Greatest 14.1 players of all time.

wrldpro

wrldpro

H.RUN 311/Diamond W.R.
Gold Member
Silver Member
Ok just wanted to see what everyone out there thinks.I will be posting in the main forums for the other forms of billiards 8ball,9ball,1 pocket,and banks.List your top 10 only 14.1 players of all time.
Only 2 things to this are each of your choices must be a WORLD CHAMPION AT 14.1. and please stick to your top 10 and not to much story telling.mine are below.im sure i will adjust my top 10 as im sure im leaving someone out.good luck 14.1 friends.


1.Mosconi
2.Crane
3.greenleaf
4.Lassiter
5.Mizerak
6.Sigel
7.Cranfield
8.Varner
9.Caras
10.hopkins
 
Last edited:
I would put the Miz on top and Mosconi second, and also insert Oliver Ortman, Niels, Thorston and Ray Martin. Just don't know which I could take out from your list..lol..
 
Last edited:
wrldpro said:
Ok just wanted to see what everyone out there thinks.I will be posting in the main forums for the other forms of billiards 8ball,9ball,1 pocket,and banks.List your top 10 only 14.1 players of all time.
Only 2 things to this are each of your choices must be a WORLD CHAMPION AT 14.1. and please stick to your top 10 and not to much story telling.mine are below.im sure i will adjust my top 10 as im sure im leaving someone out.good luck 14.1 friends.


1.Mosconi
2.Crane
3.greenleaf
4.Lassiter
5.Mizerak
6.Sigel
7.Cranfield
8.Varner
9.hoppe
10.hopkins
Click to expand...

I know I'm going to look like an absolute buffoon here when it turns out I'm wrong, but wasn't Hoppe "just" a balkline/carom champion? I am sure he played a great game of pool too but...

- Steve
 
Steve Lipsky said:
I know I'm going to look like an absolute buffoon here when it turns out I'm wrong, but wasn't Hoppe "just" a balkline/carom champion? I am sure he played a great game of pool too but...

- Steve
Click to expand...

I agree, Steve -- Willie Hoppe was a 18.2 Balkline, Carom -- and later -- a 3-cushion champion. Willie's actually one of my all-time favorite players (I play a little 3C myself). I've adopted his closed-bridge technique, in fact.

I would substitute Joe "The Meatman" Balsis for Willie Hoppe in the list. Joe was twice the 14.1 World Champion, even though he was the recipient of Irving Crane's 150-and-out in the 1966 World Championship (on Accu-Stats).

-Sean
 
1. Mosconi
2. Sigel
3. Crane
4. Mizerak
5. Greenleaf
6. Varner
7. Schmidt
8. Cranfield
9. Hopkins
10. Ortmann
 
My Picks

1: Mosconi
2: Crane
3: Lassiter
4: Mizerak

All others are equal and there are many past & present.
I just hold these four at the top of my list.
I would have to add. Lassiter as the best all around player of all time.
 
Demondrew said:
I would add "King James" Rempe somewhere around fourth or fifth.

Andy
Click to expand...

All-time-14/1 players without Jim Rempe? A "No-Go"!

^^
therer were so many unbelievable 14-1 players. I think would be always difficult to build one which would be fair. But Crane, Greenleaf, Mosconi and Miz were for sure to name in every list. I think i could name 20 more unbelievable strong 14-1 champions. But those 4 were so constantly and ve done much for the pool-world, and this over decades-they would earn to be on it for a lifetime.

just my humble opinion :)
lg
Ingo
 
1- Mosconi
2- Greenleaf
3- Sigel
4- Lassiter
5- Mizerak
6- Balsis
7- Crane
8- Ortmann
9- Hohmann
10- Caras


I have to mention the great James Evans here. The OP stipulated players that have won a world 14.1 championship hence Evans wasn't on the list, however he was barred from playing in the WC because of racism. I have no doubt he would have been a multiple WC winner had he been allowed to play. He won the New York 14.1 championship something like 10 years in a row when he was already considered past his prime and those events had some very strong fields. He was also known to spot ANYONE at 14.1 on a 5 x 10 table with tight pockets, that included Ponzi, Rudolph, Jimmy Moore, he offered a spot to Mosconi but he refused to play.
 
Last edited:
Mr441 said:
I have to mention the great James Evans here. The OP stipulated players that have won a world 14.1 championship hence Evans wasn't on the list, however he was barred from playing in the WC because of racism. I have no doubt he would have been a multiple WC winner had he been allowed to play. He won the New York 14.1 championship something like 10 years in a row when he was already considered past his prime and those events had some very strong fields. He was also known to spot ANYONE at 14.1 on a 5 x 10 table with tight pockets, that included Ponzi, Rudolph, Jimmy Moore, he offered a spot to Mosconi but he refused to play.
Click to expand...

Offering Mosconi a spot sounds pretty strong. Mosconi might not have liked the game but he was also known to not care about gambling. I would like to see some old video of Mr Evans playing, is any available. He is actually new to me as I am sure are many of the great black players who were routinely barred from the big tournaments.
 
elvicash said:
Offering Mosconi a spot sounds pretty strong. Mosconi might not have liked the game but he was also known to not care about gambling. I would like to see some old video of Mr Evans playing, is any available. He is actually new to me as I am sure are many of the great black players who were routinely barred from the big tournaments.
Click to expand...

As far as I know there isn't any footage of Evans playing. He was in his prime back during the Greenleaf era. From what I understand he and Greenleaf played a couple of times and they were very close in level of play. I spoke to a few old timer's several years ago who had actually seen Evans play and they all said he was every bit as good as Greenleaf and as good as or even better than Mosconi. By the time they lifted the ban on black players it was 1965 and Evans was already in his 70's and his sight was bad so he couldn't play. Cisero Murphy won that tournament in 1965 but the old timers said Murphy wasn't nearly as good as Evans was.
 
Good Point

elvicash said:
Offering Mosconi a spot sounds pretty strong. Mosconi might not have liked the game but he was also known to not care about gambling. I would like to see some old video of Mr Evans playing, is any available. He is actually new to me as I am sure are many of the great black players who were routinely barred from the big tournaments.
Click to expand...

Yes, I know for a fact that Mosconi did not like to gamble. Once in awhile he would with a gambler that got under his skin. He would take all their money and then give them back enough money to get out of town.
 
Mr441 said:
1- Mosconi
2- Greenleaf
3- Sigel
4- Lassiter
5- Mizerak
6- Balsis
7- Crane
8- Ortmann
9- Hohmann
10- Caras


I have to mention the great James Evans here. The OP stipulated players that have won a world 14.1 championship hence Evans wasn't on the list, however he was barred from playing in the WC because of racism. I have no doubt he would have been a multiple WC winner had he been allowed to play. He won the New York 14.1 championship something like 10 years in a row when he was already considered past his prime and those events had some very strong fields. He was also known to spot ANYONE at 14.1 on a 5 x 10 table with tight pockets, that included Ponzi, Rudolph, Jimmy Moore, he offered a spot to Mosconi but he refused to play.
Click to expand...

Thx for the history lesson.
wish I could have been there
If this man was indeed as good as you say, and I do not doubt what you do say, it is a damn shame not to have heard of him before.
 
How about Frank Taberski. He and Greenleaf traded titles for decades when they were both in their prime.
 
driven said:
Thx for the history lesson.
wish I could have been there
If this man was indeed as good as you say, and I do not doubt what you do say, it is a damn shame not to have heard of him before.
Click to expand...

I've heard quite a bit about James Evans and it's pretty much the same as what Mr441 stated. Everyone I've spoken too who saw him play were in awe of him. The late Johnny Ervolino once told me that when he was a kid in the late 1940's he used to watch Evans play at the old 7-11 poolroom in NYC. There was a curtain around the table Evans played on and the house charged something like 50 cents (this was the 40's) to watch him play. Johnny used to wspend hours watching Evans and Johhny Irish play 75 no count on a 5 x 10 with brutal pockets. he said he learned more watching those matches than anywhere else.
 
14.1 player updates

Wow so far so good guys.I did make 1 change so far.Keeping a top 10 is very hard.Here are a few names that you all have listed so far outside of my top 10.

rempe-w/c and good choice
neils-w/c plays all games good
thorsten-w/c solid player
evans-no world title
ortmann-w/c and one of my favorite players
martin-w/c and great instructor
balsis-w/c and very feared player
murphy-w/c hail cicero
taberski-w/c many titles
ervolino-no world title was great for the sport
 
Last edited:
14.1 player updates

keep it going guys.remember please make a top list of your own and they must have won a world title.lots of good names listed that are world class players but not world champions.
 
Last edited:
Great Players

Here are a few more names that need to be mention:
Frank McGown, who ran 150 against Balsis from the break in a tour. in 68
Machine Gun Lou Butera who holds the record of 93 balls in 8 mins.
Dallas West of Rockford, IL.
They need to be among all the great players that have been listed here.
Other players who were not as well know but were great and held titles:
Al Coslosky from Philadelphia, PA.
Danny Gartner of NJ
Both were very strong players in the 50's & 60's
 
Last edited:
Well I dont see Cicero Murrphy,Harold Worst,Jack Breit(Jersey Red),James Evans,Danny D,and a few others I cant think of that should be above a few of your choices.
 
Best List

This is a great thread. Naturally, there are a lot of players that we admire that we like to see acknowledged as the best.

Having worked at the Billiard Congress of America in Iowa City, Iowa some years ago, I had many opportunities to go through all of the old scoresheets and historical data from the earliest recognized championships.

By virtue of the official listed Championships in 14.1, the title clearly goes to Ralph Greenleaf, who won the title more consecutive times than second place finisher Frank Taberski. Willie Mosconi, while revered in the modern era as the paramount champion of the game, doesn't have as many official titles as the aforementioned duo. Beyond Mosconi, we must look to other names, such as Luther Lassiter who won in a 3 year and then 4 year stint. Irving Crane and Jimmy Caras were intermittent winners during this era.

For championships after 1960, we did not have any dominating players. Mike Sigel and Steve Mizerak were the overall title winners, many of the other names you all have mentioned appear on the list.

There have been many great pool players who never won a championship, some due to their lifestyle, others through discrimination. Rightfully, they should be admired and appreciated for their contributions to the sport.

I do not have a list of my own, but wanted to say Thank You for keeping 14.1 alive and developing the game for the future.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top