Grip Nuances

[Imac007]

Dan White...Perhaps the only instructors you know haven't done the grip justice, but that's certainly not the case among the best instructors. I teach five ways to train your hand...one of them will work for all players. Most important issue is not to clench the cuestick as you accelerate the cue through the CB, rather than how you actually hold on to it. Cocked wrist is a recipe for mistakes. Anybody watching Brandon's videos should watch them with a grain of salt. He really is a laughing stock among many of the top instructors.

Scott Lee
2019 PBIA Instructor of the Year
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

A businessman in Billiard supplies willing to share knowledge is like a car salesman who teaches customers how to drive, a rarity. He’s not promoting himself as an expert. He’s sharing at the level of his expertise. Effren spoke about one of his sources of new knowledge was watching local players. Unusual results would catch his eye and he would learn how to duplicate what he saw. Everyone has something to offer.

Pushing someone down causes you to stoop.
In the process of raising someone up, you end up standing taller yourself.

 

[JuanM]

I wouldn't go so far as to suggest we consider whether Efren would endorse a salesman yacking for exposure through yt clicks. seems a bit much.

 

[sparkle84]

A businessman in Billiard supplies willing to share knowledge is like a car salesman who teaches customers how to drive, a rarity. He’s not promoting himself as an expert. He’s sharing at the level of his expertise. Effren spoke about one of his sources of new knowledge was watching local players. Unusual results would catch his eye and he would learn how to duplicate what he saw. Everyone has something to offer.

Pushing someone down causes you to stoop.
In the process of raising someone up, you end up standing taller yourself.

I really don't think the Efren analogy flies here. God knows I have issues with some of the stuff SL says on here but he's spot on in this instance. Everyone has something to offer? Even though what they're offering is garbage? Learning to play good pool is incredibly difficult so suggesting we dumb it down as far as possible is the way to go? Do you even play pool?

 

[Dan White]

Dan White...Perhaps the only instructors you know haven't done the grip justice, but that's certainly not the case among the best instructors. I teach five ways to train your hand...one of them will work for all players. Most important issue is not to clench the cuestick as you accelerate the cue through the CB, rather than how you actually hold on to it. Cocked wrist is a recipe for mistakes. Anybody watching Brandon's videos should watch them with a grain of salt. He really is a laughing stock among many of the top instructors.

Scott Lee
2019 PBIA Instructor of the Year
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

Mark Wilson wrote the best book I've read on playing pool but IMO the section on the grip is lacking. Stan Shuffett is an accomplished instructor and he recommends an inward cocked wrist. Maybe the conclusion is like you say. As long as you can achieve a non clenched hand at contact then the rest is personal preference.

 

[The_JV]

As long as you can achieve a non clenched hand at contact then the rest is personal preference.

Every thread that has an element of instruction should be have the bolded foot noted... I have witnessed some of the worst strokes, grips, stances on players that can play at +650 when they catch a gear, and get into a rhythm. The caveat is they have so many inconsistencies in their games because of the "bad habits / form" that playing at that level is rare.

While I don't doubt the mechanical theory behind various grips for various types of shots. I personally rather suffer the loss of some minute gain for the consistency of a single grip style.

 

[evergruven]

that there is constantly so much debate about pool technique
I think speaks well to the depth and richness of the game
everybody has something to offer, choose your own adventure

 

[stumpie71]

I agree not much emphasis is placed on the cradle/grip.
Personally my cradle works for me because it allows my hand and arm to remain relaxed while delivering the cue straight.


A traditional pool cradle with the index, middle and ring finger causes a slight pronation and flexion of my wrist. While this movement is slight it does have a huge impact on my movements.


I cradle the cue with the middle, ring, and pinky fingers, and on touch shots I can "feel" more with my pinky finger. I am not saying the pinky or and other finger does this in general, however this is what works for me personally. It has to more to do with my forearm muscles and my body than this finger does this and this finger does that.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

A traditional pool cradle with the index, middle and ring finger causes a slight pronation and flexion of my wrist.

Me too - but it feels more natural to me than cradling with rear fingers, so I just keep the rear fingers in loose contact to avoid the pronation.

Works for me...

pj
chgo

 

[Bob Jewett]

... While I don't doubt the mechanical theory behind various grips for various types of shots, I personally rather suffer the loss of some minute gain for the consistency of a single grip style.

I don't think you have any loss. I think the only benefit in having a variety of grips is that somehow it puts that player into a mindset for the shot.

As for the theory, no one here is a sports physiologist, so no real theory has been presented. Just guesses and self-satisfied conjecture.

Unless I see a clear reason to depart from solid and simple -- which does apply to some aspects of maybe 5% of shots -- keep it solid and simple.

 

[The_JV]

As for the theory, no one here is a sports physiologist, so no real theory has been presented. Just guesses and self-satisfied conjecture.

I mean mechanical theory, as in engaging these fingers promotes tension for power. While engaging this set of fingers promotes feel for light touch shots.

I'd venture that 90% of this game is managing mental garbage, and pool players by nature are hoarders....lol

 

[JuanM]

playin around with it on a practice table, i see drastically different cueball reactions sometimes (especially with the deadball grip).

clarification...drastically different cueball reactions compared to the grip i was using....
which was a very loose ring formed with my thumb and the f-u finger. very light. way way way too light.

shot ok with it sometimes. dropped my cue every now and then, once accidentally threw my cue down the table on a long tough almost straight in shot. but mainly, it was a real mess under pressure.

i guess that grip was a stepping stone. stumbled into it while trying to build a stroke on a foundation of hideous habits. feels weird now, when every so often i catch my hand going to that grip out of habit.

I think the only benefit in having a variety of grips is that somehow it puts that player into a mindset for the shot.

pretty huge for me right now, something that may fall by the wayside as things progress. trying to use it to let go of the stroke.

 

[straightline]

The side of the thumb grip is also implemented as an active grip where the hand closes, supposedly squirting the stick at the cue ball. Too many moving parts fyask me. With the grip biased toward the back of the hand, you use more big muscle (bicep etc...) and you can still apply a steady state squeeze if you choose.

 

[FranCrimi]

Man this guy has a lot of videos...lol. I went hunting for the particular one noted above... Is this it...?

Along the way to that finding that vid, I watched a few others. ...and although I repect the hell out of the man for being so informative, I do have to say that his bridging examples on the rail were painful to watch.
Open:

Closed:

I also now desperately want the Predator perimeter light based on his review....lol I'm sure I can make for 1k less though (excluding remote control).

I did my best not to expand beyond the OP's question on my first post, so I'll do it now...lol. The only time I ever change my grip method (not pressure) is when I'm stretched out enough to allow cupping the butt (ya I know what I just said). I don't know if it's some subconscious "grip of comfort" from my snooker days or whatever. Grip entails the the fore and middle finger gripping and the very end of the cue against my closed ring finger.

I like what he's saying and I went and took a look at some of his other videos. I think he did his homework and he can clearly play as well. I don't know him but he seems like a good teacher.

 

[Tennesseejoe]

I think the grip is highly complex and hasn't been done justice by instructors. Usually the recommendation is to just keep the hand relaxed. Maybe it is because the grip is such an individual thing that it is hard to recommend a "one size fits all" instruction. To me, the goal is to deliver the cue straight and without any twisting. I might achieve that differently than you.

I tried something recently that might interest you. I found that I wasn't able to play much on my home table due to "life" but I decided to force myself to hit 1 rack of straight pool break shots twice per day, no matter what. Of course that quickly became once per day... I hit a break shot from the left side then the right and back to the left until I hit all 15 balls successfully. I used different angles and speeds from medium to hard, and forced awkward positions like leaning over the table using a long bridge, and so on. Besides making me much more automatic on the all important break shot, it taught me some things. The primary thing I found is that if I did not maintain a thumb straight down (ie, straight wrist) throughout the shot I would curl the cue which, for me caused left spin on the cb and often a miss. This happened more on stretched out shots and harder hits. Finding that wrist problem was a small magic bullet that has helped, of course, with all shots. I realized that when I am playing really well that wrist is not cocked. (I know some players "pre cock" the wrist inwards because I guess it is easier to shoot that way under pressure but I don't care for that method, at least not right now). So maybe you can pick some exercise shots like I did and take note of what works and what doesn't. Finding the little things that really matter is not usually easy, more like trial and error. I found using the straight pool break shot was a reasonably difficult shot that resulted in a miss when everything was not done correctly, so it gave me opportunities to figure out what I was doing wrong.

Something that may give you more information on your stroke, when shooting your straight pool break shot, is using a Rempe training cue ball. This will show if you are hitting the cue ball in the center. I was not and I tried everything to improve. Finally I changed my stance to facing more straight forward to the cue ball. I could not believe the immediate improvement.

 

[Dan White]

Something that may give you more information on your stroke, when shooting your straight pool break shot, is using a Rempe training cue ball. This will show if you are hitting the cue ball in the center. I was not and I tried everything to improve. Finally I changed my stance to facing more straight forward to the cue ball. I could not believe the immediate improvement.

Excellent suggestion. I do have a Rempe ball and it is helpful in revealing problems.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Excellent suggestion. I do have a Rempe ball and it is helpful in revealing problems.

If others who don't have a Rempe ball want to try this, a striped ball works too - place it with the stripe vertical and in line with the shot - any off center hit will make the stripe wobble visibly

pj
chgo