Handicapped tournaments that rate players based on their league rating. Fair or not?

BmoreMoney said:
This is great let me tell you!!!! Forget Fargo....... We need SHOTGO!!! Pun intended! My ranking will be based on how many shots I have taken prematch. This would be AWESOME I tell you lol. Sounds funny but I'm being serious!!!
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You'd have to change your name here to DmoreShots
 
Str8PoolMan said:
Why can't we have both. Golf has plenty of tournaments that are both handicapped and open. Pool can have the same thing. It's not going to breed mediocrity. It's going to give some casual players a chance to compete with better players without having to put in years of blood and sweat. No one is going to sit around and think, "hey, I'm not going to try to get any better at this game so I have a better chance to win that tournament." I can tell you, that certainly isn't how the players feel in golf. Not trying to improve doesn't give a better chance of success anyway.

Bowling is another example of handicaps not breeding mediocrity among the players. I've have bowled in several leagues, and I have never met anyone that did not want to improve and lower their handicap.

Now basing player handicaps on their league rating may not be fair, depending on how many different leagues are represented, or if the league's rating system is flawed. I have never played a handicap league, so this is just anecdotal evidence, but the main reason I hear for people sandbagging in pool is because of the max team rating rule that causes teams to have to split up. Again, I am not claiming that is gospel, just that it is what I hear most about here on AZB.

I prefer no handicap when playing, but that is just my personal preference. I am (gasp!) liberal enough to accommodate all types of play in this sport that I love.
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Not necessarily talking about league or tournaments, but honestly IMHO in gambling there is a " sweet spot ". What I mean by that is being a mid tier guy. Good enough you can give the spots to lower players and still win with it and sucky enough you can still get good weight from the big boys and be able to take advantage of it and cash.

Here's how I see it - when you suck, lower level players like APA 5'S, 6'S, MAYBE EVEN 7'S it pretty much doesn't matter what the spot they get they're gonna lose. Partially knowledge but most times no heart or nervousness. When you get REAL good most of the time to get action you have to give up ridiculous weight just to get action and only real chance is to outrun the nuts, all the time. I think the sweet spot is right in the middle.
 
My experience in handicap tournaments is the top player outruns the handicap most of the time, especially in a game like 9 ball with winner breaks.
 
Corwyn_8 said:
How is that different from paying him for lessons?

Would you make the bets as small as possible or as large as possible?

Thank you kindly.
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I would love to take lessons from him, for the entry fee of a tournament. Gambling is far different than a tournament, a tournament allows players the chance to match up with much better players for a pre-set amount, which is usually much cheaper than what they could match up for it they attempted to gamble with them. An aspiring good player should have the sack to pony up at a tournament, without insisting on a handicap.
 
Mrdodd72 said:
I would love to take lessons from him, for the entry fee of a tournament. Gambling is far different than a tournament, a tournament allows players the chance to match up with much better players for a pre-set amount, which is usually much cheaper than what they could match up for it they attempted to gamble with them. An aspiring good player should have the sack to pony up at a tournament, without insisting on a handicap.
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Sack to waste time and money? I don't think that's how it works.
 
Banks said:
Sack to waste time and money? I don't think that's how it works.
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If you believe that playing much better players are a "waste of time and money", then you will not understand the competitive nature of someone who is passionate about becoming the best player they possibly can, and I doubt I could explain it to you.
 
Mrdodd72 said:
I would love to take lessons from him, for the entry fee of a tournament. Gambling is far different than a tournament, a tournament allows players the chance to match up with much better players for a pre-set amount, which is usually much cheaper than what they could match up for it they attempted to gamble with them. An aspiring good player should have the sack to pony up at a tournament, without insisting on a handicap.
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So its all about d!ck measuring, how unexpected. So if you got to play Efren you would bet everything you had on the first game to show off your genitals?

Thank you kindly.
 
The strength of the league is important. I played in a B league last year and had the highest average, but in the A league, I would have been much lower.

While in college, there was one league of about 16 teams. There were two or three teams contending for first, then another tier of 4 to 6 teams who played evenly. There were several matches where we won all 15 games against the bottom ranked teams.

The last year, I put together a team with two minors on it who could only play at the home location. We had two ringers who mostly played when we matched up against the top teams. This kept their averages down, and they even received handicap from players they were better than. We won that year by two rounds.

In the VNEA, I think there should be a minimum ranking when figuring the handicap. The better players should not be lower than 8 on a 10 pt game, and no one should be below a 4 or 5.
 
joe76195 said:
I will say it again. Bar boxes are NOT pool tables !
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LOL, why is that?

I just did a google search for pool tables and many of them came up so you may want to let Google know they are giving false positives and then inform all those pool table dealers they are fraudulently selling something under false pretense.
 
So hypothetically playing Efren until you are broke is pushing yourself,but playing an under handicapped 4 in a bar tourney is not?
 
Corwyn_8 said:
So its all about d!ck measuring, how unexpected. So if you got to play Efren you would bet everything you had on the first game to show off your genitals?

Thank you kindly.
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I never mentioned anything about gambling, or betting above someone's pay grade.

We're talking about tournaments. That is the beauty of tournaments, you can play good players without betting the farm.

Adversity breeds excellence. I would gladly pony up the cash to play in a tournament against top players, and wouldn't cry about not having a handicap.
It's the price I would pay for the chance to learn from advanced players.

If you are not that motivated to improve, that's your loss.
 
us820 said:
So hypothetically playing Efren until you are broke is pushing yourself,but playing an under handicapped 4 in a bar tourney is not?
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It's not even close.

I promise you that I would learn much more, and push myself much harder against Efren than I would spoting some banger the world at a handicapped tournament. Anyone would.

This is why strictly "league players" progress so slowly, at least at the slightly above average levels. The handicap systems, well...handicaps them.
 
Mrdodd72 said:
I never mentioned anything about gambling, or betting above someone's pay grade.

We're talking about tournaments. That is the beauty of tournaments, you can play good players without betting the farm.

Adversity breeds excellence. I would gladly pony up the cash to play in a tournament against top players, and wouldn't cry about not having a handicap.
It's the price I would pay for the chance to learn from advanced players.

If you are not that motivated to improve, that's your loss.
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So, you only learn against the better players that you play once in a while? That's unfortunate.

No wonder some people progress so slowly.

That's what you mean, right?
 
Banks said:
So, you only learn against the better players that you play once in a while? That's unfortunate.

No wonder some people progress so slowly.

That's what you mean, right?
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No that's not what I mean, that's what you're inferring.

I didn't say I "only" learn against better players. I said I would learn much more playing against a better player, than I would a banger.

People who quit, or refuse to participate in tournaments because the competition is too stiff limit themselves and miss out on an opportunity to learn; thus will learn at a much slower rate.
 
Mrdodd72 said:
People who quit, or refuse to participate in tournaments because the competition is too stiff limit themselves and miss out on an opportunity to learn; thus will learn at a much slower rate.
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I would ever say it is OK to quit in the middle of anything ever, but I would strongly disagree with the rest of your statement.

Getting into a tournament with much better players only teaches you to not get in a tournament with much better players. You are NOT going to learn a single other thing.
You are not going to learn to shoot better, you are not going to learn to play better position, nor are you going to learn new run out patterns. What you are going to learn to do is sit there and be patient hoping you get to shoot again and probably how to get out of a good safe "sometimes".

It is like all those clowns out there that think a good warm up or practice session is playing games. Worse that is doing so by playing games against players that give them maybe one shot and it was probably a difficult one after they were safetied.
 
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