Having a tip with multiple shapes

E

eldowan

Registered
My question is related to the piece of the article below, which describes using the cue in the same orientation each time you use it. My question if this: What if you were to take a tip, and shape it into four distinct curves, with a flat spot at the center. Correctly marked and used, would this provide an acceptable way to have what essentially boild down to 5 styles of tip curvature at hand on one shaft? I'm not sure I'm explaining this right, but say you've got the center flat, one side a nickle, one a dime, one smaller than a dime, and one larger than a nickle.

Would this provide any use at all?


In a sfbilliards article http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/2002-11.pdf, Bob Jewett writes:
"Finally, here is a suggestion that you might put in the final 0.5 percent. Always shoot with your stick in the same rotation.
That is, always shoot with the same side up. A file and the bad chalk it fixed up (left); shafts marked for rotation (right).
The players who need the most precision — snooker players — do this already. A snooker cue has a flat bevel at the end of
butt, so that it looks a little like a chisel. The back hand holds the end of the butt with the "flat" always held the same way, maybe in
the palm. This means that the stick will have the same rotation on every shot. If there is any slight bend in the stick, it
will always be the same way. If there is any harder or softer spot on the tip, it will always be in the same place, for example
for draw. If the shaft is more flexible with or against the grain, that flexibility will always be the same way. The idea is that
all of these effects will be learned and dealt with subconsciously. Meucci Cues already has a solution for this. Their Red Dot
and Black Dot shafts are marked to allow the player to choose the right rotation. The right-hand photo on this page shows
the way I do it. With a permanent marker, make a sight on the ferrule just back from the tip. Always shoot with the sight up.
After a little practice, it will be a natural part of your game. One advantage is that if I plan to shoot a draw shot, I only need
to check for chalk on the part of the tip I use for draw. "
 
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With that out of the way...

I HIGHLY encourage you to do something different that the generations of professional pool players that have come before you have.

Who knows? You just MIGHT find the holy grail of pool.

(Rolling my eyes really hard about right now.)

Russ
 
eldowan said:
My question is related to the piece of the article below, which describes using the cue in the same orientation each time you use it. My question if this: What if you were to take a tip, and shape it into four distinct curves, with a flat spot at the center. Correctly marked and used, would this provide an acceptable way to have what essentially boild down to 5 styles of tip curvature at hand on one shaft? I'm not sure I'm explaining this right, but say you've got the center flat, one side a nickle, one a dime, one smaller than a dime, and one larger than a nickle.

Would this provide any use at all?


In a sfbilliards article http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/2002-11.pdf, Bob Jewett writes:
"Finally, here is a suggestion that you might put in the final 0.5 percent. Always shoot with your stick in the same rotation.
That is, always shoot with the same side up. A file and the bad chalk it fixed up (left); shafts marked for rotation (right).
The players who need the most precision ? snooker players ? do this already. A snooker cue has a flat bevel at the end of
butt, so that it looks a little like a chisel. The back hand holds the end of the butt with the "flat" always held the same way, maybe in
the palm. This means that the stick will have the same rotation on every shot. If there is any slight bend in the stick, it
will always be the same way. If there is any harder or softer spot on the tip, it will always be in the same place, for example
for draw. If the shaft is more flexible with or against the grain, that flexibility will always be the same way. The idea is that
all of these effects will be learned and dealt with subconsciously. Meucci Cues already has a solution for this. Their Red Dot
and Black Dot shafts are marked to allow the player to choose the right rotation. The right-hand photo on this page shows
the way I do it. With a permanent marker, make a sight on the ferrule just back from the tip. Always shoot with the sight up.
After a little practice, it will be a natural part of your game. One advantage is that if I plan to shoot a draw shot, I only need
to check for chalk on the part of the tip I use for draw. "
Click to expand...


I'm going to answer you, hoping that my first instincts are wrong, and you are actually serious.

No! Well, maybe it would work but I can't see it even being possible. More importantly, if you shaped your tip differently in 4 different areas, then it would kind of make it pointless to quote that article. The article is saying that you use your shaft in the same direction every time correct? well, wouldn't that be a little hard if you wanted to use the dime for some english, but it was on the otherside of the tip? Besides, I can't see any practical use for what you are saying. Ok, I answered as best and as nicely as I could. :D ;)

Edit: for spelling error
 
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Commendation

I would like to commend Russ for being the bravest soul out here and commenting first.

A second commendation is due as well, simply for biting your tongue and not lambasting, my big word of the day, this guy for posting such a question.


Russ Chewning said:
With that out of the way...

I HIGHLY encourage you to do something different that the generations of professional pool players that have come before you have.

Who knows? You just MIGHT find the holy grail of pool.

(Rolling my eyes really hard about right now.)

Russ
Click to expand...
 
I can tell you right now, the only thing that would change is your amount of miscues. The reason round works is because it provides maximum surface area. That is the most important thing about a tip. In fact, that might be its sole purpose - to provide a contact surface for your cue to hit a cueball. If it's smaller in any way, it's bad.
 
I'm not a pool savant, nor have I played as long as many of you here.
However, I do not see the need to make fun of a question, and yes I am serious in the question I asked.

If it doesn't work, then fine, tell me so. I'm an adult, I can take it. You don't have to sugar coat it.

The reason the article was quoted was because holding your cue the same side up would give a consistant area of the tip the contact on certain shots. Then I thought what if you were to orient the tip so that a different shape was on the side for a certain shot. maybe I'm stupid, but I how will I ever know if you guys don't tell me?
 
eldowan said:
My question is related to the piece of the article below, which describes using the cue in the same orientation each time you use it. My question if this: What if you were to take a tip, and shape it into four distinct curves, with a flat spot at the center. Correctly marked and used, would this provide an acceptable way to have what essentially boild down to 5 styles of tip curvature at hand on one shaft? I'm not sure I'm explaining this right, but say you've got the center flat, one side a nickle, one a dime, one smaller than a dime, and one larger than a nickle.

Would this provide any use at all?...
Click to expand...
One advantage of using a random orientation is that the tip assumes a "natural" shape according to one's style of play. It tends to be more curved if you use spin on lots of shots, and flatter if you usually hit with center ball.

One reason offered for always holding it with the same orientation, as opposed to random, is to produce consistent squirt (deflection). But this may be more myth than reality. Dr. Dave Alciatore, a poster here, did squirt tests on a Meucci shaft to see if there really was a significant change in squirt with orientation. His results are shown in this article (see page 3):

http://billiards.colostate.edu/bd_articles/2008/feb08.pdf

Your idea is food for thought, but it's not clear that there would be any really significant advantage to having the different shapes. There really isn't much difference between tips of different shapes...within reason, of course, imo. What small benefit you might conjure up would probably be more than offset by the difficulty of maintaining the tip in this hybrid form. But maybe I'm just being lazy.

As far as the responses you've received, most people cannot abide a new or unorthodox idea unless it comes from the mouth of a well-established expert, in which case they accept it uncritically, more or less. The thirteenth century lives on! :)

Jim
 
eldowan said:
I'm not a pool savant, nor have I played as long as many of you here.
However, I do not see the need to make fun of a question, and yes I am serious in the question I asked.

If it doesn't work, then fine, tell me so. I'm an adult, I can take it. You don't have to sugar coat it.

The reason the article was quoted was because holding your cue the same side up would give a consistant area of the tip the contact on certain shots. Then I thought what if you were to orient the tip so that a different shape was on the side for a certain shot. maybe I'm stupid, but I how will I ever know if you guys don't tell me?
Click to expand...


Ok, I'll be the one to tell you. It doesn't matter. Some people shoot with a dime shape, some with a nickel, and some with whatever. From shot to shot, it wouldn't really matter. I can't think of any shot that I would rather play with a nickel rather than a dime (except the break). There wouldn't be any real use for the ability to switch from tip shape to tip shape. It's a good try though. Keep thinking outside the box and perhaps you'll come up with something that we will all use one day.

Oh, and btw. If and when you come up with something like that...don't be surprised if almost everyone laughs at you at first. It's pretty much par for the course.:D
 
Anybody ever try a penny shaped tip? in between a dime and a nickel. cant go wrong.
 
I am trying to imagine the tip you describe and I'm having trouble forming a visual image. In fact, I am having trouble even picturing a tip that has just TWO shapes - more curve than a dime on one side and less curve than a nickle on the other side. Just try drawing a cross section of such a tip and I think you will see what I mean.
 
I didn't want let the cat out of the bag but . . .

This is my new tip coming out soon , try and keep it on the down low till it hit's the market.

3 table draws guaranteed.
 

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It probably isn't practical to create that many curvatures within a 13mm (on average) diameter space. But I'm constantly amazed at what can be made, so let's say for the sake of argument that it could be done and maintained....

To kind of elaborate on what Jude said, the contact point between the tip and the cue ball is really more of a contact area because the tip compresses and sort of conforms to the cue ball at impact. That's what makes the contact so reliable, and why leather is a better choice for a playing tip than say metal or plastic.

The contact area is big enough that it would almost certainly overlap two or more of the different curvatures on this multiple shaped tip on every shot except the most extreme english shots (which are few and far between). And, that overlap would make the contact a lot less reliable.

There's certainly no shame in asking, but that's the major problem I see with it.

Hope that's helpful.
 
fullsplicefiend said:
Anybody ever try a penny shaped tip? in between a dime and a nickel. cant go wrong.
Click to expand...


Unless you plan on maintaining chalk that will produce a penny curvature, it's almost pointless to put so much work into it. 99.9% of your tip shaping is done with chalk. The shape of your chalk is the shape of your tip.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
Unless you plan on maintaining chalk that will produce a penny curvature, it's almost pointless to put so much work into it. 99.9% of your tip shaping is done with chalk. The shape of your chalk is the shape of your tip.
Click to expand...


How have you survived this long? Seriously? No...nobody could possibly believe that. Who knows, maybe you know something that the rest of us don't. :rolleyes:
 
DukeOfAim said:
How have you survived this long? Seriously? No...nobody could possibly believe that. Who knows, maybe you know something that the rest of us don't. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...


Actually, chalk is pretty abrassive and yes, use it after each shot and it shapes your tip. Carving a tip in any other shape is a waste of time. Changing curvature is only a temporary measure unless you have no problem wearing your tip down each month.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
Actually, chalk is pretty abrassive and yes, use it after each shot and it shapes your tip. Carving a tip in any other shape is a waste of time. Changing curvature is only a temporary measure unless you have no problem wearing your tip down each month.
Click to expand...

So you think that the way the chalk is shaped affects the way that the tip is shaped? Let's say for a moment that chalk is really harder than leather...the way that you move the chalk against the tip would be more of a factor than the way the chalk is shaped. Oh screw it, there's really no point. If anybody else thinks this way, please negative rep me, so that I can just be banned. If you don't, well, I'm a rep whore, so give me some positive rep!!!!!:D :D ;) :)
 
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