Guy makes 634 in Rotation..A Record?

[Colin Colenso]

Ok it was 1885 when this occured in a game of English Billiards played on a snooker table. W.J. Peall made 634 spot shots, which is basically like potting the black off its spot. The black being about 3 feet from the pocket at an acute angle into a small pocket. Each time playing position for the re-spotted ball.

Here is a quote about the achievement:

A favourite of the old-time professionals who used it to make very large breaks until it was banned in 1898. It consisted of repeatedly potting the red ball off it's spot, and W. J. Peall was a master of it. He made 3,174 points by the stroke in a break of 3,304 in 1890, and 634 consecutive pots in a break of 1,922 in 1885.
Under the current rules the red can only be potted off it's spot twice. It is then respotted on the centre spot (or if occupied the Pyramid Spot); and if potted again it is then replaced on it's own spot. The maximimum number of consecutive pots now allowed is 15.

So how does this measure up to great runs by Mosconi et. al. This is rotation, not choice of balls, although relatively easy rotation, it was done on a 12' table with relatively tight 3.5" pockets (was the norm).

Go try this shot! If you make more than 10 you're doing well. My best is 47. If you get too low on position you have to run around a 12' table to get back in line. Too high and you keep getting higher and end up with a very difficult pot and up and down the table position which is a 1 in 10 shot.

More about W.J.Peall here:
http://www.cuesnviews.co.uk/Snooker/snookercollectWJPeall.htm

So, how impressive is this achievement, remembering that it was done on old feather stuffed cushions and with ivory balls?

 

[TheOne]

Ok it was 1885 when this occured in a game of English Billiards played on a snooker table. W.J. Peall made 634 spot shots, which is basically like potting the black off its spot. The black being about 3 feet from the pocket at an acute angle into a small pocket. Each time playing position for the re-spotted ball.

Here is a quote about the achievement:



So how does this measure up to great runs by Mosconi et. al. This is rotation, not choice of balls, although relatively easy rotation, it was done on a 12' table with relatively tight 3.5" pockets (was the norm).

Go try this shot! If you make more than 10 you're doing well. My best is 47. If you get too low on position you have to run around a 12' table to get back in line. Too high and you keep getting higher and end up with a very difficult pot and up and down the table position which is a 1 in 10 shot.

More about W.J.Peall here:
http://www.cuesnviews.co.uk/Snooker/snookercollectWJPeall.htm

So, how impressive is this achievement, remembering that it was done on old feather stuffed cushions and with ivory balls?

It is impressive mate but it can hardly be called rotation with just one object ball on the table! As you said its not that difficult to do until you get too high or too low then you need to pull out a good shot to get back into prime position. To me what's impressive about it is doing it so long ago with crap equipment.

 

[Colin Colenso]

It is impressive mate but it can hardly be called rotation with just one object ball on the table! As you said its not that difficult to do until you get too high or too low then you need to pull out a good shot to get back into prime position. To me what's impressive about it is doing it so long ago with crap equipment.

Well it' kind of rotation. Only one ball to choose for position on each shot. Whereas in a 14.1 break, you can play for a few options on most shots.

Anyway, the main point of bringing this up was for general interest. It is quite a feat, especially given the time it was done and the likely crappy equipment it was done on. Those old pros certainly had to work hard to get some dinner on the table!

One point I though someone might bring up is that these spot players could often develop a groove in the cloth, which meant they could cheat the angle a bit on soft shots and the OB would hug the groove. If you can get on just the right angle (about 7/8) ball, you can play slow roll through shots from side to side, keeping the same angle.

Anyway, hope someone gives it a try and sees how hard it is. Running 10 in a row is about equivalent to a 9-ball ghost run out for most players I think. So it's like this guy beat the ghost 63 times in a row. Albeit, he didn't have to deal with any tricky clusters.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Ok it was 1885 when this occured in a game of English Billiards played on a snooker table. W.J. Peall made 634 spot shots, which is basically like potting the black off its spot. ..

The record listing I have from someone who seems to know what he's talking about (one J. Bennett) is 721 consecutive reds. See

http://www.eaba.co.uk/books/bennett/bennettBilliards1899.html

for details. Also listed there is the fact that Peall had one run of 184 shots in which he kept a straight in shot with draw, shooting the red always into the same pocket and drawing straight back.

As someone else has pointed out, this is nothing like rotation. Maybe you can change the title of this thread.

 

[TheOne]

The record listing I have from someone who seems to know what he's talking about (one J. Bennett) is 721 consecutive reds. See

http://www.eaba.co.uk/books/bennett/bennettBilliards1899.html

for details. Also listed there is the fact that Peall had one run of 184 shots in which he kept a straight in shot with draw, shooting the red always into the same pocket and drawing straight back.

As someone else has pointed out, this is nothing like rotation. Maybe you can change the title of this thread.

Yes didnt want to say it Colin but when people talk about "rotation" they are talking about games such as 9 ball, 7 ball, but more often than not true rotation which is game mainly played in the phillipines. BAsically all 15 balls and you have to play them in order, eg 1 then 2 then 3. It is also a points scoring game, eg if you run 1 through 5 you score 15 points, the player at the end of the rack with the most points wins that game. Its extreemly difficult to run a rack, but the likes of Efren has run several racks in a row. THis requires amazing cue ball control but also more often than not that extra magic to be able to play combinations and caroms as even the best might not get perfect position with so many balls on the table. TO compare potting 1 red off the spot no matter how many was ran in a row is, well just not right!

My initial impression was if you cue well drawing the ball back tens of times in a row is not that hard. One drill I used to play for example was potting the pink in the side and drawing the cue ball back to scratch in the corner pocket. This is much harder than simply staying on the black ball and I think a pro could probably do it 100 times in a row.

Still, having said all that its still a great feat.

 

[Banker Burt]

The good old days

My great uncle, who was born in 1901, was a snooker player from Canada. Virtually an unknown, he was very well known within the Elks Lodge community. He was also the person who got me started playing when I was ten.

His name was Ed Krueger. I asked his son Eddie Ray one time just how good his dad was in his heyday. He told me this story while uncle Ed was in the room listening.

The current Canadian champion periodically visited the local Elks Lodge. Each time he would challenge anyone in the house but they would have to play for a penny a point. Everyone kept pressing Ed to play the champion but Ed declined because he did not like gambling.

Finally, on one occasion the champion "Woofed" at Ed saying that he didn't like gambling because he was afraid to lose, since he was the best player in the area.

Apparently this got Ed's goat and he said something to the effect, that is not true so let's play but since you are a champion then you won't mind playing wild pink. The champion agreed and they got started.

Somewhere in the match uncle Ed took off on the pink, ran 100 and stopped shooting it, threw his cue on the table and said, "I'm tired." He also added, "Oh you can keep your 6 bucks."

I asked Ed, "Was this true?" He only looked at me and smiled.

 

[Colin Colenso]

The record listing I have from someone who seems to know what he's talking about (one J. Bennett) is 721 consecutive reds. See

http://www.eaba.co.uk/books/bennett/bennettBilliards1899.html

for details. Also listed there is the fact that Peall had one run of 184 shots in which he kept a straight in shot with draw, shooting the red always into the same pocket and drawing straight back.

As someone else has pointed out, this is nothing like rotation. Maybe you can change the title of this thread.

Thanks for the info Bob. It's strange then that it always seems to be J.P. Peall who gets all the mentions regarding the spot shot.

Anyway, of course I know this is not Rotation in the commonly used sense. It was simply a headline to draw attention, so as to get a response as to how players would rate this performance.

That 184 draw shots is pretty impressive. Though be probaby had some serious tracks running to the pocket.

 

[LastTwo]

I just can't imagine anyone doing that, but if that really did happen, wow that is incredible.

 

[titlistsucker]

If u have thought WJ PEall was good playing English Billiards. Try Reading about Walter Lindrum, which IMHO was the time best CUEIST in the world bar none. He was so good, he had to gave his peers sizable handicaps in the World Championships. So good, he was making 3000+ points breaks, when 1000+ breaks was an achievement by his fellow peers.So good he effectively killed the sport he so loved. So good, he retired uncontested as world champion in 1953, as nobody thought they stood a chance against him...

http://www.eaba.co.uk/articles/walterLindrum/walterLindrumProfile.html

here's his grave, fitting for a champion of his times...

imagine that when he was 12, his father forced his to practise with 2 balls. the white ball one the line, to hit the red ball in the blue spot, who will strike the top cushion and back to hit the white which was stopped at the blue spot. the white ball would travel back and hit his cue stick. that was how straight his cueing was...

he played snooker in a exhibition in his later years, and made a 143 break, when during that time Joe hadnt made that break yet.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Nice photo titlistsucker,
Yes, Walter is a true legend from Melbourne, Australia, close to where I grew up.

I remember he took the World Title Trophy back to Australia and demanded that the English must travel there to play for it.

Also, I think you are confusing that snooker tid-bit with Walter's brother Horace Lindrum who was also a great billiards player and who along with Joe Davis led the charge in taking Snooker to new levels.

 

[titlistsucker]

didnt confuse with Horace, who was the chief adversary to Joe Davis those snooker days. Walter did made a very high break that was documented but not as a record due to the rules that require that for a record to be satisfied certain conditions must be adhered to. i may have got the figure slightly off though..
Horace had a similar high break that was also not recognised to his dismay, due to some conditions not made. this was a sour point and was hightlighted by Horace in his book .. Many people remembered DAvis, but not Horace chiefly becos of the marketing skill that davis had.. and not skill on the table in my opinion..

All in all the Walter Family produced many masters on billiards.