Has anyone else tried this in competition?

[Andrew Manning]

So I sometimes have trouble (and I doubt I'm the only one) with "steering my stroke". What happens is I align carefully, and I trust my alignment, but sometimes I'm so concentrated on hitting my precise contact point that I'm still trying to fine-tune my aim even during my final stroke. In other words, instead of delivering a straight stroke, my arm muscles are still sort of second-guessing and making little adjustments to my aim, which I describe as "steering".

So not surprisingly, this usually makes me miss. So I've tried a new technique to try and prevent myself from getting in the way of my alignment and stroke mechanics, which I believe are very sound, at least for a C player. I've found it helps me on shots that require a very precise CB hit, such as long straight shots, or when I'm shooting off the rail.

The new technique? Closing my eyes. I align an practice stroke with my eyes open, looking back and forth between the cue ball to verify my tip placement and object ball to verify my aim. Once I'm satisfied (4-5 practice strokes when I'm in rhythm) that I'm aligned, I pause with my tip at the CB, shut my eyes, draw back and fire. Then I open my eyes to watch the ball fall in the pocket.

I used this during my league match last night and had a lot of success. I only shut my eyes for those demanding long or off-the-rail shots, but I didn't miss a shot with my eyes closed all match. I wasn't counting, but I think that's about 8-for-8 on shots which are lower-percentage for me usually.

Has anyone else found that closing their eyes can actually increase their accuracy sometimes?

-Andrew

 

[DEACON]

Andrew, I dont know about closing my eyes on shots but after aligning yourself and being in stroke, it shouldnt matter whether they are open closed or your head to the side. I will try this and see what happens. I have the same problem of steering and I have set up a few mirrors. after your shot stay down for an exaggerated amout of time to see where your tip is pointing and evaluate if you made/missed the shot. Im attempting with slow but positive success to stroke straight through whatever the aiming point is. funny thing is that I can feel when Im doing it and it is hard to correct. Practice is helping and a self video might even help. I will have to dust mine off. Mason

 

[9BallBust-O]

Well - I find that sometimes when I make a shot - if someone were watching, they might think I am playing with my eyes closed. =)

You know - each day b 4 I play I set up long rail shots shooting right off the rail --- making 4 then moving the object ball up one diamond and shoot 4 more --- move it up a diamond etc etc but each shot my cue ball is only about 1/2 inch off the rail ... ANYWAY this is where I really PAY ATTENTION to my stroke, esp my backswing. At times I fight the same problem you are talking about and it drives me NUTS - so tonight I am gonna try your new found system.

 

[CaptainJR]

Andrew
Congratulations on finding and becoming aware of what I believer to be the exact reason that causes most missed shots by C and above players. Now all you have to do is instill it into your stoke. Bringing your back hand straight through. I prescribe 30 pocketed very long straight in shots per day for the next sixty days.

 

[BRKNRUN]

So I sometimes have trouble (and I doubt I'm the only one) with "steering my stroke". What happens is I align carefully, and I trust my alignment, but sometimes I'm so concentrated on hitting my precise contact point that I'm still trying to fine-tune my aim even during my final stroke. In other words, instead of delivering a straight stroke, my arm muscles are still sort of second-guessing and making little adjustments to my aim, which I describe as "steering".

So not surprisingly, this usually makes me miss. So I've tried a new technique to try and prevent myself from getting in the way of my alignment and stroke mechanics, which I believe are very sound, at least for a C player. I've found it helps me on shots that require a very precise CB hit, such as long straight shots, or when I'm shooting off the rail.

The new technique? Closing my eyes. I align an practice stroke with my eyes open, looking back and forth between the cue ball to verify my tip placement and object ball to verify my aim. Once I'm satisfied (4-5 practice strokes when I'm in rhythm) that I'm aligned, I pause with my tip at the CB, shut my eyes, draw back and fire. Then I open my eyes to watch the ball fall in the pocket.

I used this during my league match last night and had a lot of success. I only shut my eyes for those demanding long or off-the-rail shots, but I didn't miss a shot with my eyes closed all match. I wasn't counting, but I think that's about 8-for-8 on shots which are lower-percentage for me usually.

Has anyone else found that closing their eyes can actually increase their accuracy sometimes?

-Andrew

I don't know that I would do that "during" a match...Actually I do know that I would not do that "during a match...


I use the exact method u describe for "practice" all the time.

I have developed it to where I acutally use draw / follow / english.

There is another benefit that you left out...It cures the "jump up"......With your eyes closed, you become "very" aware of any other body movement other than your back arm....

 

[CaptainJR]

Now all you have to do is instill it into your stoke.

Keeping it there is a different story (@%^#%^$^&#@#^!!**%$%^)

 

[Andrew Manning]

I don't know that I would do that "during" a match...Actually I do know that I would not do that "during a match...


I use the exact method u describe for "practice" all the time.

I have developed it to where I acutally use draw / follow / english.

There is another benefit that you left out...It cures the "jump up"......With your eyes closed, you become "very" aware of any other body movement other than your back arm....

I'm not sure what you mean. What I described is the method I use for EVERY shot, match or practice, except for the part about closing my eyes before the final stroke. I was posting to point out that a lot of people preach that "if your alignment is right, it shouldn't matter where you're looking", but in my case, it does matter. Closing my eyes keeps me from steering my stroke off line, because I'm removing the target to steer toward. You can't steer toward something you can't see, you can only trust your set-up and stroke straight.

-Andrew

 

[BRKNRUN]

I'm not sure what you mean. What I described is the method I use for EVERY shot, match or practice, except for the part about closing my eyes before the final stroke. I was posting to point out that a lot of people preach that "if your alignment is right, it shouldn't matter where you're looking", but in my case, it does matter. Closing my eyes keeps me from steering my stroke off line, because I'm removing the target to steer toward. You can't steer toward something you can't see, you can only trust your set-up and stroke straight.

-Andrew

All I meant is that I would not suggest closing your eyes when playing in a match...

I know exactly what you mean when you say that you "steer" the ball sometimes....I refer to it as "helping" the OB....It almost translates into a term used in golf called "the yips"

Here is something else that you may try that allows you to keep your eyes open (during a match)... When you line up your shot...(standing behind it) you imagine a striaght "target line" that runs from your back foot, through the CB throught the contact point on the OB to a point on the rail.

The reality of this game is that all we are "really" doing is shooting a CB on this "straight" line.....everything else is a "secondary" effect (spin,CIT,SIT, etc)

Here is a diagram of the "imaginary line"

START(
%AP1H9%Pg9V9%WH2D0%Xq9\8

)END


"every shot is a straight shot"

 

[Colin Colenso]

So I sometimes have trouble (and I doubt I'm the only one) with "steering my stroke". What happens is I align carefully, and I trust my alignment, but sometimes I'm so concentrated on hitting my precise contact point that I'm still trying to fine-tune my aim even during my final stroke. In other words, instead of delivering a straight stroke, my arm muscles are still sort of second-guessing and making little adjustments to my aim, which I describe as "steering".

So not surprisingly, this usually makes me miss. So I've tried a new technique to try and prevent myself from getting in the way of my alignment and stroke mechanics, which I believe are very sound, at least for a C player. I've found it helps me on shots that require a very precise CB hit, such as long straight shots, or when I'm shooting off the rail.

The new technique? Closing my eyes. I align an practice stroke with my eyes open, looking back and forth between the cue ball to verify my tip placement and object ball to verify my aim. Once I'm satisfied (4-5 practice strokes when I'm in rhythm) that I'm aligned, I pause with my tip at the CB, shut my eyes, draw back and fire. Then I open my eyes to watch the ball fall in the pocket.

I used this during my league match last night and had a lot of success. I only shut my eyes for those demanding long or off-the-rail shots, but I didn't miss a shot with my eyes closed all match. I wasn't counting, but I think that's about 8-for-8 on shots which are lower-percentage for me usually.

Has anyone else found that closing their eyes can actually increase their accuracy sometimes?

-Andrew

Andrew,
I also experience this, and is often the cause of missing a shot that I have aligned for well. It's a kind of hangover from playing a lot without paying close attention to your alignment, and intuitively swiping to make the shot.

A few things can be done to remedy this:
1. Be consciously decisive that you have aligned as required and are committed to the stroke required.

2. Once aligned and set, focus mentally and visually on the cueing action rather than the object ball. (Closing the eyes is going a bit far I think, but will achieve the purpose of focusing the mind just on the stroke.)

3. One tip is to visualize the exact direction of the stoke to which you have aligned. Can be a point on the rail or the wall, and focus on this during the stroke.

It is a big step to focus in on alignment and make all the stroke decisions pre-stroke rather than make compensations during the stroke, but this methodolgy makes sense to me, and I believe if the focus is right and the hard preparation is done then it is a method that can accommodate potting and cue ball control at least sufficient, if not exceptional at the highest levels of play.

To me, what seperates the top players from the many A grade players is exceptional concentration over time, and a methodolgical approach to game strategy and shot selection. Their potting should be excellent, but needen't be exceptional. But what sets them apart is a reduction of errors.

Commiting to alignment in the pre-stroke phase, can be a way to reduce potting errors if one works at hard enough and with a focussed commitment.

 

[lewdo26]

I got HUGE alignment problems myself. Actually, it's inconsistency in the distance my body sets up in relation to the cueball --- which can also cause steering, even if the "line" is perfect.

But I digress. What I wanted to say, Andrew, is that I've recently started experimenting with letting my cue go on the final stroke (gripping the cue almost none at all), and it's helped me a TON with the compensating problem.

See if it works for you, and send me a line.

 

[unknownpro]

Andrew,
I also experience this, and is often the cause of missing a shot that I have aligned for well. It's a kind of hangover from playing a lot without paying close attention to your alignment, and intuitively swiping to make the shot.

A few things can be done to remedy this:
1. Be consciously decisive that you have aligned as required and are committed to the stroke required.

2. Once aligned and set, focus mentally and visually on the cueing action rather than the object ball. (Closing the eyes is going a bit far I think, but will achieve the purpose of focusing the mind just on the stroke.)

3. One tip is to visualize the exact direction of the stoke to which you have aligned. Can be a point on the rail or the wall, and focus on this during the stroke.

It is a big step to focus in on alignment and make all the stroke decisions pre-stroke rather than make compensations during the stroke, but this methodolgy makes sense to me, and I believe if the focus is right and the hard preparation is done then it is a method that can accommodate potting and cue ball control at least sufficient, if not exceptional at the highest levels of play.

To me, what seperates the top players from the many A grade players is exceptional concentration over time, and a methodolgical approach to game strategy and shot selection. Their potting should be excellent, but needen't be exceptional. But what sets them apart is a reduction of errors.

Commiting to alignment in the pre-stroke phase, can be a way to reduce potting errors if one works at hard enough and with a focussed commitment.

Colin's advice here is dead on imo. The third point is major. Blocking out the tendency to look at a ball during the shot is key and probably why you don't steer the shots with your eyes closed. Try not looking at the object ball during your stroke but just the point where your tip is going, like Colin said.

Or just close them on all the shots... it seems to be working for you. We've probably all practiced this way but I've never had the nerve to do it in competition. If it works I'd be showboating and if I miss I look like an idiot, so it's loose-loose for me, LOL! Maybe I'll get some mirrored sunglasses...

unknownpro

 

[Andrew Manning]

Colin's advice here is dead on imo. The third point is major. Blocking out the tendency to look at a ball during the shot is key and probably why you don't steer the shots with your eyes closed. Try not looking at the object ball during your stroke but just the point where your tip is going, like Colin said.

Or just close them on all the shots... it seems to be working for you. We've probably all practiced this way but I've never had the nerve to do it in competition. If it works I'd be showboating and if I miss I look like an idiot, so it's loose-loose for me, LOL! Maybe I'll get some mirrored sunglasses...

unknownpro

What's interesting is that nobody seemed to notice (or if they did, they were too disgusted by my showboating to speak )

I guess on the final stroke, nobody's watching the player's eyes, they're watching the balls to see the outcome of the shot. I would have expected my teammates to give me a hard time about it if they had seen that I was playing with my eyes closed in a playoff match.

-Andrew

 

[lewdo26]

I have a question for unknownpro, Colin, and everybody. (Not to highjack your thread, Andrew. I think this is related to what you're asking)

I get this a lot. Even if I stick to the shotline, my perception of the shot changes during the transition and many, many times it looks "wrong" when I'm down on the shot.

The usual advice is, get up and do it all over again. Ok. But what if the shot still looks wrong from a downward perspective? I have parallex problems and this happens all the time.

Sometimes I compensate subconsciously, sometimes I stick to the line with such effort that the quality of my stroke suffers. That tends to happen even if I pick a line and a target, rather than sighting the entire object ball. Any suggestion? I think this may be at the root of my, and Andrew's compensating problem.

Thanks.

 

[Cardinal2B]

It is a big step to focus in on alignment and make all the stroke decisions pre-stroke rather than make compensations during the stroke...
Commiting to alignment in the pre-stroke phase, can be a way to reduce potting errors if one works at hard enough and with a focussed commitment.

tap-tap-tap

For me, the tendency to "steer" (good term, I'm putting it right into the lexicon) arises because the view of all the angles changes as you lower into shooting position, so, in a sense, your eyes are telling you that what your eyes previously told you was correct is not correct now that you are bent over the shot... an illusion.

Closing your eyes is one way to disregard the illusory message. Longer term, I like Colin's notion of committing to the alignment pre-stroke.

 

[Colin Colenso]

I have a question for unknownpro, Colin, and everybody. (Not to highjack your thread, Andrew. I think this is related to what you're asking)

I get this a lot. Even if I stick to the shotline, my perception of the shot changes during the transition and many, many times it looks "wrong" when I'm down on the shot.

The usual advice is, get up and do it all over again. Ok. But what if the shot still looks wrong from a downward perspective? I have parallex problems and this happens all the time.

Sometimes I compensate subconsciously, sometimes I stick to the line with such effort that the quality of my stroke suffers. That tends to happen even if I pick a line and a target, rather than sighting the entire object ball. Any suggestion? I think this may be at the root of my, and Andrew's compensating problem.

Thanks.

That's a good question Lewdo,
I also have dealt with sighting problems where it just doesn't look right, when it is. This is common when I'm not playing much or not highly focussed.

I think to play very well, you need to be able to get to a stage where in the final alignment position it does feel like the shot is aligned as required. It's in this final alignment and stroke adjustment phase where fine tuning for the accuracy of the shot takes place.

To get to that point, you may need to practice a lot, keeping very still and observant during the stroke and watching the CB's and OB's travel direction. Let all the data sink into your memory. You may need to experiment with eye positioning over the cue, head angle and height over the cue, to find a position where you see close to the actual cue line. For me, parallax errors creep in more as chin gets towards the cue and if my left eye is not over the shaft. Also, I need to warm up my eyes quite often so they see the line. So I'll start warming up with longish straightish shots.

But the quickfix, when you just aren't seeing the line. You may have to trust the line you saw from above and stood into the shot with. One method is to slide the bridge hand toward the shot and you settle the bridge. Now when there, if everything doesn't look right, you could try raising your head to see the angle clearer or just going down on the shot again more carefully.

If none of this helps, you'll just have to trust the line best you can and hit straight. Observe the result...and memorize and learn to adjust accordingly. Worst thing you can do is second guess when you're not sure by swiping or moving the body, as then you won't learn about your alignment.

Some people seem to be lucky to see their alignment pretty clearly. Others have to work harder on it. Get to know their parallax error tendencies for various shots.

Focus and stillness during the shot are very important. You can also try feathering more and trying to perceive the lines.

One exercise I did which seemed to help was placing a laser pointer on my cue and feathering 1 minute at a time watching the laser dot and trying to keep in close to a vertical line on a peice of paper on the wall 10 feet away. That not only straighted my cueing, but it strengthened my eyes.

Hope some of those ideas help a bit.
Colin

 

[lewdo26]

That's a good question Lewdo,
I also have dealt with sighting problems where it just doesn't look right, when it is. This is common when I'm not playing much or not highly focussed.

I think to play very well, you need to be able to get to a stage where in the final alignment position it does feel like the shot is aligned as required. It's in this final alignment and stroke adjustment phase where fine tuning for the accuracy of the shot takes place.


Colin

Thanks a lot, Colin. It's funny you should mention your chin over the cue rather than your left eye. I guess you're right-handed/left-eye dominant like me.

I made the change toward placing my chin over the cue not too long ago, because I became an alignment junky. I previously stood very erect and wasn't very consistent at all.

That change has created the need for a whole different memory bank. And I'm hoping at some point the shots will appear correct once more.

Sometimes I wonder whether to stick with the quasi-snooker stance, but I've taken some lessons where I was told the brain makes the necessary adjustments over time. So long as your picture remains constant on every shot.

I'm also diagramming all the shots that cause me trouble. Particularly those shots that appear different on opposite sides of the table.

Like you said, I'm just hoping to overcome parallex by developing consistency in alignment, and knowledge of angles that give me problems.

 

[unknownpro]

I have a question for unknownpro, Colin, and everybody. (Not to highjack your thread, Andrew. I think this is related to what you're asking)

I get this a lot. Even if I stick to the shotline, my perception of the shot changes during the transition and many, many times it looks "wrong" when I'm down on the shot.

The usual advice is, get up and do it all over again. Ok. But what if the shot still looks wrong from a downward perspective? I have parallex problems and this happens all the time.

Sometimes I compensate subconsciously, sometimes I stick to the line with such effort that the quality of my stroke suffers. That tends to happen even if I pick a line and a target, rather than sighting the entire object ball. Any suggestion? I think this may be at the root of my, and Andrew's compensating problem.

Thanks.

I use both eyes centered over my cue. While standing up looking at the shot you can hold the cue in front of your face and stare through the stick so that you see two images of the shaft and tip. If one is shorter than the other my head is twisted some way. Then I can keep checking that as I get down on the shot. If you use one eye over the cue that's probably not much help, but that's all I can think of.

unknownpro

 

[Bob Jewett]

... Has anyone else found that closing their eyes can actually increase their accuracy sometimes?

-Andrew

I think it's a good practice technique, but I like a slightly different way. See the article called "No Fair Peeking" at
http://www.onthebreaknews.com/Jewett4.htm#Jan06
Also suggested there is watching neither the cue ball nor object ball on the final stroke -- watch your ferrule.

 

[quitecoolguy]

SHooting pool is really funny to me sence i have a problem with my eyes..i dont know if it is a blessing or a curse... many or almost all of you sight the ball with both your eyes...or you at least can see the object ball with both of your eyes when you take the shot aiming with one particular eye..i was born with no muscle in my eyes...actually the muscle formed into a grissle so i can only move my eyes a little up or down..no left or right..my eyes we "set" in place in the third grade with surgery..but over time one of my left eye kinda leaned over to the left so when i look at a shot i sight out of my right eye..my left eye and right eye work independent of each other..so my left eye see s other ball on the table while my right eye is focused on the contact point..Weird i know ..but i am able to be pretty accurate with sighting the ball..it has been an issue with my stroke...i know i have the contact point picked out but when my stroke comes thru i hit the cue ball a little off and i miss..the way i worked on fixing this was i did three things..one..I bought Joe Tucker Third Eye stroker..and praticed with it every day for about a month..just stroking making sure the prongs didnt touch the ball..next i worked on my follow thru on the shot making sure my motion was fluid..then i redid steps 1 and 2 over and over untill i felt natural..

 

[lewdo26]

Thank you unknownpro and whitewolf.

I do center the cue under my chin, nose (and sometimes become aware of my ears) before going down to make sure I'm centered, but never thought about gauging the two images. I'll try that.

It's a relief to know Charlie has the same problem, and, obviously, dealt with it successfully. (I think Archer might have that problem too, just based on what I seen him do repeatedly before a shot)

Good stuff on this thread. Sighting goes sort of undiscussed because it's somewhat subjective. It might be one of the most basic and underrated skills in the game, I don't know.