Golf vs. Pool - Revisited

unknownpro said:
Tiger can skip strokes by hitting the ball further. You can't do that in pool, skip the 5 because you hit the 4 so well.
unknownpro


Tiger can't skip or save a stroke by hitting the ball further if he hits it off line in the rough or Out Of Bounds...he'll actually ADD strokes by sometimes trying to hit it further. It would be like scratching or jumping the CB off the table.

A hell of a break can allow you to skip a LOT of balls. You might only be playing 5 or 6 ball and many times 7 ball instead of 9 ball.
 
unknownpro said:
I don't play golf, so excuse my ignorance, but what about comparing the top skill levels using an accu-stats type rating. A top pool player will easily beat the 10-ball ghost, on very tight tables. I don't know how many more balls Efren could put up and still win. Beating the 9-ball ghost requires basically a 900 accu-stats rating. The shots may be easier but you can't win without making all the balls and getting shape constantly. More balls added greatly increases the difficulty, even though the rating goes up slowly from there. Tiger can skip strokes by hitting the ball further. You can't do that in pool, skip the 5 because you hit the 4 so well.

Number of racks run is so dependent upon the rack that it's not really comparable to anything. However I was told by a friend of Earls that he ran over 20 racks of 9-ball (no ghost) many years ago, before perfect racks.

unknownpro

If you have a big break in 9-ball you can make 2,3 even 4 balls on the break...Don't you get to then skip those shots???

There are tons of freaks like Tiger out there with Big drives. They do not get to skip the all important approach shot and even more important the putting.....But a big drive is just as important as a big break in 9-ball...
 
JAM said:
LOL! :D I've never played golf in my previous life, but have been to a few events where I got to sit in the golf cart and enjoy the scenery! :)
JAM

JAM
You and my wife would make a pair. She doesn't golf so she sits in the golf cart and enjoys the scenery. I played golf the day before both my sons were born. And she was with me - in the golf cart enjoying the scenery. Funny, both my sons play jam up golf but not pool. Maybe we should have been at the pool room the day before they were born?
Jack
www.johnmaddencues.com
 
BRKNRUN said:
So…. I take it you have not had the opportunity to read the slope of a green from 100 yards out and hit a precisely placed wedge shot past the pin, have it check once and spin back 10-15 feet stopping right next to the hole.....or hit a low punch wedge into a green that hits, skips once and stops dead on a dime right next to a hole......or hit that purely struck 5 iron 190 over water that rises like a jet on take off and then when it reaches its apex, floats like it a has a parachute back down to the green and sits right next to the pin.....

Pool and Golf are very similar in that the better you get....the more exciting the game becomes......People that don't know how to play pool (as good as yourself) might make the same mistake your making knocking the game of Golf...

They both can be very boring and very exciting....Some golfers play 18 holes of golf and take 90+ strokes just so they can hit that "one" magic shot...but that one shot is what keeps them coming back......Just like some pool players keep playing rack after rack....just so they can break and run that "one" rack....That is what keeps them coming back... JMO

I agree with you. I have had the opportunity to read greens and have spun balls backward into the cup. My best nine was a 36 (1 over, bogeyed the last hole :eek: ) and my best eighteen was a 79 (+7) on what I call "bogey player" type courses, typical public courses...no idea of the rating. I still remember that last putt...it was downhill about 6 or 7 feet and broke from left to right...it just caught the edge of the cup and dropped. :D That was my peak, about 1984 or so.

Pool is easier on the body, I think, but at least as mentally challenging as golf.

Jeff Livingston
 
fxskater said:
Yes i realize the difficulty of a PGA setup, but its not as dramatic as your making it, in every tournament. There are a few that are setup incredibly difficult, that would add maybe 10 strokes to your game, compared to playing the same course not setup for the PGA. But i would say most of them are not set up that much more difficult, maybe 1 or 2 strokes, these are the courses that you see new winners on. The US Open has to be the absolute most difficult setup. You'll even hear guys say that its unfair and setup to embarrass the players.


I happened to have a temporary job 20 years ago at the PGA Championship at Cherry Hills. That summer I was shooting in the mid and low '70's a lot on local public courses. Not all that hard, but not ridiculously easy courses. I had shot some rounds like 73, 74, 75 on average or maybe easy courses. I didn't think I could break 90 on the course they played that championship on, particularly Sunday when the greens were about dying. I think I could have shot in the '90's somewhere if I played conservatively and didn't get greedy. If I shot something like 88 I would have been very happy. Club pros often can't break 80 on their home course when it is set up for the championships.

As to the run of the mill tour course, you underestimate how hard they are from the tips and how tough the pins are now. Figure most handicap players to be 12-18 shots worse on a tour course from the tips. maybe more. What do you think a guy who shoots 83 at his home course would shoot at Castle Pines from the tips? Counting all the shots? I say anything less than 100 is OK. An 18 handicapper has no shot. What about Torrey Pines? From the tips that is a beast now. How does the average player like 475 yard uphill par 4's into the wind?

I have not played that many tour courses FWIW. But here is one example. After not playing much I played at PGA West from some forward tees. I think there were two sets of tees behind us. Tough tees, and the tips. I shot a count every shot no mulligan dead honest 92. I could have shot something like 88 pretty easily by eliminating a couple of bad mistakes and short game errors. From the tips I might never have finished. I'm not that good at hitting driver to par 3's over water. ;) That course is harder than the average tour course, buit was set up much easier. The rough wasn't bad and the pins were for regular play.
 
sonia said:
POOL ALWAYS HAS A STATIC ENVIRONMENT, IE, THE TABLE. ALWAYS A PERFECTLY FLAT SURFACE, ALWAYS THE SAME DIMENSIONS. NO BUNKERS, OR SAND, NEVER RAINS ON THE TABLE. NO WALKING MILES. CADDY HOLDS AN UMBRELLA OVER YOUR HEARD. NO TREES TO CONTEND WITH. NO WIND BLOWS UP TO SPOIL YOUR SHOT. GREAT LAND O GOSHEN, WHAT THE HELL MORE DO YOU WANT. COMPARED TO GOLF, POOL IS A WALK IN THE PARK. A NO BRAINER. A PIECE OF CAKE. POOL IS THE SAME AIM FOR ANY SHOT, OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER, FOR ANY ANGLE OF CUT. MIND-NUMBING. JUST STARTED TO NOD OFF THINKING ABOUT IT. MENTAL STATE FOR POOL? DORMANT. MIGHT AS WELL BE ASSIGNED A RUBBER ROOM BY A WHITE-COATED ATTENDANT. SNOOZE TIME. FORTY WINKS.


HAL
Thank you, Hal. You said what I have been poorly posting in this thread!
 
JPB said:
I would point out that golfers with handicaps much higher than 6 break 80 some of the time. I don't play much anymore and struggle with my game. I have a 12 handicap. I do have some old scores in there. This year I have a 76 from the men's tees at my club and a 78 from the back tees. Not the hardest course, but water and OB are around. Also about 3 really tough holes from the back tees. I should be lower than a 12, but I would guess the 6's at my club put up mostly rounds in the mid to high 70's. Their best rounds will be around par. I shoot a lot of 81's and such as a miserable 12.


As to the general topic, I have posted this before, but here goes again. I like both games. Both games are hard. I think golf is harder. All the precision, all the mental stuff, and more demanding in terms of physical ability. Golf really comprises 3 games. Full shots, wedges/chips/pitches, and putting. Each is like its own sport in some ways. But both are hard and I don't knock either game. Pool has some advantages, like I can play in my basement.
I meant to say "break 80 consistently". I agree with what you say about a 10 to 12 handicapper throwing the occasional sub-80 on the scorecard.
 
chefjeff said:
The one you don't want to play.

Jeff Livingston
I "want" and "do" play both. You got a point, Dalai Smartass? :rolleyes:
 
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[. I think I could have shot in the '90's somewhere if I played conservatively and didn't get greedy. If I shot something like 88 I would have been very happy. Club pros often can't break 80 on their home course when it is set up for the championships.

No question about it. As a 12 handicap, I would be LUCKY to break 105 on a real pro course, set up for the PGA....but, to my earlier point, you play golf like you shoot pool, doesn't Strickland and Archer shoot around scratch? Also, I'm pretty sure Hopkins, though he told me he sandbags a little, is a scratch too.
Bob
 
doitforthegame said:
[. I think I could have shot in the '90's somewhere if I played conservatively and didn't get greedy. If I shot something like 88 I would have been very happy. Club pros often can't break 80 on their home course when it is set up for the championships.

No question about it. As a 12 handicap, I would be LUCKY to break 105 on a real pro course, set up for the PGA....but, to my earlier point, you play golf like you shoot pool, doesn't Strickland and Archer shoot around scratch? Also, I'm pretty sure Hopkins, though he told me he sandbags a little, is a scratch too.
Bob


I was better than a twelve then. :p I hate playing as bad as I do now. But not enough to go hit chips for two hours or anything radical like that.
 
Many people are blessed with a great golf swing. It's something they are born with. Becoming a scratch golfer is easy for these lucky ones. The only way to run a hundred balls in 14.1 is hours and hours of table time. You are not born a great billiard player, you earn it. Usually at the expense of other important things in your life. Golf and pool are my passions, and I spend entirely to much time on both. But, boy is it fun.
TommyT
 
doitforthegame said:
..but, to my earlier point, you play golf like you shoot pool, doesn't Strickland and Archer shoot around scratch? Also, I'm pretty sure Hopkins, though he told me he sandbags a little, is a scratch too.
Bob

Their "golf equivalent" would be much better than scratch.
 
BRKNRUN said:
If you have a big break in 9-ball you can make 2,3 even 4 balls on the break...Don't you get to then skip those shots???

There are tons of freaks like Tiger out there with Big drives. They do not get to skip the all important approach shot and even more important the putting.....But a big drive is just as important as a big break in 9-ball...

Of course you are right. But I think if you compare the games, you should compare the best players. If pool were played like golf, say as a ghost man tournament with each player getting the same opportunities, Efren would probably dominate, but you still would not really get to see him play to his abilities if you are playing 9-ball. Put 15 balls on the table and you would see an entirely different level of pool. One which maybe would show 5 times the skill. Up to 14 trees on the table, 6 sandtraps, must make every shot, no matter what the lie. Efren ran 3 racks (in a row, no ball in hand) of rotation in Baltimore practicing and put up his stick. I guess he didn't want to break Fast Larry's record. How easy is that?

unknownpro
 
You and my wife would make a pair. She doesn't golf so she sits in the golf cart and enjoys the scenery. I played golf the day before both my sons were born. And she was with me - in the golf cart
Jack
www.johnmaddencues.com[/QUOTE]

Jack, Jack, Jack...I forgive you for this serious and disturbing error in judgment only due to the condition of your wife. Because of that it went from being a pathetic thing to a great manly thing, since you got to play your round of golf even though you wife was getting ready to go into labor!

Bob
ps- given the choice between going to the golf course with my wife and having my teeth pulled without novicane I wouuuff choof da latta...oops, sorry have to put my teeth back in.

pss-for those of you that feel the need to respond to this blatant sexist post, I can save you some time. Your response will be like....yada, yada, yada, I love it when my wife tells me she is going to the golf course with me....yada, yada, yada, as soon as I finish dusting and putting away the laundry we go.....yada, yada...and after we stop at the fabric store and pick out something cute for the new curtains we are making......how's that?
 
fxskater said:
Yes i realize the difficulty of a PGA setup, but its not as dramatic as your making it, in every tournament. There are a few that are setup incredibly difficult, that would add maybe 10 strokes to your game, compared to playing the same course not setup for the PGA. But i would say most of them are not set up that much more difficult, maybe 1 or 2 strokes, these are the courses that you see new winners on. The US Open has to be the absolute most difficult setup. You'll even hear guys say that its unfair and setup to embarrass the players.

They speed up the greens quite often. I've played in Arizona on a Monday after a Buy.com/Nationwide/whateverit'scallednow pro event, and the greens were extremely fast. I picked up on several holes after 4 putts. My guess is that for a beginning amateur, playing on a TYPICAL PGA Tour tournament setup course, they would see a significant increase in their score, a LOT more than 1 or 2 strokes, loosing strokes mostly on the greens. You really cannot appreciate the difference until you play on a course or two set up that way. If you want to get a greater understanding, build yourself a stimp-meter, test the greens you play on, and compare them to numbers for tournament golf courses.

Dave
 
Golf is so difficult that they use a measure of how bad you played to keep score. PAR = An acceptable degree of missing.
 
unknownpro said:
Of course you are right. But I think if you compare the games, you should compare the best players. If pool were played like golf, say as a ghost man tournament with each player getting the same opportunities, Efren would probably dominate, but you still would not really get to see him play to his abilities if you are playing 9-ball. Put 15 balls on the table and you would see an entirely different level of pool. One which maybe would show 5 times the skill. Up to 14 trees on the table, 6 sandtraps, must make every shot, no matter what the lie. Efren ran 3 racks (in a row, no ball in hand) of rotation in Baltimore practicing and put up his stick. I guess he didn't want to break Fast Larry's record. How easy is that?

unknownpro

Every golfer does get a opportunity to play the hole...They don't always get the same opportunity to make a birdie or eagle....Temp / Wind / Green Conditions tend to change throughout the day...(sometimes very quickly)

I don't think Efren is worried about proving that he is ten times better than FL. I am pretty sure most already know.... ;)

I still think you can't really compare the game to game...too many differences...

You can compare "parts" of each game... (putting stroke / pool stroke) (course management / table management) (playing the pressure shot / playing the pressure shot)...thats about it as far as I am concerned, and each are equally difficult in their own way...
 
Fish story? I havent made one thing up. You think i gotta tell a tall tell about shooting an 89? Hell if it was bullshit i woulda fudged it into a 79. Maybe chech the definition of FISH STORY. It is my opinion that i could get to be a better golfer faster than a better pool player. If anyone wants to send me $5000 for membership at the 12th Best Course in Canada, (Salmon Arm Championship, last years rating, not sure about this year) we will see what i can do. Maybe i was wrong about the 2-3 strokes off your game on a pga setup course. We have a course here that is a par 35 9 hole course called Sun Seekers Ridge. It gets 0 water unless it rains. All the fairways and greens are ROCK HARD. If you drive a ball dead perfect up the left side, and hit what was once fringe on the left, the ball has a good chance of bouncing all the way across the fairway, into the rough, through the rough, into the trees. The greens are rock hard, as well as being TINY. I would say the average green there is under 1500 square feet. In a good round i lose about 6 balls, shooting somewhere in the high 40's to low 50's. I do not have a stimp meter, but i am sure that the speed is consistent with Shinnickock in 2004. I have no problem landing and sticking on these greens, even hitting a few birdy's. I have terrible putting days, and i have good putting days. The speed of the green, does not affect whether im having a good putting day or a bad one. My mental state, confidence, and Self 1 can ruin my putting. i will say that i have never played an actual PGA setup course, but i dont think the speed of the greens would hurt too bad, trying to hard would. The main problem with my swing is one of the reasons i dont have trouble stopping the ball. I hit the ball way too high. I can only hit my 3 iron around 200, once in a while hitting it 215. My 4 Iron is good for 180-190 yrds and my 5 iron only goes 165-180. I get the ball up high but it doesnt go that far. I would have extreme difficulty hitting long shots into the green, but i think i could get it close enough to have a 7 iron Chip that i could get close enough to make boegy with. Anyways, maybe golf is easier, maybe it isnt. Maybe I'm delusional to think that improvements can be made faster in golf that in Pool, but in my experience, I am right. I spend about 10 times as much time on the pool table than on a golf course, and don't make the improvements nearly as fast.

BTW: White Wolf, size has nothing to do with ability in golf. Look at the stats of the most accurate driver on tour. His average drive is 275 yrds. You don't have to hit it 300+ off the tee to play on tour. I think it was Corey Pavin whos average drive was around 250-260 not that long ago. How many bodybuilders do you see on tour? Its about speed of the swing and accuracy of that hit. Being a bigger person may let you hit the ball alot farther, but its not a requirement. Before you mention all the tour players working out, OF COURSE THEY DO. With the guys they comptere against you need every possible advantage you can have. Most the European Pool Pro's work out alot too.

PSS: The other thing that bothers me. After only playing 8-10 championship courses i am in no way saying i am a great golfer. But to shoot an 89 on a course as difficult as Hyde, I'm convinced with practice i could be challenging par on the Big Courses within 3 years.
 
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