GOOD TIMING in Pool … What Does It Mean?

[tomatoshooter]

I switched to varying my stroke length with shot speed,

I recently started doing that, too. It's not fully on line yet but I instantly saw the potential. I'm finding the most difficult part of speed control is knowing how much I need. I tend to forget how much energy the cue ball gives to the object ball versus how much is retained so I'll send the cue ball all around the table on a thinner cut and then shoot a thicker cut too softly.

 

[Fatboy]

I recently started doing that, too. It's not fully on line yet but I instantly saw the potential. I'm finding the most difficult part of speed control is knowing how much I need. I tend to forget how much energy the cue ball gives to the object ball versus how much is retained so I'll send the cue ball all around the table on a thinner cut and then shoot a thicker cut too softly.

Takes time,

 

[Poolmanis]

I recently started doing that, too. It's not fully on line yet but I instantly saw the potential. I'm finding the most difficult part of speed control is knowing how much I need. I tend to forget how much energy the cue ball gives to the object ball versus how much is retained so I'll send the cue ball all around the table on a thinner cut and then shoot a thicker cut too softly.

First step to improve speed control is realizing that! Now when you aware that you will improve fast. Just keep observing and learn
I give one simple rule of thumb to get started. If cut is thinner than half ball you probably get more cueball speed than you think. And when it is a lot fuller than half ball you need to probably hit little firmer than you think.

 

[dr_dave]

I had coaching session with lil sister yesterday and recommended to her this video. I think she can find answers to couple problems she still have with speed control problems. You 2 nailed illustrating timing perfectly.

If she wants more help with stroke, speed control, and other important fundamentals, have her check out the videos and info here:

fundamentals tutorial

stroke "best practices"

speed control advice
​

TinMan looked like Efren when he did shoot de-acclerated shot HAHA.

Funny. Demetrius was actually terrible at doing stuff wrong. All of the "bad" examples took many attempts with me yelling at him to be worse. Sometimes it can be tough working with good players!

 

[dr_dave]

I recently started doing that, too. It's not fully on line yet but I instantly saw the potential. I'm finding the most difficult part of speed control is knowing how much I need. I tend to forget how much energy the cue ball gives to the object ball versus how much is retained so I'll send the cue ball all around the table on a thinner cut and then shoot a thicker cut too softly.

Check out the video below. Some of the stuff might be helpful.

 

[tomatoshooter]

Check out the video below. Some of the stuff might be helpful.

I did and it was! Thank you for all the great videos. It will still take a while to incorporate in my game. It seems like my ball pocketing just jumped up, I need to solidify that before I really explore the other areas of my game. I'll work on them but shooting accuracy is the priority for the next week.

 

[dr_dave]

I did and it was! Thank you for all the great videos. It will still take a while to incorporate in my game. It seems like my ball pocketing just jumped up, I need to solidify that before I really explore the other areas of my game. I'll work on them but shooting accuracy is the priority for the next week.

I'm glad to hear some of my stuff has helped your game.

 

[7stud]

Very interesting stuff. I think my timing is fairly good on most shots, but I know that I'm rushing it on longer backspin shots.

How are you rushing it? Are you not pausing? Or, are you doing this:

I looked at that, and I thought, "Perfect form." I'm flabbergasted that Dr. Dave calls that a rushed stroke. To me that looks like someone getting the maximum power out of their stroke, e.g. a long shot needing lots of draw. It seems to me that the longer you wait to start accelerating after the start of the forward stroke, the less power you are going to get. Dr. Dave seems to be saying that you should start the forward stroke slowly, e.g. at a constant speed/no acceleration, then begin accelerating through the CB--which seems like it could create a herky-jerky stroke.

Why shouldn't the perfect stroke be: backstroke, pause, then accelerate through the cue ball? If you pause do you have a "smooth transition"? Or, does a "smooth transition" require something else?

 

[dr_dave]

How are you rushing it? Are you not pausing? Or, are you doing this:

I looked at that, and I thought, "Perfect form." I'm flabbergasted that Dr. Dave calls that a rushed stroke. To me that looks like someone getting the maximum power out of their stroke, e.g. a long shot needing lots of draw. It seems to me that the longer you wait to start accelerating after the start of the forward stroke, the less power you are going to get. Dr. Dave seems to be saying that you should start the forward stroke slowly, e.g. at a constant speed/no acceleration, then accelerate through the CB--which seems like it could create a herky-jerky stroke.

Why shouldn't the perfect stroke be: backstroke, pause, then accelerate through the cue ball? If you pause do you have a "smooth transition"? Or, does a "smooth transition" require something else?

You don't need a "deliberate pause," but it is important to not rush the transition. It does not help to go back fast. For a power shot, the acceleration should start as soon as possible with the speed increasing gradually all the way up to the CB (where the speed is usually maxing out before impact).

 

[7stud]

You don't need a "deliberate pause," but it is important to not rush the transition. It does not help to go back fast. For a power shot, the acceleration should start as soon as possible with the speed increasing gradually all the way up to the CB (where the speed is usually maxing out before impact).

Thanks for the response, Dr. Dave.

In the clip I posted, Tin Man draws the cue back slowly, and the slow motion shows that he pauses slightly, then he begins his forward stroke. Why do you consider that a rushed stroke? In the video, you say "the forward stroke is rushed", but you don't say why it is rushed. Slow back swing, pause, forward stroke: where's the rush?

 

[dr_dave]

Thanks for the response, Dr. Dave.

In the clip I posted, Tin Man draws the cue back slowly, and the slow motion shows that he pauses slightly, then he begins his forward stroke. Why do you consider that a rushed stroke? You say "the forward stroke is rushed", but you don't say why it is rushed.

Sorry for the confusion.

It is difficult to see the "rushing" in the slow-motion clip, but he does not accelerate smoothly. He tries to create too much speed too early. This can result in less final speed than a smoothly accelerating stroke, because the initial "rush" creates tension, which can limit the amount of acceleration possible. It is just like a golf drive. You don't want to tense up by attempting to create too much speed too early. It has the opposite effect of what is desired.

I hope that makes sense.

 

[SmoothStroke]

Many top players do this (not just on long safeties, but all shots), and they seem to master it well. I used to do this also, but when I switched to varying my stroke length with shot speed, still using similar smooth acceleration on every shot, my speed control got better immediately. For those who are interested, I cover this in more detail here:

speed control advice​

 

[SmoothStroke]

Many top players do this (not just on long safeties, but all shots), and they seem to master it well. I used to do this also, but when I switched to varying my stroke length with shot speed, still using similar smooth acceleration on every shot, my speed control got better immediately. For those who are interested, I cover this in more detail here:

speed control advice​

You may have seen one of my 700 posts over the years about stroke technique and timing.
I find Short Stroke, Mid Stroke, and Long Stroke technique, combined with the proper length bridge, for each stroke, is difficult to beat, a recipe for success.

Many players posses only one technique. and they're missing out, especially long strokers.
It has cost a Hall Of Fame Player World Championships, because he lacks short stroke technique.
He couldn't control the mass of the cue with his long stroke for small movement.
He ended up short on the 50 yard line a few times, 2nd place.

Combine 3 stroke techniques, with stroke drills, and table length incriments of 3 and 4.
A player will develop beautiful timing, a very smooth stroke, Their speed control will increase dramatically in a shorter time.
The swing arm will naturally find the speed and timing for long and in between distance.
It becomes second nature, with very little thought.

Only a few stroke drills/shots are needed.
Stroke drills are not shot drills, the shots are automatically built in.
Not the shot drills in books I see players practicing for hours, and after 2-3 years have no game.

Breaking the table into 4 quadrants, 3 stroke techniques, and stroke drills is all it takes.
Once they know the quadrants, and stroke technique, they become more comfortable striking the cue ball, and speed happy.
When they are comfortable striking the cue ball with stroke and speed, its off to the races.
To repeat, It becomes second nature.
A player is born.

A monkey can learn, diamonds, kicks, stance, grips, bridges eyes,etc.
It's in all the books and is easily learned, easily. How much can a stroke and timing read?
Stroke technique and cue ball knowledge is the name of the game.
Timing comes along for the ride.

Best:SS

 

[hotelyorba]

How are you rushing it? Are you not pausing?

For me, it's like dr. Dave says: I tend to create too much speed too early. It feels like I force the cue forward with too much power, which results in lower precision of cue tip placement. Which usually means I hit the CB too high and that results in a real hard hit but no backspin.

 

[dr_dave]

For me, it's like dr. Dave says: I tend to create too much speed too early. It feels like I force the cue forward with too much power, which results in lower precision of cue tip placement.

... and you probably get less cue speed than you would get with a long and smoothly accelerating stroke anyway.

Which usually means I hit the CB too high and that results in a real hard hit but no backspin.

Hitting too high is usually due to elbow drop before CB contact. Many people move their shoulder and drop the elbow when they are attempting to forcibly add too much power (instead of trusting a more relaxed and smoothly accelerating stroke).

 

[7stud]

... and you probably get less cue speed than you would get with a long and smoothly accelerating stroke anyway.

That sure sounds good. Do you have any proof of that?

 

[dr_dave]

That sure sounds good. Do you have any proof of that?

Nope, other than lots of anecdotal evidence from pro pool players and golfers with relaxed and smoothly accelerating grips and strokes.

 

[Pin]

Great video, thanks both!

I've always thought stroke timing has a big influence in how much spin you get on the ball. Would you agree with that? (And presumably that the smooth accelerating stroke gives the most spin?)

Timing seems like a difficult topic to teach - hard to see it with the eye watching a stroke, not all that easy to describe exactly what it feels like, and difficult to show the difference it makes to a shot's outcome. This video is the best description I've seen, by some distance.

 

[Pin]

Combine 3 stroke techniques, with stroke drills, and table length incriments of 3 and 4.
...
Breaking the table into 4 quadrants, 3 stroke techniques, and stroke drills is all it takes.

Do you explain this in more detail anywhere? (like an old post you could point me to?)

 

[dr_dave]

Great video, thanks both!

Thank you, and you're welcome.

I've always thought stroke timing has a big influence in how much spin you get on the ball. Would you agree with that? (And presumably that the smooth accelerating stroke gives the most spin?)

The amount of spin depends only on the angle and speed of the cue and the tip contact point on the CB. The stroke "type" is immaterial; although it is easier to be accurate and consistent with a stroke with "good timing." For more info, see:

“type” or “quality” of stroke​

Timing seems like a difficult topic to teach - hard to see it with the eye watching a stroke, not all that easy to describe exactly what it feels like, and difficult to show the difference it makes to a shot's outcome. This video is the best description I've seen, by some distance.

Thanks again.