Have at me! :)

TheThaiger said:
:grin:

Is it me you're attacking for being too aggressive in telling the OP he lacks aggression?

:confused:
Click to expand...

Let's stop with the word games, Tim. Yes, I am talking about you, and I specifically used verbiage (your verbiage, in fact) to make it plain. However, I didn't want to spend any amount of time on it, because it's just not plain worth it -- "you" are not the purpose of my post to justadub.

Instead of intentionally riling up the forums just so you can feel content that "everything is about you," why not try to truly contribute once in a while?

-Sean
 
bender_lu said:
hello,

first of all, rep for you for posting a video of you playing.

im not a coach/instructor/pro or whatever but i know what helped me;

- a solid pre shot routine; i go behind the ob, look for possibilities for position, chalk etc. you might watch lee s promo video of his dvd on youtube it gives so much (too much maybe) information how to behave around the table. so have looks at the table, look for opportunities, chalk before every shot etc. get COMFORTABLE

- stance, grip etc; i to had at first a too high stance, but luckily some guys of our club helped me out fast. i dont know how tall you are but i get comfortably the chin on the cue, and im 1,93. even wearing glasses i could get down on the cue on a 6 foot black ball table for some fun.
i inspired most of my stance by snookerplayers, means my rear leg is streched, my front leg does the hole bending over. this gets my head and my body partially over the cue. i try to cue about 1 to 2 inches under my chin (total snookerstance is imho not needed on a pooltable).
i havent looked too precisely at the grip but there are a lot of good videos online. :)

-tactics etc; well my weak point for example is speed control, especially in 9 ball :grin: but i saw on your video your first position attempt for the 6 ball and thought "why?" :wink: you seem to play mostly with running english, try some basic drills and use draw, stun, follow etc and look how the balls run,you wont need much side because you can get the CB nearly always center table with using a "standard" english.

- for your glasses; if you dont want to purchase new glasses for pool (i wear lenses) and your not comfortable with your current ones on a low stance, you may find in some shops extenders for the.... (how do you call this in english??? :grin: ) you know where the glasses sit on your nose. but i had no problem with my regular glasses.

and even if most of the people here wont like it; thaiger, some green rep for you for your direct and imho good advice. :smile: basics, fundamentals should be developped in the first weeks, either by a coach or by a better player

edit: and they should level the table, it seems that it has a terrible roll off to the left side
Click to expand...

You're wrong when you say that every player can feel comfortable with their chin on the cue.

I don't know what "standard" english is. Is that a new term?

Do you get lessons and coaching immediately in everything you do? I can think of a long list of activities that I've participated in without getting immediate coaching on fundamentals. There are a few activities that I probably wouldn't try without lessons, like maybe skydiving, but can you imagine all the great fun we'd be missing if we had to take immediate lessons for everything we tried? One thing that comes to my mind is all the softball games at our annual family picnics. What fun they were!

Your comments on your stance are extremely vague and can result in much confusion by anyone who reads them.
 
bender_lu said:
hello,

first of all, rep for you for posting a video of you playing.

im not a coach/instructor/pro or whatever but i know what helped me;

- a solid pre shot routine; i go behind the ob, look for possibilities for position, chalk etc. you might watch lee s promo video of his dvd on youtube it gives so much (too much maybe) information how to behave around the table. so have looks at the table, look for opportunities, chalk before every shot etc. get COMFORTABLE

- stance, grip etc; i to had at first a too high stance, but luckily some guys of our club helped me out fast. i dont know how tall you are but i can get comfortably the chin on the cue, and im 1,93. even wearing glasses i could get down on the cue on a 6 foot black ball table for some fun.
i inspired most of my stance by snookerplayers, means my rear leg is streched, my front leg does the hole bending over. this gets my head and my body partially over the cue. i try to cue about 1 to 2 inches under my chin (total snookerstance is imho not needed on a pooltable).
i havent looked too precisely at the grip but there are a lot of good videos online. :)

-tactics etc; well my weak point for example is speed control, especially in 9 ball :grin: but i saw on your video your first position attempt for the 6 ball and thought "why?" :wink: you seem to play mostly with running english, try some basic drills and use draw, stun, follow etc and look how the balls run,you wont need much side because you can get the CB nearly always center table with using a "standard" english.

- for your glasses; if you dont want to purchase new glasses for pool (i wear lenses) and your not comfortable with your current ones on a low stance, you may find in some shops extenders for the.... (how do you call this in english??? :grin: ) you know where the glasses sit on your nose. but i had no problem with my regular glasses.

and even if most of the people here wont like it; thaiger, some green rep for you for your direct and imho good advice. :smile: basics, fundamentals should be developped in the first weeks, either by a coach or by a better player

edit: and they should level the table, it seems that it has a terrible roll off to the left side
Click to expand...

First off let me say with all due respect that I do realize that you are trying to help and I find that admirable in and of itself; I would suggest that you examine your approach. There are lots of people that know how to play pool but those who know how to teach are few and far between. The reason is that most of the people that know how to play pool well will tell the person trying to learn “what works for them”. Ask yourself “am I doing that?” I will let you answer that for yourself.
 
hello again.

i know that everyone has his approach and that im no poolteacher.

as many people know we have clubs for everything on the old continent, even card games ;)

i was lucky to have had some senior champs in this club who immediately started to explain me the fundamentals.

the problem, however, is that the thread starter looks for help via a forum... which is hard because at least i couldnt clearly see all the important factors in the video...

so the best he can do ask an experienced player.

btw: "Standard" only draw, follow, stop etc... so only hit the CB in the vertical middle line.

stance etc; 90% snooker, just chin 1 to 2 inches from the cue and the left foot (as a righthander) slightly more forward. can be found on dozens youtube videos, including the charming russian lady posted on the last page :grin:
 
TheThaiger said:
Oh, they all love it, secretly...
Click to expand...

Funny thing is that every once in a while you let your guard down, and actually contribute to a particular thread. As opposed to your finely crafted online persona most of the time, designed to rile things up some.

Its interesting.

It happened a little in tbis thread, if you compare the latter comments to the earlier ones. I also notice it upon occasion in the main forum.

I chuckle when it happens.
 
As with everything I say I mean it with all due respect and am trying to help the OP and with this I might even help you some.

bender_lu said:
hello again.

i know that everyone has his approach and that im no poolteacher.
Click to expand...

I am glad you state that

bender_lu said:
the problem, however, is that the thread starter looks for help via a forum... which is hard because at least i couldnt clearly see all the important factors in the video...
Click to expand...

well no one can see all but the instructors have experience with analyzing video

bender_lu said:
so the best he can do ask an experienced player.
Click to expand...

I have to disagree, if that were true this section of the forum would have been merged with the “ask the pro’s” and the “main” forum years ago. This is the “ask the instructor” section. Not that you shouldn’t contribute and give your opinions, suggestions and comments in fact I think you should; I am just giving you my opinion on what might help you to give better advice and instruction and that’s all.

bender_lu said:
btw: "Standard" only draw, follow, stop etc... so only hit the CB in the vertical middle line.
Click to expand...

That’s what Fran is referring to; you see you had to explain what you mean, now if you had just said “vertical axis” instead of “standard English” you wouldn’t have to explain. This is what instructors know that good pool players don’t, they know how to explain it so as not to confuse people the 1st time around.


bender_lu said:
stance etc; 90% snooker, just chin 1 to 2 inches from the cue and the left foot (as a righthander) slightly more forward. can be found on dozens youtube videos, including the charming russian lady posted on the last page :grin:
Click to expand...

Yes but that does not mean it is the only way to shoot pool, this is another thing that instructors know that good pool players don’t; and that is that “this” way may not work for some, and it ultimately may not work for him we do not yet know, we (as instructors) are keenly aware of this more so than the body of good players.
 
edit: and they should level the table, it seems that it has a terrible roll off to the left side

You have no idea.....these tables (all five of them) roll off significantly. It gets worse with the summer season, too. It's quite an adventure. :p
 
PGHteacher said:
As with everything I say I mean it with all due respect and am trying to help the OP and with this I might even help you some.



I am glad you state that



well no one can see all but the instructors have experience with analyzing video



I have to disagree, if that were true this section of the forum would have been merged with the “ask the pro’s” and the “main” forum years ago. This is the “ask the instructor” section. Not that you shouldn’t contribute and give your opinions, suggestions and comments in fact I think you should; I am just giving you my opinion on what might help you to give better advice and instruction and that’s all.



That’s what Fran is referring to; you see you had to explain what you mean, now if you had just said “vertical axis” instead of “standard English” you wouldn’t have to explain. This is what instructors know that good pool players don’t, they know how to explain it so as not to confuse people the 1st time around.




Yes but that does not mean it is the only way to shoot pool, this is another thing that instructors know that good pool players don’t; and that is that “this” way may not work for some, and it ultimately may not work for him we do not yet know, we (as instructors) are keenly aware of this more so than the body of good players.
Click to expand...


John, there's even more wrong than what you picked out. As we all know, in pool we consider English to be side spin. In snooker it's called 'side.' 'Standard English' doesn't fit anywhere. He also makes no mention of where he plants his feet and more, which makes his suggestions on stance vague and incomplete, even when he had an opportunity to clarify it.

I think the saying goes..."The road to Hell is paved with good intentions."
 
FranCrimi said:
Not me. I think you're a bully with no class.
Click to expand...

Fran, just be glad you don't have to deal with Thaiger in NPR....he's pretty tame her in the instruction thread compared to NPR.... and just like NPR, unfortunately, he has no idea of what he speaks :)
 
Bruce...Today is the first time I could view your video. I have terribly slow internet speed, and it would not play smooth. So...on to the evaluation...

First and foremost, I have to strenuously disagree with Sean's (and others) assessment that your stance is too high. It is absolutely not. Not everyone "see's" the shot line better from a low stance (chin or or near cue). I have an upright stance similar to yours, and there's nothing wrong with it. I don't agree with Sean's 'parallax view' description, and it is borne out by many older players, some of which stood near upright, and played championship pool. Love ya Sean, but this one doesn't matter.

Now...talking about your process...quite simply it sucks. You really have no consistent way of setting up and delivering the cue. You elbow drop on every shot that you don't poke or jab...and the poke/jabs are terrible. Your cue finishes up in the air on a LOT of shots. Small wonder that you play inconsistently. I do see the 'tentative' stroke that others are speaking to...and it is more a matter of you having no finish in your stroke. That's directly related to having no start and finish process.

I'm making my personal goal to get up to Maine to work with you. Don't worry about the $$$...we'll figure that out later, and make it work for both of us. That said, I'm convinced that one lesson can straighten out most of the problems that I see in the video, that have obviously plagued you for years.

Maine is in my future! Keep up the good work, and I'll get up there as soon as possible.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
Scott Lee said:
First and foremost, I have to strenuously disagree with Sean's (and others) assessment that your stance is too high. It is absolutely not. Not everyone "see's" the shot line better from a low stance (chin or or near cue). I have an upright stance similar to yours, and there's nothing wrong with it. I don't agree with Sean's 'parallax view' description, and it is borne out by many older players, some of which stood near upright, and played championship pool. Love ya Sean, but this one doesn't matter.
Click to expand...

Unbelievable.
 
ChicagoRJ said:
Fran, just be glad you don't have to deal with Thaiger in NPR....he's pretty tame her in the instruction thread compared to NPR.... and just like NPR, unfortunately, he has no idea of what he speaks :)
Click to expand...

Ah, NPR, a place for gun-toting inbred hicks. Oh, and you, Chico. :wink:
 
Scott Lee said:
Bruce...Today is the first time I could view your video. I have terribly slow internet speed, and it would not play smooth. So...on to the evaluation...

First and foremost, I have to strenuously disagree with Sean's (and others) assessment that your stance is too high. It is absolutely not. Not everyone "see's" the shot line better from a low stance (chin or or near cue). I have an upright stance similar to yours, and there's nothing wrong with it. I don't agree with Sean's 'parallax view' description, and it is borne out by many older players, some of which stood near upright, and played championship pool. Love ya Sean, but this one doesn't matter.

Now...talking about your process...quite simply it sucks. You really have no consistent way of setting up and delivering the cue. You elbow drop on every shot that you don't poke or jab...and the poke/jabs are terrible. Your cue finishes up in the air on a LOT of shots. Small wonder that you play inconsistently. I do see the 'tentative' stroke that others are speaking to...and it is more a matter of you having no finish in your stroke. That's directly related to having no start and finish process.

I'm making my personal goal to get up to Maine to work with you. Don't worry about the $$$...we'll figure that out later, and make it work for both of us. That said, I'm convinced that one lesson can straighten out most of the problems that I see in the video, that have obviously plagued you for years.

Maine is in my future! Keep up the good work, and I'll get up there as soon as possible.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

Scott, thank you for taking the time. And for the extremely generous offer. Please understand, you and everyone else here, that I'm not fishing for charity. I understand the value of what an instructor does, and why they get paid what they do. In this, or any field of endeavor. The only reason my lack of willingness to see any instructor gets brought up is merely in reply to the standard response of any question here in this sub forum "....see an instructor." :) Again, I will, someday. When I get my collective "stuff" together.

What has happened, beyond all that, is what I was really interested in. Helpful advice, pointed suggestions, examples and links. This thread has really delivered, for me. Short of actually getting real time with an instructor, this is what was needed.

Now the rest is up to me. I have to put the time in, and correct things. Lots of things. And they aren't all gonna get changed, all at once. For example, I think that in the week since we started this discussion, that I have made good progress in my approach. I expect that it's not necessarily what you folks might want, but I know that it is MUCH better than it was in that video. That is progress, and it will help.

On the other hand, I'm not making as much progress with the stroke as I'd like. (Then again, maybe I am, and it's just a step towards really correcting things and I don't realize it.) Still, I find that some shots I have "it" a little better, then shortly thereafter...poof, it's gone. No consistency. Of course, that's the rub. I'll hit one and say "there, good". Then the next one will be poke. Sheesh. :p

Creating good, consistent habits will take time. I fully realize this. While I am impatient in the general sense that I want to be better, I do not think for a second this is gonna happen overnight. This thread has done wonders for me, motivating me, and helping me. I thank everyone yet again for that.
 
Last edited:
Scott Lee said:
Bruce...Today is the first time I could view your video. I have terribly slow internet speed, and it would not play smooth. So...on to the evaluation...
Click to expand...

I noticed the herky-jerky play, pixelation, and "ghosting" as well -- and I have a fast Internet connection.

Scott Lee said:
First and foremost, I have to strenuously disagree with Sean's (and others) assessment that your stance is too high. It is absolutely not. Not everyone "see's" the shot line better from a low stance (chin or or near cue). I have an upright stance similar to yours, and there's nothing wrong with it. I don't agree with Sean's 'parallax view' description, and it is borne out by many older players, some of which stood near upright, and played championship pool. Love ya Sean, but this one doesn't matter.
Click to expand...

That's ok, Scott, I'll still buy ya a pizza and brewski the next time I see ya, as always.

I do have to ask you (or rather, pose to the readership), one question though:

  • Name one active pro, or active semi-pro, still playing successfully on the circuit today, that plays with an upright stance as you say. Just one. (I'm not referring to players of yesteryear -- I specifically mean players of today that play at a very high level, enough to consistently win/place/show at professional or regional tours.)
I'll leave the question at that.

Scott Lee said:
Now...talking about your process...quite simply it sucks. You really have no consistent way of setting up and delivering the cue. You elbow drop on every shot that you don't poke or jab...and the poke/jabs are terrible. Your cue finishes up in the air on a LOT of shots. Small wonder that you play inconsistently. I do see the 'tentative' stroke that others are speaking to...and it is more a matter of you having no finish in your stroke. That's directly related to having no start and finish process.
Click to expand...

As raw as the above sounds, I have to agree. While most of us have been suggesting point-purpose fixes / things to try to address certain aspects, the real truth is the lack of a set, consistent process as Scott notes.

Scott Lee said:
I'm making my personal goal to get up to Maine to work with you. Don't worry about the $$$...we'll figure that out later, and make it work for both of us. That said, I'm convinced that one lesson can straighten out most of the problems that I see in the video, that have obviously plagued you for years.

Maine is in my future! Keep up the good work, and I'll get up there as soon as possible.
Click to expand...

Very generous of you, Scott!

Scott Lee said:
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

Scott, you do know that you don't have to do the "dubya dubya dubya" business in URLs anymore, right? That "www.<some_domain>" notation is considered archaeic these days -- there's no need for it.

For instance, your site is reachable thusly:

poolknowledge.com (http://poolknowledge.com/ is the underlying URL)

Some sites (like yours) will redirect to "dubya dubya dubya" but that's only because of lack of knowledge on the part of your website's DNS administrator.

Just thought you might want to know, from someone who does this for a living. ;)

-Sean
 
TheThaiger said:
Another goes..."pride comes before a fall."

Bender_Lu's Belgian, I think, and English isn't his first language.
Click to expand...

Wow, it's a good thing you wrote that because none of us would have had any idea. Such a shocker.

Case in point:

"....i get comfortably the chin on the cue, and im 1,93....."
 
justadub said:
Scott, thank you for taking the time. And for the extremely generous offer. Please understand, you and everyone else here, that I'm not fishing for charity. I understand the value of what an instructor does, and why they get paid what they do. In this, or any field of endeavor. The only reason my lack of willingness to see any instructor gets brought up is merely in reply to the standard response of any question here in this sub forum "....see an instructor." :) Again, I will, someday. When I get my collective "stuff" together.

What has happened, beyond all that, is what I was really interested in. Helpful advice, pointed suggestions, examples and links. This thread has really delivered, for me. Short of actually getting real time with an instructor, this is what was needed.

Now the rest is up to me. I have to put the time in, and correct things. Lots of things. And they aren't all gonna get changed, all at once. For example, I think that in the week since we started this discussion, that I have made good progress in my approach. I expect that it's not necessarily what you folks might want, but I know that it is MUCH better than it was in that video. That is progress, and it will help.

On the other hand, I'm not making as much progress with the stroke as I'd like. (Then again, maybe I am, and it's just a step towards really correcting things and I don't realize it.) Still, I find that some shots I have "it" a little better, then shortly thereafter...poof, it's gone. No consistency. Of course, that's the rub. I'll hit one and say "there, good". Then the next one will be poke. Sheesh. :p

Creating good, consistent habits will take time. I fully realize this. While I am impatient in the general sense that I want to be better, I do not think for a second this is gonna happen overnight. This thread has done wonders for me, motivating me, and helping me. I thank everyone yet again for that.
Click to expand...

If you had written that your stroke was coming along fantastically, I'd wonder if you were exaggerating some. The fact that you're reporting how difficult it is says that you are really working on it. It's going to take time, and it's supposed to happen just the way you're describing, where one shot feels great and then the very next feels awful.

As long as you keep at it, there will be more and more great feeling ones and less awful ones.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top