Happened once again, not happy

Dave38

Dave38

theemperorhasnoclotheson
Silver Member
I bought a total of 8 fullspliced butt blanks awhile back from a supplier. I slowly worked them to get the points even, but some seem to have been cut/made incorrectly, they have the longest and the shortest point next to each other. I got them pretty close, then refaced and recenter drilled the forearm side, and take the next pass, and they are way off again. I put them aside for about 9 months as I have been busy with other things. I just started to work them again, and now I get to the finish size and whola, gaps in the splices:mad: This has happened to three of them so far. On top of it, 3 of these blanks are close to final size and they have twisted at the splice, without enough meat left to cut it out. I store them hanging in my basement which stays around 70 degrees, and about 50-55% humidity. I'm not happy with this. Am I the only person to encounter this? I didn't pay hugh $$$ for these, but one would expect better % of usuable blanks than this, from an established supplier. I have had these for about a year, so returning them probably isn't possible, and I don't want replacements from them, as they will probably be just the same crap.
What is the best way to fix the gaps problem? They are about 1/32" wide and go up about 3-4" of the points. I have used wood filler on one, but it was noticable if you looked closely. It seems to be the base wood, not the maple forearm wood that is off.
Sorry for my rant, but it sucks to lose money on the product and all the time involved, just to make some fancy looking fire pokers:frown:
Dave
 
The only answer I have is don't work from other people's blanks. My first cue was with points and veneers (horrible, but built 100% by me) and I refuse every conversion request I get. I know how to do my points and I know what to expect working on them. Anybody building full splice blanks to sell are building them as quickly and as cheaply as possible. Otherwise, they're not making any money on them. If you do your own, either pointed or non pointed cues, you have control over everything from start to finish.
 
I would not say that everyone who is building blanks is building them as quickly and as cheaply as possible. That is a pretty broad brush you are painting with Tony. There are folks out there who take pride in their work and try to provide quality products at a reasonable price. There is also some nasty junk out there. I remember someone once told me "You get what you pay for and sooner or later you pay for what you get." As far as the gaps are concerned, perhaps you could do some sort of inlay over them?? It's hard to say without seeing them. Good luck and let us know what you come up with Dave
 
I have had thesse problems before. It is imposible to see into the middle of a point, whether full splice or "V"cut. Voids in the glue happen. I added diamond inlays that covered the void area. Move on & use another supplier. At least you can salvage the butts & make a sale...JER
 
tsp&b said:
I would not say that everyone who is building blanks is building them as quickly and as cheaply as possible. That is a pretty broad brush you are painting with Tony. There are folks out there who take pride in their work and try to provide quality products at a reasonable price. There is also some nasty junk out there. I remember someone once told me "You get what you pay for and sooner or later you pay for what you get." As far as the gaps are concerned, perhaps you could do some sort of inlay over them?? It's hard to say without seeing them. Good luck and let us know what you come up with Dave
Click to expand...

I get your point. However, I doubt that Dave bought 10 blanks from somebody charging a premium for their work. I seriously doubt that anybody selling a full splice blank for $30-$50 is going to go the extra mile to ensure you are getting top quality.

I don't build bull splice cues, so I don't know exactly how long it takes from start to finish, but at those prices, you can't be making more than $20-$30 on them and I'm sure it's more than an hours work to build one.

Bottom line is I don't trust anything I don't build myself.
 
Dave38, you could make them into fancy toilet brushes, or a drain plungers, Part of a hat stand.Or else try and keep warm with them.
Xray will show sometimes flaws in woods and glue joints. But not all the time.
To me, you are buying a product it should be at least somewhere close to correct.
Can you PM who you got them from as a heads up for me to avoid.
I don't want to make the same mistake for firewood.
It is possible they had something go wrong and have now corrected it.Who knows.
Neil
 
conetip said:
It is possible they had something go wrong and have now corrected it.Who knows.
Neil
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I bought from them a few times, with about 8 months between. I originally bought 3 blanks, only one made it into a cue and I had to keep it due to the gap issues. I was told that they have a quality product by some members here on this board, and to give them a second chance. Well, I did, and have regretted it. I also bought other cue parts such as weight bolts and SS collars that the threads don't match any thread gage, english and metric, that I had. I called them and they took a day for their tech staff to get back to me and say" we just make the hole close to the size then ram it in without tapping, same with their collars. For being an american based, family company.........
I know a lot of people here won't deal with a certain Florida guy, for some good reasons, I will say I have bought a couple of his blanks and for the money, they have been flawless, and very even points. I don't know who he gets them from, but I wish I knew. Even the grain work was awesome.
I wish I could build my own full splice blanks, I agree with you on that one Tony, but not enough money for equipment, and no time to do it, just isn't going to happen.
I like the toilet plunger handle idea, not everyone has a cocobola handle on their plunger:grin:
Flushing with style
Dave
 
Just Sharpie the points.
Finish the cue.
Signt it EW and sell it for $65.
Make sure the shaft is at least 1/2" longer that the butt.:grin-square:
 
JoeyInCali said:
Just Sharpie the points.
Finish the cue.
Signt it EW and sell it for $65.
Make sure the shaft is at least 1/2" longer that the butt.:grin-square:
Click to expand...

Yeah and tell them I shipped it three weeks ago, with a partial refund.......in DaveBucks!:grin:
 
i feel your pain dave. since i did them 3 davis blanks i will not do anymore. people have asked and i say no. nothing against davis blanks but in general they are very hard to get perfect. if been aproached to do more and i turned it down. i tell them i wont do anymore i think even the top guys like joel or travis have less then perfect blanks. often youll see an inlay over the top of the point to hide this. from what i see atleast.

besides as stated before why pay 400$ for a blank then sell for 1000$. take that money build your own and sell that for 1000$. youre cutting your profit in half for the same amount of work almost.
 
Dave38 said:
I bought a total of 8 fullspliced butt blanks awhile back from a supplier. I slowly worked them to get the points even, but some seem to have been cut/made incorrectly, they have the longest and the shortest point next to each other. I got them pretty close, then refaced and recenter drilled the forearm side, and take the next pass, and they are way off again. I put them aside for about 9 months as I have been busy with other things. I just started to work them again, and now I get to the finish size and whola, gaps in the splices:mad: This has happened to three of them so far. On top of it, 3 of these blanks are close to final size and they have twisted at the splice, without enough meat left to cut it out. I store them hanging in my basement which stays around 70 degrees, and about 50-55% humidity. I'm not happy with this. Am I the only person to encounter this? I didn't pay hugh $$$ for these, but one would expect better % of usuable blanks than this, from an established supplier. I have had these for about a year, so returning them probably isn't possible, and I don't want replacements from them, as they will probably be just the same crap.
What is the best way to fix the gaps problem? They are about 1/32" wide and go up about 3-4" of the points. I have used wood filler on one, but it was noticable if you looked closely. It seems to be the base wood, not the maple forearm wood that is off.
Sorry for my rant, but it sucks to lose money on the product and all the time involved, just to make some fancy looking fire pokers:frown:
Dave
Click to expand...
The simple solution is you need to build them yourself. You are a cue builder build your own cues. Please don't someone say, "Then should I make my own screws also"? You know what I am getting at. Not every cue maker has the same tools of even the same skills. The important thing is to be the best at what "You" can do. I don't think remaking someone else's blanks and adding a shaft and finish constitutes the art cue building but rather just a way to make a buck. Just my opinion.
 
Thanks everyone for your replies. I will do the wood glue and sawdust. Unfortunatley, where the gaps are makes putting an inlay impossible. The gaps start down in the bottom and go up one side of the point, usually the left side is the worst. If it was the tip of the point, an inlay would be fine. I play in the APA league and most everyone wants a sneaky break cue, but most don't understand or care, about the work involved and therefore only want to pay $100-$150 for a cue. Up here in Mass. the average player thinks thats the highest it should cost. I made a couple for 2 close friends, and they turned out ok.
I am judging from the pm 's I got that this type of issue, and warping, is a hit or miss with suppliers, not a given with any particular one. I guess it's just something I gotta suckup if I'm going to buy any more. I will buy from a better source from here on out though, it may be more money, but less waste. BTW, I didn't buy these to 'cut corners' 'make a fast buck' etc. I just have enough people asking for them, or to cut down one piece bar sticks, that I thought I'd give it a shot as I don't have the time nor the space to make my own full splice blanks. I wish I did, as I think I would enjoy the challenge. If I did try, I would try to get the longest points, I personnally like points that go to about an inch from the joint. I am surprised that I don't see any that long.
Dave
 
macguy said:
The simple solution is you need to build them yourself. You are a cue builder build your own cues. Please don't someone say, "Then should I make my own screws also"? You know what I am getting at. Not every cue maker has the same tools of even the same skills. The important thing is to be the best at what "You" can do. I don't think remaking someone else's blanks and adding a shaft and finish constitutes the art cue building but rather just a way to make a buck. Just my opinion.
Click to expand...

While I don't disagree with you, remember Balabuska used blanks on a lot of his cues. Of course he chose the best to make them.
 
spktur said:
While I don't disagree with you, remember Balabuska used blanks on a lot of his cues. Of course he chose the best to make them.
Click to expand...

That is the justification a lot of cue makers like to point to but it doesn't hold water. Balabushka just made a cue as best he could. I doubt he even had an interest in doing much more then he was doing. Although it would be impossible to get inside his head now, I don't think he saw it as much more as a way to make a small living and he enjoyed it. Truth be told I am not so sure he was even that good. If he was around today building cues in his garage in the same way he probably could not give them away. His life and times were unique to him. Today there are a lot of very good cue makers.

Back to the original point though, why use someone else's blanks? Especially if you can build them yourself. If you can't then you need to do what you can do the best you can do it that reflects your one contribution to your art. For some reason cue makers have a way of jumping on every band wagon that comes along and not being individuals. Right now the conversions seems to be all the rage. There is nothing wrong with jumping on a band wagon, as long as you strive to be the best on the wagon. In other words, want to build a full splice butt, build it. Don't buy a blank built by someone else you have no quality control over and just sign your name.
 
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Dave38 said:
Thanks everyone for your replies. I will do the wood glue and sawdust. Unfortunatley, where the gaps are makes putting an inlay impossible. The gaps start down in the bottom and go up one side of the point, usually the left side is the worst. If it was the tip of the point, an inlay would be fine. I play in the APA league and most everyone wants a sneaky break cue, but most don't understand or care, about the work involved and therefore only want to pay $100-$150 for a cue. Up here in Mass. the average player thinks thats the highest it should cost. I made a couple for 2 close friends, and they turned out ok.
I am judging from the pm 's I got that this type of issue, and warping, is a hit or miss with suppliers, not a given with any particular one. I guess it's just something I gotta suckup if I'm going to buy any more. I will buy from a better source from here on out though, it may be more money, but less waste. BTW, I didn't buy these to 'cut corners' 'make a fast buck' etc. I just have enough people asking for them, or to cut down one piece bar sticks, that I thought I'd give it a shot as I don't have the time nor the space to make my own full splice blanks. I wish I did, as I think I would enjoy the challenge. If I did try, I would try to get the longest points, I personnally like points that go to about an inch from the joint. I am surprised that I don't see any that long.
Dave
Click to expand...

With what you say, are you buying blanks with veneers or just something like a house cue? The cost of a blank with veneers already has it out of the price range you are talking about. You can't really build a cue for $100.00 to $150.00 with a nice shaft and finish from a purchased blank and make anything on it.
 
macguy said:
With what you say, are you buying blanks with veneers or just something like a house cue? The cost of a blank with veneers already has it out of the price range you are talking about. You can't really build a cue for $100.00 to $150.00 with a nice shaft and finish from a purchased blank and make anything on it.
Click to expand...

I am just doing the plain house cue look. I sold 2 to close friends on my team for $140 each for 2 reasons, very close long time buddies, and to get my name out a little, but they agreed not to disclose the price and they have kept that deal. I really like the ones with the veneers, but figured I'd test the waters with the plain ones first. I actually had some one ask me recently for just the butt so they could put a new pred. 314 shaft to it. They only wanted to pay $75 for the butt.! I told them to just buy the complete cue from the same place they were buying the shaft from. It's amazing how cheap people can be.
Dave
 
Dave38 said:
I am just doing the plain house cue look. I sold 2 to close friends on my team for $140 each for 2 reasons, very close long time buddies, and to get my name out a little, but they agreed not to disclose the price and they have kept that deal. I really like the ones with the veneers, but figured I'd test the waters with the plain ones first. I actually had some one ask me recently for just the butt so they could put a new pred. 314 shaft to it. They only wanted to pay $75 for the butt.! I told them to just buy the complete cue from the same place they were buying the shaft from. It's amazing how cheap people can be.
Dave
Click to expand...
Depending on what kind of pool rooms you have around, you can often find good cues for conversions in the racks. Just buy them from the owner for a decent price. These are cues that have been played with for a few years and if they are reasonably straight and have enough meat in the butts to re-turn, they can make nice cue. I know they are few and far between but you can often find old tru-balence cues or other nice quality cues. I once went to look at a used pool table and although it turned out to not be what I was looking for, I almost fell over to see in the wall rack a dozen Titlist cues which I promptly bought. You never know what you will find in some of these old houses.
 
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macguy said:
That is the justification a lot of cue makers like to point to but it doesn't hold water. Balabushka just made a cue as best he could. I doubt he even had an interest in doing much more then he was doing. Although it would be impossible to get inside his head now, I don't think he saw it as much more as a way to make a small living and he enjoyed it. Truth be told I am not so sure he was even that good. If he was around today building cues in his garage in the same way he probably could not give them away. His life and times were unique to him. Today there are a lot of very good cue makers.

Back to the original point though, why use someone else's blanks? Especially if you can build them yourself. If you can't then you need to do what you can do the best you can do it that reflects your one contribution to your art. For some reason cue makers have a way of jumping on every band wagon that comes along and not being individuals. Right now the conversions seems to be all the rage. There is nothing wrong with jumping on a band wagon, as long as you strive to be the best on the wagon. In other words, want to build a full splice butt, build it. Don't buy a blank built by someone else you have no quality control over and just sign your name.
Click to expand...

While I agree with many of your assumptions as far as George are concerned and have voiced them more than once on this forum only to be martyred by the G/B worshipers I have to disagree with most of the rest of your content. I do believe a cue maker should build and use the best materials available to him and that is usually his own. Building full splice cue blanks however takes a very large commitment in time, machinery and money. Most don't want to make that commitment. After all, if it was so easy there would be more than 3 or 4 places selling full splice blanks and only 3 or 4 others set up to build there own which are used for their cues only. There are many who know how to build F/S blanks but don't have the resources nor desire to do so for cues that don't bring back that great of a return. If I was younger I would set up for building them as they have become more popular. Truthfully, I can't see how Schmelke can build them to sell and make a profit for a price as low as they do. For me to build my own, if I had the equipment, just the cost for the material in lengths of the wood needed and then wasted would make the cost to be as high, if not higher not counting the time and labor. The other suppliers, other than the Florida guy who, I believe just resells Schmelke blanks as his own, charge quite a bit more. It truly is a you get what you pay for item.

Dick
 
The other suppliers, other than the Florida guy who, I believe just resells Schmelke blanks as his own, charge quite a bit more. It truly is a you get what you pay for item.

Dick
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They look the same to me.
 
JoeyInCali said:
They look the same to me.
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I have both hanging in front of me, and IMO, they look quite different. I may be wrong, but unless Schmelke sells better quality blanks to people like Joe that buy in volume, then sells the junk to people like me, they are 2 different items. JMO. Which if that is what they do, I would be ashamed to be them....
Dave
 
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