Have the LD technology improve the pro players level?

[Ratta]

Well,

the story about "the Arrow and the Indian" is old-and still true

No matter what shaft you re using-you ll have always to *adjust*. Some shafts maybe make it easier to get some results (cb-action), but a *pro* would laugh about the minor difference-here it s all about the stroke. The beginning journey in pool maybe a bit easier if it s about adjustment etc.- but i m very sure, that it is totally overrated.
Many of the professionals are using now *shaft from brand X* just because of the money. Some had been worldchampions a few years ago with regular shafts on custom cues and now re playing with a *much cheaper* LD-shaft/cue. Just shows that it s still (thanks god) about the Indian and personal preference.

But it s easier for sure to decide to play with a *LD-Shaft* if you the sponsor gives you the chance to *live better*

 

[Masayoshi]

that makes a total of 4.. top 50 in 2011 that use predator cues.. and all 4 would be on the list with or without predator

not the landslide "taking over" that ya thought huh?

it's just a gimmick.. a highly marketed corporate gimmick.. but gimmick none the less

You do realize that there are many different makers of low deflection shafts other than predator, right? Also, your list is incomplete. Here is the top 10 of your money list.

Shane Van Boening Cuetech LD shaft
$160,450
Ralf Souquet Predator
$150,044
Darren Appleton Predator
$144,180
Dennis Orcollo Predator
$117,588
Thorsten Hohmann Lucasi LD shaft
$97,100
Alex Pagulayan Predator
$89,360
Pin-Yi Ko Not sure
$87,500
Chris Melling Predator
$84,141
Huidji See Predator
$80,377
Si Meng Chen Not sure, but you get the idea
$76,479

LD shafts definitely help. It is possible to become a top player with a normal shaft, but it just takes a slight bit more concentration to make balls with it, and that slight advantage matters a great deal at that level.

Personally, I use a standard shaft because I really respect the cue maker who made it for me and I don't want to go through the adjustment process when getting used to a new shaft.

 

[8pack]

that makes a total of 4.. top 50 in 2011 that use predator cues.. and all 4 would be on the list with or without predator

not the landslide "taking over" that ya thought huh?

it's just a gimmick.. a highly marketed corporate gimmick.. but gimmick none the less

Gimmick is so far from the truth.lol What are you a snooker player?
The truth is that most people that play with ld shafts will never go back.
Why, once you get used to them there is less guess work.IT MAKES SHOT MAKING A WHOLE LOT EASIER .End of story

 

[dom_poppa]

Just what I have predicted that most people think these high tech production cues are the way to go.

It's 2012 and why not go with something that shoots great and not just look pretty.

Now, I'm not saying custom cues don't hit well...it's coin toss whether a cue you have being built is any good to shoot with.

They can't just throw them away after completion. They have to sell it whether it hits well or not. So when you buy, there's a chance that it may be a dud.

 

[softshot]

Gimmick is so far from the truth.lol What are you a snooker player?
The truth is that most people that play with ld shafts will never go back.
Why, once you get used to them there is less guess work.IT MAKES SHOT MAKING A WHOLE LOT EASIER .End of story

I played with one for over a year.. until the flimsy POS broke.. went back to the shaft that came with my cue.. and my progress never slipped

P.S. players make shots.. not cues

 

[dom_poppa]

I played with one for over a year.. until the flimsy POS broke.. went back to the shaft that came with my cue.. and my progress never slipped

P.S. players make shots.. not cues

...and if it didn't break you would still be playing with it. I mean you were playing with it for over a year.

Now the quality and why it broke that's another issue but from your statement, it looks like it hits very well.

 

[8pack]

I played with one for over a year.. until the flimsy POS broke.. went back to the shaft that came with my cue.. and my progress never slipped

P.S. players make shots.. not cues

Sorry you had problems with yours .I own 5 or 6 of them plus a mezz ld shaft.The best thing that ever happened to my game was sticking with the ld shafts.I probably play 1 to 2 balls better since changing.

P.S. players make shots.. not cues[/QUOTE]This is true.
Ld shafts give you confidence which helps you make the shot's.

 

[RRfireblade]

It makes no difference at the top level. We all know why Pros play what they do.

It certainly hasn't "Compressed" players into the top level either.

What it has done is ease the learning curve for beginners (primarily) and added a slightly larger margin for error for the mid level player.

Nothing more , nothing less.

The unfortunate misconception is that LD shafts all of a sudden just showed up on the scene at a certain point. Shaft of more or less 'deflection' have always existed at some level relative to each other.

However, I'd say the biggest impact has less to do with the shafts themselves and much more to do now with the knowledge associated with LD technology, why and how the CB is effected by off center cueing. These concepts and understanding were a mystery to many mid level players and probably all beginners prior.

 

[TheThaiger]

It makes no difference at the top level. We all know why Pros play what they do.

It certainly hasn't "Compressed" players into the top level either.

What it has done is ease the learning curve for beginners (primarily) and added a slightly larger margin for error for the mid level player.

Nothing more , nothing less.

The unfortunate misconception is that LD shafts all of a sudden just showed up on the scene at a certain point. Shaft of more or less 'deflection' have always existed at some level relative to each other.

However, I'd say the biggest impact has less to do with the shafts themselves and much more to do now with the knowledge associated with LD technology, why and how the CB is effected by off center cueing. These concepts and understanding were a mystery to many mid level players and probably all beginners prior.

It's not just beginners it helps. I doubt you'd have heard of Melling, Appleton & co had there been no LD shafts. Deflection in snooker and English 8 ball is a big fat non issue, and most UK players have never even heard of it. Adjusting is difficult, even for pros of other cue sports, and Predators have helped the British lads hit the ground running, so to speak.

What's always missed in these 'are LD shafts any good?' discussions is performance. Obviously Predators deflect the least, but everyone plays with them here in the UK because they move the ball so effortlessly. I always liken them to Ferrari's - great performance, but temperamental, and break down a lot. I 'factor-in' replacement costs of a new shaft every year or two. It's generally worth the expense.

Obviously there are some people who still cry about it - softshot, for example - but the rest of us accept them for what they are and get on with it.

 

[RRfireblade]

It's not just beginners it helps. I doubt you'd have heard of Melling, Appleton & co had there been no LD shafts. Deflection in snooker and English 8 ball is a big fat non issue, and most UK players have never even heard of it. Adjusting is difficult, even for pros of other cue sports, and Predators have helped the British lads hit the ground running, so to speak.

What's always missed in these 'are LD shafts any good?' discussions is performance. Obviously Predators deflect the least, but everyone plays with them here in the UK because they move the ball so effortlessly. I always liken them to Ferrari's - great performance, but temperamental, and break down a lot. I 'factor-in' replacement costs of a new shaft every year or two. It's generally worth the expense.

Obviously there are some people who still cry about it - softshot, for example - but the rest of us accept them for what they are and get on with it.

Nonsense. Pros will always have been pros, like they've always been. No stick of wood will ever change that and its a complete and total insult to those who have reached that level to suggest it. No stick of wood is going to take anyone to the upper echelon of the game who didnt otherwise have what it takes. Pool "technology" has to be the least impactive of any sport or game that there is. It's virtually technology proof.

It's the same silly arguement that goes on in golf, which has 1000X more technology infused in the game. Yet none of it has put any top level player at the top level. No one is setting unheard of records or doing anything that hasn't been done before. In fact arguably the greatest dominator of the game, probably ever (Tiger) was doing it with the 'oldest' technology in the game at the time.

Anyway....

 

[TheThaiger]

Nonsense. Pros will always have been pros, like they've always been. No stick of wood will ever change that and its a complete and total insult to those who have reached that level to suggest it. No stick of wood is going to take anyone to the upper echelon of the game who didnt otherwise have what it takes. Pool "technology" has to be the least impactive of any sport or game that there is. It's virtually technology proof.

It's the same silly arguement that goes on in golf, which has 1000X more technology infused in the game. Yet none of it has put any top level player at the top level. No one is setting unheard of records or doing anything that hasn't been done before. In fact arguably the greatest dominator of the game, probably ever (Tiger) was doing it with the 'oldest' technology in the game at the time.

Anyway....

What do you mean 'nonsense'? How do you know how quickly Melling, Appleton and all the other players who don't come from an American pool background would adjust to high deflection shafts? Obviously they'd still be great players but they would have a significant disadvantage without LD shafts.

 

[Masayoshi]

Nonsense. Pros will always have been pros, like they've always been. No stick of wood will ever change that and its a complete and total insult to those who have reached that level to suggest it. No stick of wood is going to take anyone to the upper echelon of the game who didnt otherwise have what it takes. Pool "technology" has to be the least impactive of any sport or game that there is. It's virtually technology proof.

It's the same silly arguement that goes on in golf, which has 1000X more technology infused in the game. Yet none of it has put any top level player at the top level. No one is setting unheard of records or doing anything that hasn't been done before. In fact arguably the greatest dominator of the game, probably ever (Tiger) was doing it with the 'oldest' technology in the game at the time.

Anyway....

There is no doubt that they would be pros with or without LD shafts, but LD shafts allow them to acquire a slight bit more consistency and accuracy than regular shafts allow, which matters a great deal when one miss can cost you the set.

 

[Txstang1]

Gimmick is so far from the truth.lol What are you a snooker player?
The truth is that most people that play with ld shafts will never go back.
Why, once you get used to them there is less guess work.IT MAKES SHOT MAKING A WHOLE LOT EASIER .End of story

Sorry dude, you last sentence in all caps is laughable, IMO

Just what I have predicted that most people think these high tech production cues are the way to go.

there seems to be a fairly even split on the opinions.

Nonsense. Pros will always have been pros, like they've always been. No stick of wood will ever change that and its a complete and total insult to those who have reached that level to suggest it. No stick of wood is going to take anyone to the upper echelon of the game who didnt otherwise have what it takes. Pool "technology" has to be the least impactive of any sport or game that there is. It's virtually technology proof.

It's the same silly arguement that goes on in golf, which has 1000X more technology infused in the game. Yet none of it has put any top level player at the top level. No one is setting unheard of records or doing anything that hasn't been done before. In fact arguably the greatest dominator of the game, probably ever (Tiger) was doing it with the 'oldest' technology in the game at the time.

Anyway....

exactly

 

[dr_dave]

What do you think guys? Have all those predators, ob, etc.. shafts really improve the level of the pool game in the last maybe 15 years?

Do the nowadays players play better pool than the 90's players (archer, strickland, hall, etc..) due to these shafts?

Have this technology taken the game of pool to a superior level?

LD shafts have both advantages and disadvantages.

I personally think LD shafts do offer a slight advantage for most players (see my December '07 BD article for more info); but to play at the highest level, one must still be able to adjust for all of the squirt, swerve, and throw effects that vary with shot speed and distance, cut angle, type and amount of English, cue elevation, and ball/cloth conditions. The shaft doesn't do this for you.

Regards,
Dave

 

[uwate]

I dont play with LD shafts but i am going to try to switch this coming year to them. The main reason is there are few players here in South Florida that I play against regularly that play with LD shafts. From 7-8 ft away they can really bring the high inside english follow shot that for me is really hard to come with since i literally have to aim on the other side of the ball due to deflection. I regularly see these players being able to hit extreme english shots with pretty good accuracy that I just know were they shooting with regular shafts they would miss those shots a few times more per hundred attempts.

Even just one less miss is what separates a win from a loss in many of my matches. This past weekend I was at APA singles nationals and both my opponents that beat me missed only one time the entire match, and one of the guys only missed bc the ball skidded or else he would have had no misses.

I would have to argue yes that LD shafts have elevated the game some by lowering the miss % on high deflection shots.

 

[TheNewSharkster]

I played with one for over a year.. until the flimsy POS broke.. went back to the shaft that came with my cue.. and my progress never slipped

P.S. players make shots.. not cues

Haha try making a shot without using a cue at all then. Silly!

 

[Patrick Johnson]

brandoncook:
If you play with the same cue all the time, why does it matter if you have an LD shaft or not?

Because you can estimate a smaller amount of correction more accurately than you can estimate a larger amount of correction.

Here's an example to make the point: Say you're betting you can make two marks on a piece of paper a certain distance apart and be accurate to within 1/16 inch. Which distance would you rather bet on, one inch or six inches?

I would actually argue that there are certain shots that are harder to make with an LD shaft because of the low deflection.

Which shots? Why can't they be duplicated by simply aiming differently?

TheThaiger:
Predators ... move the ball so effortlessly.

Low squirt has real advantages, but more spin with less effort isn't one of them. It's easy to test - I've tested many cues and found no difference.

JimmyWhite:
I have not yet found a mass produced cue that hits as good as a custom cue.

What does "hits good" mean? Is it the same for everybody, or is it personal preference? If it's personal preference, then no cue really "hits better" than any other.

pj
chgo

 

[gmoney1]

............

I dont play with LD shafts but i am going to try to switch this coming year to them. The main reason is there are few players here in South Florida that I play against regularly that play with LD shafts. From 7-8 ft away they can really bring the high inside english follow shot that for me is really hard to come with since i literally have to aim on the other side of the ball due to deflection. I regularly see these players being able to hit extreme english shots with pretty good accuracy that I just know were they shooting with regular shafts they would miss those shots a few times more per hundred attempts.

Even just one less miss is what separates a win from a loss in many of my matches. This past weekend I was at APA singles nationals and both my opponents that beat me missed only one time the entire match, and one of the guys only missed bc the ball skidded or else he would have had no misses.

I would have to argue yes that LD shafts have elevated the game some by lowering the miss % on high deflection shots.

from what i have experienced - u give up more in feel/cue ball control than what u gain in less deflection

 

[TheThaiger]

Low squirt has real advantages, but more spin with less effort isn't one of them. It's easy to test - I've tested many cues and found no difference.

pj
chgo

Really? I've not played regularly with that many custom cues but drawing a ball with a pred is incredibly easy. In my admittedly limited experience I would say drawing a ball is easier with a predator cue, and not just a predator shaft on another maker's butt.

I accept follow is generally better with a solid maple shaft, however. A lot depends on what tables/cloths you are playing on.

 

[TheThaiger]

from what i have experienced - u give up more in feel/cue ball control than what u gain in less deflection

You adapt to those things too, but I don't see pages and pages of threads wailing about it, like you do with deflection.