got a million questions...

One more suggestion. When you are watching a technique that you are considering adding to your game, try also to imagine what doing that technique would feel like even if it is some kind of system. For example, during your study you read that a cue ball and object ball three diamonds apart can be struck with one tip of draw at a medium speed and this will give you 1 ft of draw. Ask yourself, "what would that feel like."

I hope this makes sense.
 
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Neil said:
Then you should have said that to start with, instead of the obvious slam that you used on purpose. But, you just had to get in that "dig" as usual. As far as me missing thngs other than the obvious, at least I get the obvious. Maybe someday you can say the same.:wink:
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Neil, when you stop your sarcastic nasty responses to my posts, I won't be so harsh in my responses to you. It's as simple as that. Show me some respect and you'll get that respect back.
 
FranCrimi said:
Neil, when you stop your sarcastic nasty responses to my posts, I won't be so harsh in my responses to you. It's as simple as that. Show me some respect and you'll get that respect back.
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Fine, I just ask you to stop making the sarcastic posts to start with. Then you won't get the sarcastic responses in return. Respect is a two way street.
 
a lot of satisfied players have read it cover to cover.

This is great advice, I read 'The Inner Game of Tennis' back when I was actually competing through the mid west playing tennis.......'Zen in the Art of Archery' is still my favorite book to apply to pool, and a lot of satisfied players have read it cover to cover.


(((Satori))) said:
Timothy Galloway, in his book The Inner Game of Tennis, talks about the proper way to learn and he says something like "you don't really know something until you know what it feels like, and the only way to feel it is through experience." This means that nothing can replace actual physical practice.


However, through books and videos you can get insight into the experience of others and take that to the table with you. Dont however take their knowledge as "the way" but mearly something for you to explore to see if it helps you. An example of this would be if you want to know how to draw a ball precisely one foot back, then ultimately to know this you are going to have to draw a ball one foot back and feel that feeling and then after more practice replicate that feeling over and over, then you know it. During the process though you can spend time when you are not at the table reading or watching videos to get an idea of what you can experiment with the next time you practice.
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(((Satori))) said:
Timothy Galloway, in his book The Inner Game of Tennis, talks about the proper way to learn and he says something like "you don't really know something until you know what it feels like.

I have inner game of tennis on audio, i listen to it all the time. I have 3 selves self 3 has to tell self 2 to trust self 1 lol. Self 1 likes to make self 2 sweat and self 2 despises self 3 for reading the inner game of tennis. Great book...
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lastdimetaker said:
I have inner game of tennis on audio, i listen to it all the time. I have 3 selves self 3 has to tell self 2 to trust self 1 lol. Self 1 likes to make self 2 sweat and self 2 despises self 3 for reading the inner game of tennis. Great book...
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Thats pretty funny but did you know that the early copies of TIGOT did in fact mention a self 3? It was mentioned in a way that leaves you to figure out what self 3 is and its no longer in the prints they make today.

When I was a kid I had a real good player that took me under his wing sort of and he gave me the assignment to read that book. He quizzed me about what I believed self 3 to be and I never satisfied him with my answers and he never told me his thoughts, he always responded with "read it again" or "that's for you to figure out." Not too long ago I bought a copy to read it again to see how I interpreted self 3 now and to my surprise it wasn't in there.
 
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Thank you Fran for your response.

I wish I had an old copy so I could read more than what is written on the site I linked. Gallwey is certainly talking about passion here in the majority of his writings but he also says this:

"When one finds one’s way to the direct experience of it, when one can actually meet face to face with the essence of life, then he has achieved the first – but not the final – goal of the Inner Game."

In Gallwey's writings it sounds like passion is the first goal of the inner game but not the final.


The guy who write the article on the site says "Gallwey calls this final goal the discovery of Self 3."






So I'm not sure. I'd like more opinions please.
 
I believe it is what we in pool call "the zone". Where one lets go of everything around him. There is no thought of winning, no thought of losing, no thought of making the ball or missing the ball. There is just oneness with the table. The balls become ones entire existence at the time. Pure performance. Task at hand is to make the balls and get shape on the next ball to make it. The subconscious totally takes over and accomplishes the task assigned to it.

I also know that there are different levels of "the zone", and different ways to achieve "the zone". Different levels meaning that at one end of the zone, one is still somewhat aware of what they are doing. At the deepest level, which I have only achieved once in my life, there is not even a memory of what one has just done, there is only the performance. I only know of it from what others have said and by the amount of people that came over to watch what I was doing. I was that deep in the zone for about an hour, and have no recollection at all of anything I did at the time. Yet, at the end of it, when I finally came out of that deep "trance", there were about 50 people standing around the table watching me.

All I knew, was I started out showing someone how to play the game, and just fell into the trance. Afterwards people were wanting my autograph, which was extremely awkward to me. I was just a bar player. Had no idea what they saw and experienced. But, even not knowing what I had done, I knew it had to be very, very, special to attract that kind of attention. And it proved to me that what we normally do is no where's close to what we are actually capable of doing.

At the lower level of the zone, one can achieve it by simply eliminating all judgement. This I have done on command. No worry about winning or losing, no worry about how one looks to others. Just the thought that you will perform your best, and just see where that actually is at the time. Then, just letting it happen. You have that initial thought to tell your subconscious what the end goal is, then let it go and not think about it again. Everything around you goes away, and you just play pool. You allow your subconscious to do what your conscious has trained your body to do in practice.
 
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(((Satori))) said:
Thank you Fran for your response.

I wish I had an old copy so I could read more than what is written on the site I linked. Gallwey is certainly talking about passion here in the majority of his writings but he also says this:

"When one finds one’s way to the direct experience of it, when one can actually meet face to face with the essence of life, then he has achieved the first – but not the final – goal of the Inner Game."

In Gallwey's writings it sounds like passion is the first goal of the inner game but not the final.


The guy who write the article on the site says "Gallwey calls this final goal the discovery of Self 3."







So I'm not sure. I'd like more opinions please.
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I will have to dig out my old copy of the book. Self 1 is the conscious self. Self 2 is the unconscious self. Self three is the essence of the person. Passion is the key to experiencing the ultimate joy of the game. I guess you could call it the first goal accomplishing self 3 if you like.

Here's the quote from his last page that sold me on the idea of passion:

"It is the very source of all our potential; it is the seed from which our lives grow. It is the origin of every experience we have ever had of love, truth or beauty."
 
Thanks to both Neil and Fran. I'm so tired now that I cant think straight but tomorrow I will give this more thought.
 
Satori that's cool about the self 3. I always think of myself three different ways. 1 last time takerhe is the mastermind. 2he is Mr tim the coach. 3. The beast he is the player subconscious avatar.I think when I let the beast go and trust him to do what we train them to do that's when I find the zone. I am truly crazy.the mastermind he lives in a fantasy world. Mr Tim just second guessing everything.the beast is only good if you let him off the leash.but there is a continuous conversation between Mr Tim and the mastermindon who controls the Beast.the crazy part of this is I'm not trying to be funny no more this is real to me. I have a profile on my wall in my pool table room of the three different personalities.
 
Tim...I don't think your thoughts are crazy at all. That's a apt description of how to separate the three stages...learning, practicing and playing. How are you and Trish doing with your program (her progress is just as important)?

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

lastdimetaker said:
Satori that's cool about the self 3. I always think of myself three different ways. 1 last time takerhe is the mastermind. 2he is Mr tim the coach. 3. The beast he is the player subconscious avatar.I think when I let the beast go and trust him to do what we train them to do that's when I find the zone. I am truly crazy.the mastermind he lives in a fantasy world. Mr Tim just second guessing everything.the beast is only good if you let him off the leash.but there is a continuous conversation between Mr Tim and the mastermindon who controls the Beast.the crazy part of this is I'm not trying to be funny no more this is real to me. I have a profile on my wall in my pool table room of the three different personalities.
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Scott Lee said:
Tim...I don't think your thoughts are crazy at all. That's a apt description of how to separate the three stages...learning, practicing and playing. How are you and Trish doing with your program (her progress is just as important)?

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
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She is practicing every morning. Idk know much more than that lol she said she slow but she plans on playing in tournaments at the bar.. She bragged to her boss about the level of instruction u guys provide. She understands the medicine takes time. Thks again
 
All right, I think I know what Gallwey called self 3. I used to think it was the zone but that answer was never accepted as correct by my mentor I spoke of earlier and now I think I know why. I think self 3, the final goal is very similar to being in the zone but more permanent. I think self 3 is actually reaching a level of play in something you desire that is very close to your full potential and I believe everyone has within them the potential for elite level with 1) enough passion (the first goal) 2) coupled with the methods of playing, learning, and competing as taught in TIGOT with persistence, belief, and determination to reach, 3) SELF ACTUALIZATION (the final goal, self 3) self actualization in this sense being doing what you love and doing it great. I now think that is what self 3 is. Fast Eddie described it here.
http://youtu.be/kx3BVozrrbw
 
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It should be noted, I don't think the methods of learning and competing taught in TIGOT are the only way to come very close to your potential but I think they are very good. I personally favor the method of learning taught in the book but favor a more Western style of thinking when it comes to competing but again the method taught in TIGOT is also really good. However, the method of playing, turning the task over to self 2, I think is a must for playing close to your potential.
 
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