look in good condition.


Gold Crown IV in brown with bronze trim, $2700 plus $600 to move(sold from individual) or Red label Diamond in rose wood, installed with new 860 $4k (from a local dealer).

The GC has adjustable feet which i feel i need for my playing area(its in a basement with uneven cement)not sure if the diamonds adjust. New felt and bumpers seem to cost about another 1100 for the GC if it needs it. From research players seem to love the play of this pool table. The gold crown IV seems to be the staple of the GCs. It being the last USA built one and having adjustable feet is a huge bonus.

From reading the forum people seem to dislike the red labels play. If i wanted to transform a red label to blue label, it would cost about 2.2k with leveling kit, maybe more if I need a mechanic to install(if this is still possible). Probably still will not play like a blue label. Doubt i ever would do it if i went with this pool table.

This is my first table btw. I really wanted a black pool table. I like the bronze trim of the GC, but can't stand the brown. I ask if its possible to change color by painting/staining and/or buying black new rails?
Click to expand...

Bearing in mind that I don't know your area, both of these tables are at the upper end of pricing for something you may not like/want. The GC is going to be pretty expensive by the time you do something about the brown rails, the red label is risky before you play on it a bit. You may be investing considerably more than the original price. Playing red labels and blue labels in the same place was no comparison until the red labels were upgraded. I think many buyers will be a little shy of the red label even after it is upgraded if you ever want to sell.

The "fix" for the drooping GCIV is as simple as some flat bar and bolts. Not rocket science. However, you hate the brown.

Neither of these tables are at a price that makes them a buy to jump on accepting something you might not like without a good bit more money dumped in them. I advise sitting back and waiting. I was having back issues and unable to move fast on a very nice table I could have bought for $200 a couple years ago! Beautiful table, never been in commercial use, that I could have spent another thousand or two on and still been happy. I have also seen some beautiful tables not needing work on them other than moving and I would probably have new cloth put on while moving in the one to two thousand dollar range.

Hard to wait when you have the itch and the dollars but I wouldn't buy either table if I were you. Painting anything black is expensive. When I had auto body shops painting other colors started at $600-$800 in my shop other than some specialty paints, painting black started at $3000! Nothing less than perfect prep under black is going to make somebody happy regardless of what they think beforehand.

I wouldn't buy a color table I hate, I wouldn't buy a red label for much over a thousand. Ultimately you are the one that has to make the decision but I would wait awhile. Deals you like a lot better will come along and chances are that you aren't going to be able to sell either of these tables easily for what you are paying for them.

A final note, about the adjustable feet. You aren't going to be moving the table often so some nicely made solid pads to sit the feet on work just fine and can be had pretty cheaply. My last table was on a slab with a lot of slope. I had adjustable feet, not enough adjustment to deal with my slab. I fired up my wood lathe and made four custom bases for the legs in an hour or so that nobody ever noticed. Wood, metal, or high grade plastic will all work and as a one time deal the expense is minor as is the droop fix.

Hu
 
GoldCrown said:
The Unforgiven! You should have kept the Black GC. A gloss 4 is a lifetime partnership and you broke the bond. How do you sleep at night?
Click to expand...
I didn’t have the gloss one.

My GC4 came with the bearing plates under the legs so tweaking the legs were easy with a rubber oil filter strap
 
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