GSBT Payout ?

[MikeJanis]

I know it is inevitable that I will get slammed for this post so I want to make it clear that I am not intending to slam the GSBT but I just want to know if Open event participation is down that low on the GSBT and/or if discounted players percentages jumped that high, and/or if the article is incorrect. Mj


This weeks article on AZ from the GSBT states they had 40 players (see article: http://www.azbilliards.com/2000storya.php?storynum=5510). Ok, cool. However, the tournament payouts only reflect 23.3 players paid. As with my tour I know there are deductions for TT/Reg fees and Free and/or discounted entry fees but in these payouts (listed here: http://www.azbilliards.com/thepros/2000showtourney2008.php?eventnum=307) are way off base compared to what is normal in these situations.

Is the article or payouts listed incorrectly or was there actually this low of a percent of paid players in the event ????

Marge, SD please fill us in.


If the free/discount program jumped that much I hope it is just an anomaly.

Anomaly = An anomaly is an irregularity, a mis proportion, or something that is strange or unusual, or unique.
= anything that differs from expectations, whether the expectations resulted from documentation, experiences or otherwise



Mj

 

[MikeJanis]

Maybe someone who was there could give a few details.

Mj

 

[B_White]

I have spoke with Shannon and they are having internet difficulties, but they will be responding later this evening, stay tuned.

 

[9balllvr]

I know it is inevitable that I will get slammed for this post so I want to make it clear that I am not intending to slam the GSBT but I just want to know if Open event participation is down that low on the GSBT and/or if discounted players percentages jumped that high, and/or if the article is incorrect. Mj


This weeks article on AZ from the GSBT states they had 40 players (see article: http://www.azbilliards.com/2000storya.php?storynum=5510). Ok, cool. However, the tournament payouts only reflect 23.3 players paid. As with my tour I know there are deductions for TT/Reg fees and Free and/or discounted entry fees but in these payouts (listed here: http://www.azbilliards.com/thepros/2000showtourney2008.php?eventnum=307) are way off base compared to what is normal in these situations.

Is the article or payouts listed incorrectly or was there actually this low of a percent of paid players in the event ????

Marge, SD please fill us in.


If the free/discount program jumped that much I hope it is just an anomaly.

Anomaly = An anomaly is an irregularity, a mis proportion, or something that is strange or unusual, or unique.
= anything that differs from expectations, whether the expectations resulted from documentation, experiences or otherwise



Mj

Mike,
As Brian noted, Marge and Shannon are not able to jump on the net. Given that I prepared the write-up, I think I can speak to your questions. When Marge and I touched base on the tournament results, it was a bit nutty at the time and the number of players was miscommunicated. The number of players should have been 32 - your calculation was correct as the remainder were ladies, military, and one senior. So, as you can see, the numbers are accurate.

If you have any additional questions, you may want to contact SD or Marge directly as a courtesy versus threads such as these.

Best,
Sherry

 

[MikeJanis]

Mike,
As Brian noted, Marge and Shannon are not able to jump on the net. Given that I prepared the write-up, I think I can speak to your questions. When Marge and I touched base on the tournament results, it was a bit nutty at the time and the number of players was miscommunicated. The number of players should have been 32 - your calculation was correct as the remainder were ladies, military, and one senior. So, as you can see, the numbers are accurate.

If you have any additional questions, you may want to contact SD or Marge directly as a courtesy versus threads such as these.

Best,
Sherry

Sherry, I pretty much knew the answer but wasn't positive but a few players decided to call, PM and email me so I thought it would be best to clear it up here. That way everyone could see it was just an error in the article. No biggie. Thanks for shedding some light.

Mj

 

[9balllvr]

Sherry, I pretty much knew the answer but wasn't positive but a few players decided to call, PM and email me so I thought it would be best to clear it up here. That way everyone could see it was just an error in the article. No biggie. Thanks for shedding some light.

Mj

The problem with threads such as these Mike is that it can damage the reputation of tours - maybe that is the intent, maybe it is not - but it can do so with just a click of a button.

As much as I work hard to provide the most accurate result-based write-ups for the tours and independent events, there can be slip ups occassionally given the number of events per week these days that I follow-up on for the site.

In the future (and this is for all on the forums, not just you), if there are questions about articles that are prepared, drop me a line at spouncey@yahoo.com - I would be glad to check into any discrepancies you may have as it is my name on the articles as well.

 

[Ktown D]

Sherry, I pretty much knew the answer but wasn't positive but a few players decided to call, PM and email me so I thought it would be best to clear it up here. That way everyone could see it was just an error in the article. No biggie. Thanks for shedding some light.

Mj

Whew........

It will probably be a load off Shannon's mind to know you were just looking out for him, he might have thought you were slinging doo-doo.:thumbup:

 

[MikeJanis]

Whew........

It will probably be a load off Shannon's mind to know you were just looking out for him, he might have thought you were slinging doo-doo.

Now, now relax there Big Boy. The numbers just didn't add up based on the accumulated stats that we keep on all tours. I knew something was wrong and for the sake of our sport was just hoping it was an error in reporting (which it was).

Believe me, my last thought was to sling doo-doo. If it wasn't an error in the article I would be sitting here being to busy reformulating my own business plan instead of worrying about someone elses.



Mj

 

[av84fun]

Now, now relax there Big Boy. The numbers just didn't add up based on the accumulated stats that we keep on all tours. I knew something was wrong and for the sake of our sport was just hoping it was an error in reporting (which it was).

Believe me, my last thought was to sling doo-doo. If it wasn't an error in the article I would be sitting here being to busy reformulating my own business plan instead of worrying about someone elses.



Mj

Mike, as you know, I have posted in support of what you do for the game on numerous occasions but I have to call 'em like I see 'em.

You are in direct competition with GSBT and your first post insinuated improper payouts. The was a VERY transparent attempt to cast them in a negative light ESPECIALLY since in a later post, you ADMITTED that you pretty much knew there was a valid explanation.

Not one of your finest moments sir.

Regards,
Jim

 

[MikeJanis]

Mike, as you know, I have posted in support of what you do for the game on numerous occasions but I have to call 'em like I see 'em.

You are in direct competition with GSBT and your first post insinuated improper payouts. The was a VERY transparent attempt to cast them in a negative light ESPECIALLY since in a later post, you ADMITTED that you pretty much knew there was a valid explanation.

Not one of your finest moments sir.

Regards,
Jim

Jim, you can read into it what you want. I gave several explinations as to what I thought it was and none of them implied impropriety by the GSBT.

My only thought is that something was wrong, as it was later discovered that YES, something was wrong.

Jim, if these #rs were correct and there were that many discount/free entries given it would have had a serious impact on other Open events in the future. In my line of work I need to stay on top of these things and monitor them very closely so I know what to expect in my own events and iniatiate new techniques to combat against a trend like that.

Thats all it is. Just as I stated in my opening comment in the thread.

I know it is inevitable that I will get slammed for this post so I want to make it clear that I am not intending to slam the GSBT but I just want to know if Open event participation is down that low on the GSBT and/or if discounted players percentages jumped that high, and/or if the article is incorrect. Mj

Mj

 

[coop19772002]

It looks like there are a few things that need to be cleared up. If there has ever been a question of The Great Southern Billiard Tours's payouts then I will be the first one to answer. There was a miscommunication between Sherry and I on the number of players that were in attendance. There were 32 total players with 5 ladies, 4 military, & 1 senior. As everyone knows The GSBT allows ladies and military players to play absoulutely FREE and our junior and seniors to play for half. So if you do the math -

22 paid entrants @ $30 going to the tourney - $660
The room owner added $1500 which means that the total prize fund was $2160. The payouts for the tourney were as follows:

1st $1000
2nd $500
3rd $300
4th $200
5/6th $100 ea.

The total is: $2200. So if my math is correct - there is $40 that was not in the prize fund but was paid out. Actually, the GSBT paid out an extra $40 plus $50 for the highest lady finisher. So, truth be told there was $90 that came directly from my pocket to pay out these spots.

So Mike I hope this is suffient enough for you. I know what your intent was and everyone on here knows what your intent was. This is not the first time you have tried to discredit our tour and other tours for the benefit of making yours look better. What I want to know is, is if The Great Southern Billiard Tour is so bad then why did you start doing everything we did? We were the FIRST tour to make paying $1000 to first place a standard. Only weeks later, you put all over AZ that the Viking tour guarantees $1000 for first. Which you know was fine. Also, we were the first tour to allow ladies and military players to play for FREE - free meaning not paying an entry fee into any event only paying a one time $20 tour card. We did this to show our appreciation to all the military for serving our country and trying to promote pool for ladies getting more involved in the sport. What did you do - u copied that idea also. If you are such a promoter of pool and only want to better the sport why do you dog out all of the other tours that are truly trying to support pool? You have blatanly said that you are trying to run these tours out of business and I can only tell you we aren't going anywhere. I have never cared what your tour does and will continue not to. I will only try to better our tour to make it better for ALL players.

 

[Mike Templeton]

Whew........

It will probably be a load off Shannon's mind to know you were just looking out for him, he might have thought you were slinging doo-doo.:thumbup:

I agree Ktown :smile: .

Sometimes, even if your intentions are just, too many people think that you are trying to put down competiton with threads like this. It seemed like that to me as well when I first read the thread.

Sometimes discretion can be the better part of valor.

Mike

 

[1on1pooltournys]

No sweat GSBT!!

We are all aware of what Mike Janis attempted to do by making this post. I think he did more damage than good to his tour and his reputation by doing so.
Keep up the good work guys and thanks for supporting pool!!

 

[cincyman]

We are all aware of what Mike Janis attempted to do by making this post. I think he did more damage than good to his tour and his reputation by doing so.
Keep up the good work guys and thanks for supporting pool!!

I have to agree!!

 

[Elwood]

intention?

Mike, from a completely impartial perspective, I found your post more accusatory than inquisitive. Maybe I'm wrong. Also, thanks for defining the word "anomaly"! Us knuckleheads here on AZ don't know big words such as that. Elwood

 

[Ktown D]

I agree Ktown :smile: .

Sometimes, even if your intentions are just, too many people think that you are trying to put down competiton with threads like this. It seemed like that to me as well when I first read the thread.

Sometimes discretion can be the better part of valor.

Mike

Based on all of the other responses in this thread I seem to be the only one that figured this to be an honest innocent inquisition about the entrants and the discounts.

D<-- glass half full guy:thumbup:

 

[stick8]

u oh

It looks like there are a few things that need to be cleared up. If there has ever been a question of The Great Southern Billiard Tours's payouts then I will be the first one to answer. There was a miscommunication between Sherry and I on the number of players that were in attendance. There were 32 total players with 5 ladies, 4 military, & 1 senior. As everyone knows The GSBT allows ladies and military players to play absoulutely FREE and our junior and seniors to play for half. So if you do the math -

22 paid entrants @ $30 going to the tourney - $660
The room owner added $1500 which means that the total prize fund was $2160. The payouts for the tourney were as follows:

1st $1000
2nd $500
3rd $300
4th $200
5/6th $100 ea.

The total is: $2200. So if my math is correct - there is $40 that was not in the prize fund but was paid out. Actually, the GSBT paid out an extra $40 plus $50 for the highest lady finisher. So, truth be told there was $90 that came directly from my pocket to pay out these spots.

So Mike I hope this is suffient enough for you. I know what your intent was and everyone on here knows what your intent was. This is not the first time you have tried to discredit our tour and other tours for the benefit of making yours look better. What I want to know is, is if The Great Southern Billiard Tour is so bad then why did you start doing everything we did? We were the FIRST tour to make paying $1000 to first place a standard. Only weeks later, you put all over AZ that the Viking tour guarantees $1000 for first. Which you know was fine. Also, we were the first tour to allow ladies and military players to play for FREE - free meaning not paying an entry fee into any event only paying a one time $20 tour card. We did this to show our appreciation to all the military for serving our country and trying to promote pool for ladies getting more involved in the sport. What did you do - u copied that idea also. If you are such a promoter of pool and only want to better the sport why do you dog out all of the other tours that are truly trying to support pool? You have blatanly said that you are trying to run these tours out of business and I can only tell you we aren't going anywhere. I have never cared what your tour does and will continue not to. I will only try to better our tour to make it better for ALL players.

Shannon lands a left, how will mike counter???WOW!!!! Jump in here BW ,tag team!!!SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!!!!!:grin-square: :grin-square: :grin-square: :grin-square:where is GRADY when you need him?????

 

[gamecocksfan81]

well Mike got pretty defensive in the other thread about the Viking tour when someone pointed out about a tourney in Memphis. And then we have to see this thread.

 

[stick8]

wow

:thumbup: :thumbup:

Shannon lands a left, how will mike counter???WOW!!!! Jump in here BW ,tag team!!!SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!!!!!:grin-square: :grin-square: :grin-square: :grin-square:where is GRADY when you need him?????

 

[MikeJanis]

So Mike I hope this is sufficient enough for you. I know what your intent was and everyone on here knows what your intent was. This is not the first time you have tried to discredit our tour and other tours for the benefit of making yours look better. What I want to know is, is if The Great Southern Billiard Tour is so bad then why did you start doing everything we did? We were the FIRST tour to make paying $1000 to first place a standard. Only weeks later, you put all over AZ that the Viking tour guarantees $1000 for first. Which you know was fine. Also, we were the first tour to allow ladies and military players to play for FREE - free meaning not paying an entry fee into any event only paying a one time $20 tour card. We did this to show our appreciation to all the military for serving our country and trying to promote pool for ladies getting more involved in the sport. What did you do - u copied that idea also. If you are such a promoter of pool and only want to better the sport why do you dog out all of the other tours that are truly trying to support pool? You have blatantly said that you are trying to run these tours out of business and I can only tell you we aren't going anywhere. I have never cared what your tour does and will continue not to. I will only try to better our tour to make it better for ALL players.

Shannon, I am not trying to run all the other tours out of business. Only the bad ones. Additionally it was TK that started the whole $1,000 thing and I won't even correct you on the other mistakes. Just giving TK the correct recognition.

Shannon, when you came to starting the GSBT through the 8-ball tour I was one of the first to help you. We ( the Viking Tour) provided a championship for your players so you could make money by charging the players TC's and we provided advertising support along with contact information. Heck, I even held one of your events at the Pool Room I was managing at the time in Duluth, GA. We had an agreement and not only did you not fully honor the agreement you purposely split off and competed directly with me. I have heard from quite few room owners about your tactics on selling events while discrediting the Viking Tour and quite a few of the stories have been blatant lies on your part to them (Of course this is their story but it is odd that I have heard the same story from more than 1 room owner.).

Personally, I always felt an immediate responsibility to the players, fans, room owners and sponsors to get my results correct. We have also had misquotes on event #rs and/or payouts but I always immediately followed up with the magazines and/or websites to immediately correct the articles.

No matter how you look at it there was a mistake made and by whoever does not matter. It should be your responsibility to get it corrected ASAP. An anomaly in the #rs like that could show a devastating trend in our sport and everyone needs to be on top of it.

Shannon, over the years I have paid to get you into and for accommodations at large Viking Tour events along with food and travel expenses. I even saved your ass when some bookie guy wanted to kill you in Cleveland (that cost me a big favor to someone I did not want to owe but I did it to help you.). I have never purposely tried to harm your reputation or events. But now, consider those good times over.

I mean c'mon Shannon, 20% fee off the player auction. What gives. No guarantees for room owners as long as you make a buck. It's things like that that are bad for the sport. Then, and then, at the SCO you picked up a chalk from a sponsor that has been supporting our sport since 1994 and in front of all the spectators threw it on the ground and said "this stuff is junk" then pretended to spit on it. And you wonder why you have such little sponsorship from the industry. I was soo embarrassed for you I didn't even have the balls to kick your no class butt out of the event. I figured your character spoke for itself and that was enough punishment.

You are already seeing a decline in new events and players. Keep doing things like you have been and we won't have to have these conversations.

Good Luck,


Mj