hammer stroke

[Pidge]

I'm trying hard to imagine a cue in this guy's hand. I think the pictures shown are somewhat misleading, unless he was holding a hammer or fly swatter.
There's no way he could thrust a cue forward with that hand action. I understand the reasoning but the picture needs to show a downward arm position.

Imagining a hammer is quite misleading when applying it to a pool stroke. The elbow extending with a hammer where as the biceps shorten and the triceps elongate during a pool stroke is the opposite arm movement.

The easiest way to do it is to have the forearm hanging by your side stood up and move your wrist so make your index and thum knuckles go forward, infront of the forearm. That's the starting position and the wrist naturally gets pushed back when you follow through. You generate very little power by just the wrist movement alone when hitting a ball, I'd be suprised if anyone can get it more than a foot, but CJ insists it adds power to a stroke.

I can't see how it does personally, and haven't experienced it when playing, so I do pretty much the opposite and can get the CB to travel 2ft with just wrist movement alone.

 

[West Point 1987]

Think of the pressure points in your hand when you hit the nail...there's pressure from the handle against the pads at the base of your index finger and thumb, and pressure against the pinky and ring fingers...in opposite directions. That torque you apply to the descending hammer is the same torque you put on the cue in your grip hand as it comes right up to the CB. An effect is a slight downward pressure of the shaft into your bridge hand as the cue comes forward. The snap (inperceptible to an observer, but you feel it in your hand) comes just before contact with the CB. It's a burst of acceleration. The force of the acceleration of the snap is redirected from the downward vector on your bridge forward through the CB (since the cue can't go down, the real motion is forward at this point). There's a benefit to this in keeping the cue straight in the "slot-groove" CJ describes, as there's some downward pressure on the bridge hand. This is what is meant by feeling the shot with both hands...the bridge just isn't a prop, it's a fulcrum that helps keep the track straight and redirects that downward torque forward through the CB.

I know it's not intuitive, but once it "clicks" for you (it took me quite a while), you'll see how much more touch you get and how there really is a lot more force available for you to draw or force follow with the CB. It's also easier to "pin" the CB with this technique (at least for me), but that's another topic....

 

[CJ Wiley]

This is a very exaggerated version of what the "Hammer Stroke" technique really is.

I'm trying hard to imagine a cue in this guy's hand. I think the pictures shown are somewhat misleading, unless he was holding a hammer or fly swatter.
There's no way he could thrust a cue forward with that hand action. I understand the reasoning but the picture needs to show a downward arm position.

Of course this picture's misleading, if it wasn't everyone would get it. If someone can't see the motion in an exaggerated form, how could they see it in a subtle demonstration? The key element is taking how the wrists already provide the most power and applying it to the pool stroke, golf stroke, baseball swing, etc.

This is what's happening in the modern era, body parts are being clearly defined, strengthened and systematically applied to all the sports and games.....so the athletes can perform at a higher level by simply utilizing the body's moving parts more efficiently and effectively.

Once you can see how the motion applies to the pool stroke you'll always wonder why you couldn't see it in the first place.....it's like "marked cards," you can ONLY seen them if you know they are there....and once you know they are there you can't see much else besides them......it's just how our subconscious operates for the most part.

Imagine the picture rolled over to the right, so his arm/forearm/wrist is in more of a pool shooting position. This is a very exaggerated version of what the "Hammer Stroke" really is, of course in the pool stroke the wrist movement is hard to see clearly.....however, that doesn't make it any less important to do it well, like Hank Haney demonstrates in the golf stroke.

With the correct movement the tip continues down (on the same path) in the follow through, if it cocked up like many say it does it would raise, especially in the open hand bridge. When you release the wrist down (like a hammer) it makes the tip go down as well in the follow through and allows you to "PIN" the cue ball with the top edge of the TIP.

 

[sfleinen]

I'm trying hard to imagine a cue in this guy's hand. I think the pictures shown are somewhat misleading, unless he was holding a hammer or fly swatter.
There's no way he could thrust a cue forward with that hand action. I understand the reasoning but the picture needs to show a downward arm position.

Ralph:

Perhaps I can help -- take a look a couple posts down from the one you quoted. Specifically, post #33:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=4330214#post4330214

Go to the link mentioned therein (which will take you to another thread that I created) to help explain -- using an alternative "non-bumper sticker, non-fortune cookie" explanation -- how this hammer stroke works.

I truly understand the confusion, because the wrist motion is completely contrary to the motion of the cue. You would think that the wrist motion would be more closely analogous to holding a hammer upside-down (hammer's face facing up towards the sky), and hammering a nail to the underside of a table using an upward flick motion. Actually, it's the process of cocking your wrist back -- just like you were using a tack hammer to drive carpet tacks -- and then using pure wrist to "push down" upon your bridge hand, letting your biceps "passively allow" the cue to be driven forward as part of the motion.

In other words, use your wrist to push the cue shaft down upon your bridge, and "let" the cue slide forward as a result of the downward pressure.

Again, click that link above and let me know what you think,
-Sean

 

[(((Satori)))]

I'm trying hard to imagine a cue in this guy's hand. I think the pictures shown are somewhat misleading, unless he was holding a hammer or fly swatter.
There's no way he could thrust a cue forward with that hand action. I understand the reasoning but the picture needs to show a downward arm position.

In the picture you were wondering about I think C.J. wants you to focus on the wrist action. In A his wrist is cocked one way and in B his wrist action cocks his wrist the other way. As long as you just focus on the wrist you will understand the action he is talking about.

The picture gets confusing because the guy is not in a pool shooting stance and his arm action is the exact opposite of a pool stroke so don't try to picture a pool cue in his hands because picture A has the guy in a follow through position and picture B has the guy in a backstroke position.

Basically what I am saying is if you want to understand the wrist action, get in your stance and put your arm in the backstroke position and your wrist cocked like position
A and then stroke through to the follow through position and transition your wrist to position B.

 

[CJ Wiley]

as you're hitting the cue ball your performing an motion like throwing a dart.

Ralph:

Perhaps I can help -- take a look a couple posts down from the one you quoted. Specifically, post #33:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=4330214#post4330214

Go to the link mentioned therein (which will take you to another thread that I created) to help explain -- using an alternative "non-bumper sticker, non-fortune cookie" explanation -- how this hammer stroke works.

I truly understand the confusion, because the wrist motion is completely contrary to the motion of the cue. You would think that the wrist motion would be more closely analogous to holding a hammer upside-down (hammer's face facing up towards the sky), and hammering a nail to the underside of a table using an upward flick motion. Actually, it's the process of cocking your wrist back -- just like you were using a tack hammer to drive carpet tacks -- and then using pure wrist to "push down" upon your bridge hand, letting your biceps "passively allow" the cue to be driven forward as part of the motion.

In other words, use your wrist to push the cue shaft down upon your bridge, and "let" the cue slide forward as a result of the downward pressure.

Again, click that link above and let me know what you think,
-Sean

That's correct Sean.....it's like as you're hitting the cue ball your performing a motion like throwing a dart....or hammering a nail.

It's the opposite of what most people think....I'm simply trying to get players to "real eyes" the difference, then I will show them how to refine and enhance this motion/movement. It truly is amazing to see players catch on to this technique and how it immediately enhances their games, stokes and attitudes. 'The Game is Their Teacher'

 

[CJ Wiley]

in the pool stroke it's invisible to the untrained eye.

In the picture you were wondering about I think C.J. wants you to focus on the wrist action. In A his wrist is cocked one way and in B his wrist action cocks his wrist the other way. As long as you just focus on the wrist you will understand the action he is talking about.

The picture gets confusing because the guy is not in a pool shooting stance and his arm action is the exact opposite of a pool stroke so don't try to picture a pool cue in his hands because picture A has the guy in a follow through position and picture B has the guy in a backstroke position.

Basically what I am saying is if you want to understand the wrist action, get in your stance and put your arm in the backstroke position and your wrist cocked like position
A and then stroke through to the follow through position and transition your wrist to position B.

That's right, just be aware that the motion is very subtle, I exaggerate it so it can be seen, in the pool stroke it's invisible to the untrained eye. 'The Game shows you How"

 

[Ralph Kramden]

Sfleinen.. (((Satori))).. CJ

I get the wrist action... Thanks. Just thought the picture was NOT worth a thousand words.
A pronounced picture of the bent wrist angle on the cue would've been much better IMHO.

I do not hold the cue with 4 fingers, but if I did it would be a feeling of pulling the little finger
toward my wrist when I stroke the cue, if it sounds correct, lndex finger down, little finger up.

 

[sfleinen]

Sfleinen.. (((Satori))).. CJ

I get the wrist action... Thanks. Just thought the picture was NOT worth a thousand words.
A pronounced picture of the bent wrist angle on the cue would've been much better IMHO.

I do not hold the cue with 4 fingers, but if I did it would be a feeling of pulling the little finger
toward my wrist when I stroke the cue, if it sounds correct, lndex finger down, little finger up.

If you were to hold a tack hammer with all four fingers, yes, you would have to do that -- the fingers "at the back of" the hand would pull upwards on the butt. The grip with the index/thumb (or index+middle/thumb) is that of a "pinch" on the sides on the cue, allowing that sort of "pivot" to take place.

Again, I don't use this stroke anymore, because I lost the sense of accurate touch with it -- e.g. being able to precisely lag the cue ball from one end of the table to the other, and have the cue ball stop precisely at or very close to (within an inch) of the rail. Because the hand has to exert a little bit of pressure to apply the downward force (that allows the cue to "slip" forward on the bridge), this precise touch is lost.

In summary: give it a try -- give it the good ol' boy scout try, in fact (for a couple weeks) -- and if it's not for you, it's not for you.

Hope this is helpful,
-Sean

 

[CJ Wiley]

It's these fundamentals that must be correct to play at a high level consistently.

Sfleinen.. (((Satori))).. CJ

I get the wrist action... Thanks. Just thought the picture was NOT worth a thousand words.
A pronounced picture of the bent wrist angle on the cue would've been much better IMHO.

I do not hold the cue with 4 fingers, but if I did it would be a feeling of pulling the little finger
toward my wrist when I stroke the cue, if it sounds correct, lndex finger down, little finger up.

This technique isn't so easy that you can learn it by yourself in a few hours. There's some training that goes into creating the right motion

My quickest success has been using a sword to teach the exact motion of the hand/wrist/fingers .... the problem with using your cue is the fact that you're anchored to doing it one way and it's very difficult to do it in a different manner.

Some conditioning is hard to overcome, it would be like driving on the opposite side of the road, you can do it, but it would be easier with a different car.....preferably one that had the steering wheel on the appropriate side.

In this case a person that has a trained eye watching your progress will help you stay on "the right side of the road (stroke)". Using the sword to enhance the muscle memory development I can teach this along with the TOI Technique in 12-15 hours...this may seem like a long time, but it will build a permanent foundation in your game and many players jump up two levels within 3 weeks. For testimonials about TOI and the Hammer Stroke go to www.cjwiley.com or email me at thegameistheteacher@gmail.com

The other key element is the alignment of the forearm to the cue, hand and shoulder, if this isn't done correctly it's going to affect your ability to release the wrist effectively. The actual game of pool is really pretty easy to understand, it's these fundamentals that must be correct to play at a high level consistently.

 

[CJ Wiley]

Make sure you have the right "sword"

Ah, c'mon, Tony. We never heard about the sword stroke training all the pros have been secretly using for decades, either. Ever stop to think maybe everything is true... somewhere?

FWIW I happen to have a few swords in my possession, so I gave the CJ stab-stroke method a try. He's right, you do need special one-on-one instruction for safety sake. I tore a two foot gash in my new Simonis, pierced a perfectly good measles ball, and nearly cut off my f*cking thumb!

If you really want to explore this avenue without the help of a certified specialist I suggest you substitute something else for the sword, like maybe a pool cue.

Make sure you have the right "sword"

 

[ENGLISH!]

Think of the pressure points in your hand when you hit the nail...there's pressure from the handle against the pads at the base of your index finger and thumb, and pressure against the pinky and ring fingers...in opposite directions. That torque you apply to the descending hammer is the same torque you put on the cue in your grip hand as it comes right up to the CB. An effect is a slight downward pressure of the shaft into your bridge hand as the cue comes forward. The snap (inperceptible to an observer, but you feel it in your hand) comes just before contact with the CB. It's a burst of acceleration. The force of the acceleration of the snap is redirected from the downward vector on your bridge forward through the CB (since the cue can't go down, the real motion is forward at this point). There's a benefit to this in keeping the cue straight in the "slot-groove" CJ describes, as there's some downward pressure on the bridge hand. This is what is meant by feeling the shot with both hands...the bridge just isn't a prop, it's a fulcrum that helps keep the track straight and redirects that downward torque forward through the CB.

I know it's not intuitive, but once it "clicks" for you (it took me quite a while), you'll see how much more touch you get and how there really is a lot more force available for you to draw or force follow with the CB. It's also easier to "pin" the CB with this technique (at least for me), but that's another topic....

Fairly well said.

I am learning that like CJ has said, there are those that have eyes to see & hears to hear & then there are those that simply do not.

You can lead a horse to water but you can not make him drink.

Best Wishes,
Rick

 

[ENGLISH!]

"passively allow"

___________

 

[Mikjary]

Are you saying that cueing the ball above center causes it to jump more? There are a few factors involved in jumping the cue ball and you can do it with an elevated cue hitting it high or low - being able to do both will help with positioning after the "jump shot".

Wade Crane, who had one of the best breaks of all time, was the master of jumping the cue ball into the rack on the break shot. I've seen photos of Wade's break and ALL the object balls come off the table after impact and the cue ball jumped sometimes 2 feet into the air and came down in the center of the table.

When hitting the break at high speeds it's going to be traveling through the air rather than rolling on the cloth.....experimenting with hitting the cue ball at different "Tip Targets" will help develop a break that can conform to any type table. Wade also told me he "aims" at the cue ball last.....only on the break and when jacked up over an object ball.....all other times he looked at the object ball last. "Food For Thought" 'The Game is the Teacher'

This was posted a couple of days ago and I waited to see if there were going to be any reactions from it. Nichts, nada, bupkis.

In 5 games of nine ball, how many times will we be jacked up when we stroke? Say, 3 to 4 times on average? Add in a draw shot or middle cue ball stroke when the cue ball's on the rail. That's around 10% of our shots. Do we make them all or play safe if we're jacked up as a norm?

I'm not trying to be smug, but this is a huge tip! I was given this gift by a player long ago and I make a large percentage of my jacked up shots. I have no fear of them. It sounds too simple to be true. Work with it and you'll see what CJ means.



Best,
Mike

 

[RADAR]

Seconded :thumbup:

I WILL 3RD THAT! :bash:

 

[CJ Wiley]

you can see Efren Reyes doing this is you watch his "eye access patterns".

Originally Posted by CJ Wiley View Post
Are you saying that cueing the ball above center causes it to jump more? There are a few factors involved in jumping the cue ball and you can do it with an elevated cue hitting it high or low - being able to do both will help with positioning after the "jump shot".

Wade Crane, who had one of the best breaks of all time, was the master of jumping the cue ball into the rack on the break shot. I've seen photos of Wade's break and ALL the object balls come off the table after impact and the cue ball jumped sometimes 2 feet into the air and came down in the center of the table.

When hitting the break at high speeds it's going to be traveling through the air rather than rolling on the cloth.....experimenting with hitting the cue ball at different "Tip Targets" will help develop a break that can conform to any type table. Wade also told me he "aims" at the cue ball last.....only on the break and when jacked up over an object ball.....all other times he looked at the object ball last. "Food For Thought" 'The Game is the Teacher'

This was posted a couple of days ago and I waited to see if there were going to be any reactions from it. Nichts, nada, bupkis.

In 5 games of nine ball, how many times will we be jacked up when we stroke? Say, 3 to 4 times on average? Add in a draw shot or middle cue ball stroke when the cue ball's on the rail. That's around 10% of our shots. Do we make them all or play safe if we're jacked up as a norm?

I'm not trying to be smug, but this is a huge tip! I was given this gift by a player long ago and I make a large percentage of my jacked up shots. I have no fear of them. It sounds too simple to be true. Work with it and you'll see what CJ means.

View attachment 292914 View attachment 292915

Best,
Mike

Yes, you can see Efren doing this is you watch his "eye access patterns". He's been quoted as saying he looks at the cue ball last, however, I only notice if on these particular shots......when you must hit the cue ball precisely with little margin of error.

 

[CJ Wiley]

.in pool it's just so subtle you can't really see it happening like you do in golf

Can someone post a youtube video showing this hammer stroke?

I wonder if it is what i already do.

Thanks, Pete

Most people will do their own variation of this motion, it's just how the wrist is utilized to create force.....using an axe, a sword, a hammer, and even casting a rod and reel is the same motion.....in pool it's just so subtle you can't really see it happening like you can in other sports or games (like golf).

The point I'm making is this movement can be improved in most player's games if they understand more specifically how their hand/wrist/forearm is producing cue acceleration. This is what can elevate your game very quickly just like a better motion will improve your golf game or tennis stroke immediately.....without learning anything more about the game.