Greatest 14.1 players of all time.

There were so many good 14-1 players back "in the day" that maybe this should be a top 50 list rather than a top 10.

I would definitely have to add Lou Butera to the list.
As a very young player he beat Joe Balsis. Because he had a business to run and a large family to take care of, he didn't go on the road as much and didn't play in as many tournaments as the rest but he still won a WC and beat all of the greats of his generation at one time or another. He was definitely one of the best of all time.
 
Having worked at the Billiard Congress of America in Iowa City, Iowa some years ago, I had many opportunities to go through all of the old scoresheets and historical data from the earliest recognized championships.

By virtue of the official listed Championships in 14.1, the title clearly goes to Ralph Greenleaf, who won the title more consecutive times than second place finisher Frank Taberski. Willie Mosconi, while revered in the modern era as the paramount champion of the game, doesn't have as many official titles as the aforementioned duo.

I'm a little confused. According to the Billiards Congress of America, Ralph Greenleaf won the world championship 14 times and Willie Mosconi won it 15 times. :shrug:
Could you please shed some light on your quote? Am I missing something here?
 
The Best

Ralph Greenleaf
Willie Mosconi
Irving Crane
Mike Sigel
Oliver Ortman
Steve Mizerak
Joe Balsis
Allen Hopkins
Jimmy Caras
Thorsten Hohman


Ralph was the greatest. Willie probably would have been a great player on his own, but definately became who he was from the trip with Greenleaf where they played over 200 games together.

Greenleaf's life style probably took several more titles away from him, let alone, shortened his life.

Ralph had more charisma than any Champion ever.

For the money, Hopkins may be #1.
 
Last edited:
Ralph Greenleaf
Willie Mosconi
Irving Crane
Mike Sigel
Oliver Ortman
Steve Mizerak
Irving Crane
Joe Balsis
Allen Hopkins
Jimmy Caras

Ralph was the greatest. Willie probably would have been a great player on his own, but definately became who he was from the trip with Greenleaf where they played over 200 games together.

Greenleaf's life style probably took several more titles away from him, let alone, shortened his life.

Ralph had more charisma than any Champion ever.

For the money, Hopkins may be #1.

I have to say, my list would look identical to yours, except I wouldn't list Ortmann twice!
He's good but not that good : ) I'd add thorsten Hohmann.
 
I have to say, my list would look identical to yours, except I wouldn't list Ortmann twice!
He's good but not that good : ) I'd add thorsten Hohmann.

You mean Irving Crane being listed twice? (I admit, you had me looking, and then scratching my head as to why I didn't see Ortmann listed twice -- thought me eyes were deceiving me. :D )

-Sean
 
I'm not going to make a list. But in the last 50 years I have watched most of the great ones play 14.1. And all I'm going to add to this is that no one ran balls as effortlessly as Willie Mosconi.He made it look easy.
 
I'm not going to make a list. But in the last 50 years I have watched most of the great ones play 14.1. And all I'm going to add to this is that no one ran balls as effortlessly as Willie Mosconi.He made it look easy.

Amen to that, my Brother, Amen to that! :grin-square:
 
Ok just wanted to see what everyone out there thinks.I will be posting in the main forums for the other forms of billiards 8ball,9ball,1 pocket,and banks.List your top 10 only 14.1 players of all time.
Only 2 things to this are each of your choices must be a WORLD CHAMPION AT 14.1. and please stick to your top 10 and not to much story telling.mine are below.im sure i will adjust my top 10 as im sure im leaving someone out.good luck 14.1 friends.


1.Mosconi
2.Crane
3.greenleaf
4.Lassiter
5.Mizerak
6.Sigel
7.Cranfield
8.Varner
9.Caras
10.hopkins

Very good choices here, one I find difficulty in debating. Some honorable mentions would go to Cicero Murphy, Johnny Ervolino, Danny DiLiberto -- each in their own very good players (sorry for the name spelling).

I frequent John Schmidt's Billiards in Wheeling, West Virginia and am amazed at watching him play straight pool. The two times I watched him play a good player in his own right, John ran 184 before missing and then 192 without a miss. He is one hella of nice guy and will share his knowledge and love of the game with players. If you ever get a chance to go there, look him up.
 
You mean Irving Crane being listed twice? (I admit, you had me looking, and then scratching my head as to why I didn't see Ortmann listed twice -- thought me eyes were deceiving me. :D )

-Sean

LOL!! I can't believe I listed the wrong guy after correcting his post!
 
Reference Book

I'm a little confused. According to the Billiards Congress of America, Ralph Greenleaf won the world championship 14 times and Willie Mosconi won it 15 times. :shrug:
Could you please shed some light on your quote? Am I missing something here?
I was using the number of Championship Titles afforded using the 50th Anniversary Edition of the BCA Rules and Records Book. Ralph Greenleaf is listed 20 times from 1919-1937. Willie is listed from 1941-1956 a total of 19 times. While Frank Taberski is listed 15 Times, so I erred in the placing of Taberski at second. This uses 14.1 continuous tournaments, which began in 1912, and each tournament was declared a title defense, so each tournament with a defending prior tournament champion, is considered for the title. That is why in the early 1900's we had multiple world champions each year. It is also why there are a number of vacant titles shown, as the participants were unavailable to participate, so a legitimate crown could not be extended. Yearly title defenses began in 1969.

There is more to the records of Pool and Billiards that gets into print. Perhaps, one day when the BCA could actually build a Museum and Archive, we might see more of these stories.
 
I know Hoppe was known for 3 cushion, but did he play 14.1? If so, how good was he?
I'm pretty sure Willie Hoppe stopped playing pool before 14.1 was invented, but he probably did play point-per-ball pool when he was young. I think there is a story in his autobiography about Maurice Daly telling his father that his stroke was much better suited to carom.

And Hoppe did not dominate at 3-C. He was primarily a balkline player. I believe that Brunswick tried to limit 3-C because they had the balkline players locked up on contract and their main star -- Hoppe -- could not beat the best at 3-C.
 
I'm pretty sure Willie Hoppe stopped playing pool before 14.1 was invented, but he probably did play point-per-ball pool when he was young. I think there is a story in his autobiography about Maurice Daly telling his father that his stroke was much better suited to carom.

And Hoppe did not dominate at 3-C. He was primarily a balkline player. I believe that Brunswick tried to limit 3-C because they had the balkline players locked up on contract and their main star -- Hoppe -- could not beat the best at 3-C.
Thanks for the information.

When did 14.1 come on the scene? He was in his prime in the 1920s, right?
 
Thanks for the information.

When did 14.1 come on the scene? He was in his prime in the 1920s, right?
14.1 was invented about 1912. Hoppe won his first balkline world championship in 1906. I imagine he never played any serious pool after that, and probably none after he was 10 years old. From 1927 to 1936 Hoppe did not win any championship. That's a long dry spell. During that time he moved from balkline -- which was dying -- to 3-cushion.

His autobiography "Thirty Years of Billiards" which was published in 1925, is a good read. Paperback copies are available for about $30. I think I have extra copies of both the paperback and the original hardback.
 
Back
Top