Having shaft diameter reduced - worth researching "the right shop?"

LC3

LC3

Playing the table
Silver Member
Is there enough difference between the pro tapers of competent cue makers and repair shops that it's worth researching the right one to reduce my cue's shaft diameter? I'd like to have it reduced from 13 mm to 12.75 mm. My hunch is that variations between shops might have a significant effect on the feel of the cue's hit, but I might be overthinking it. What has your experience been?

I'm fine with recommendations for a particular shop, but I'm hoping for information on the significance of variations of pro tapers between cue shops.

Thanks!
 
LC3 said:
Is there enough difference between the pro tapers of competent cue makers and repair shops that it's worth researching the right one to reduce my cue's shaft diameter? I'd like to have it reduced from 13 mm to 12.75 mm. My hunch is that variations between shops might have a significant effect on the feel of the cue's hit, but I might be overthinking it. What has your experience been?

I'm fine with recommendations for a particular shop, but I'm hoping for information on the significance of variations of pro tapers between cue shops.

Thanks!
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When I was planning to build cues I spent several months working on my shaft profile. The shaft profile not only in the pro taper section but above it makes a big difference. I would be very sure I understood exactly what the cue smith was planning to do. The change you are considering can have little effect on some shafts, make others almost unplayable.

You are taking roughly five thousandths off of the shaft all the way around. some smiths will cut and then sand the entire length, others will cut just the ferrule to size and sand the pro taper area to match feathering the end of the pro taper area into the existing profile above the pro taper.

With typical wooden shafts there is a slight taper to even the pro taper section, usually a thousandth or two. This needs to be maintained as a true straight cylinder will play horribly in my experience, the shaft flexes at the joint end of the pro taper instead of all along the pro taper section. A shaft should have much the same action as a good fishing rod.

Hu
 
measureman said:
I had a local cue maker reduce one of my shafts from 13 mm to 12.75 mm and he used another of my 12.75 mm shafts as a template and matched the taper perfectly.
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I think this is a great idea and any competent cue repair person should be able to reproduce the taper. That doesn’t mean it will have the same hit, as your template shaft, but it should feel the same in your bridge hand.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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ShootingArts said:
When I was planning to build cues I spent several months working on my shaft profile. The shaft profile not only in the pro taper section but above it makes a big difference. I would be very sure I understood exactly what the cue smith was planning to do. The change you are considering can have little effect on some shafts, make others almost unplayable.

You are taking roughly five thousandths off of the shaft all the way around. some smiths will cut and then sand the entire length, others will cut just the ferrule to size and sand the pro taper area to match feathering the end of the pro taper area into the existing profile above the pro taper.

With typical wooden shafts there is a slight taper to even the pro taper section, usually a thousandth or two. This needs to be maintained as a true straight cylinder will play horribly in my experience, the shaft flexes at the joint end of the pro taper instead of all along the pro taper section. A shaft should have much the same action as a good fishing rod.

Hu
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Thanks, Hu! This is exactly the kind of information I was hoping for.
 
I did the same thing as Measureman and provided a shaft to be used as the guide for the guy that turned mine down. He took measurements all along the example shaft and then matched my other shaft to that. Turned out fine, and I went from 13 down to 12mm, so a bigger change.
 
My own experience tells me that when a shaft is presented to a cue master for “ re-tapering” — the instructions need to be very clear - what exact shaft diameters do you want all along the full length of the shaft.

Expecting 12.75MM at the ferrule base must also include what shaft diameter you expect 10 inches down, 14 inches down , etc.

This becomes the basis for discussion with the cue master as to having the actual shaft taper end up to your satisfaction and his ability to meet that expectation.

Not having a detailed discussion can result in a shaft that is not to your liking and also not able to be corrected.
 
mikemosconi said:
My own experience tells me that when a shaft is presented to a cue master for “ re-tapering” — the instructions need to be very clear - what exact shaft diameters do you want all along the full length of the shaft.

Expecting 12.75MM at the ferrule base must also include what shaft diameter you expect 10 inches down, 14 inches down , etc.

This becomes the basis for discussion with the cue master as to having the actual shaft taper end up to your satisfaction and his ability to meet that expectation.

Not having a detailed discussion can result in a shaft that is not to your liking and also not able to be corrected.
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A good point here. To duplicate a shaft I measure at tip, joint, and every two inches in between. Perhaps one inch in areas where a parabolic arc is used. When designing my shaft I found the action of a shaft to be very sensitive to slight changes in this area.

The amount LC3 is wanting removed is on the fifty yard line between cutting then sanding or just sanding. Easy to end up with a shaft that isn't round with the slight taper desired. The shaft needs a measurement in the bridge area before making any changes when I think about it, just cleaning and polishing, normal treatment of a shaft, may have it down to 12.75mm or less in places. I have compressed some shafts more than that with just a very firm polishing. New shafts, not something I do to a customer's.

There is an issue we haven't touched on here since the original conversation was just reducing the bridging area. When talking about duplicating a shaft joint to tip there is a question of ethics in some cue builder's minds. I could have easily copied a quality shaft when I was starting out. I spent several months and went through over a dozen cue blanks before I had a shaft that delivered my hit starting with a good blank and designing my own taper. I suspect that my shaft profile is very close to what some others use but I copied nobody.

If a cue builder is still active and another shaft is desired with the same profile as one of theirs getting the shaft from them is something I recommend. There can be good reasons not to, but this should be first consideration. As a general statement, I don't copy shafts unless a cue builder is no longer available.

Hu
 
I turned down a cheap sneaky once with a pair of calipers and different grades of sand-paper. Took a lot of measurements as i went and it came out perfect. Even took the ferrule down then wet-sanded/polished it too. Would never do this on a nice cue but this sp was just too big and i didn't have access to a cue guy.
 
Given our shafts usually come 13mm unless we order a specific shaft or custom cue, I have had my shafts turned down by two local cue builders in the past (unfortunately they are no longer doing cue work).
  • Paul Allers did it free-handed with sandpaper, his cue tip lathe and caliper (Carmeli 13mm factory shaft)
  • Dave Jones did it using chase collets and sandpaper on his cue tip late, first chasing the shaft with some sandpaper then gradually chasing the shaft with decreasing size collets and trailing sandpaper (various 13mm shafts, I think this is the best way to assure the accurate desired taper) - https://atlassupplies.com/products/shaft-collets
Both ended up with the desired long pro taper 12.5mm diameter. I sometimes play with a 12.75mm diameter turned down shaft also. I bought a 12.5mm and 12.75 collet to have and bring if I ever get future shaft or tip work and have the desire to turn down a shaft.
 
There isn't a lot of shafts that will run true enough to turn them from 13mm to 12.75mm, and even if they did that allows nothing for finishing the shaft to playing condition. I doubt any experienced cue repair shop would even try. It's an easy enough modification, but nobody is turning it.
 
Renegade_56 said:
There isn't a lot of shafts that will run true enough to turn them from 13mm to 12.75mm, and even if they did that allows nothing for finishing the shaft to playing condition. I doubt any experienced cue repair shop would even try. It's an easy enough modification, but nobody is turning it.
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Turning it is a lot like the diaper, Depends. If you have the right adapter to thread the shaft onto at the joint end and a way to hold it at the other end such as my three jaw steady rest it is possible to turn some off of a shaft making that small of a change.

Hu
 
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ShootingArts said:
Turning it is a lot like the diaper, Depends. If you have the right adapter to thread the shaft onto at the joint end and a way to hold it at the other end such as my three jaw steady rest it is possible to turn some off of a shaft making that small of a change.

Hu
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Don't matter how you hold it, most used shafts don't run true enough to turn them just .01" over all.
 
Renegade_56 said:
Don't matter how you hold it, most used shafts don't run true enough to turn them just .01" over all.
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Don't matter how you hold it, you can't turn a shaft just .01.

I have the equipment and tooling to do it. I don't plan to turn a shaft .01. I plan to take half of that off before starting sanding.

Here is a free how to. Grab the pro taper section between two sets of jaws. Go through the chuck and stabilize the loose end. Viola as Smorg used to say.

It is a mistake to think because you can't do something, others can't.

Hu
 
If you go to someone with the proper equipment it wont be a problem, especially if the shaft is nice and straight. I use Kelly's cue cut and can input whatever parameters I want.
I remove the tip, put on a sacrificial piece of phenolic, center drill and turn the ferrule to a fraction over the new desired diameter, retaper the shaft, seal and finish it and at the same time sand and polish the ferrule and install a new tip.
 
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Sorry, but I serious doubt a shaft will play differently when one hundredth of an inch of wood is removed from a 13mm shaft. Especially if the shaft already has a pro taper. It may feel better to the player taking into account hand size and such, but that's about it.

Alan
 
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Cutting the taper with live tooling is always going to be more accurate. The less sanding done, the better. .25mm is slightly less than 10 thousandths of an inch, so there are some factors to consider. How straight the shaft is, how much you want taken off farther down the shaft, etc. If you're lucky and the shaft is straight, and the original taper thicker than you want it changed to, it can be cut. If it's warped or already too skinny farther down, it can probably just have the ferrule taken down and then sanded.
 
Renegade_56 said:
There isn't a lot of shafts that will run true enough to turn them from 13mm to 12.75mm, and even if they did that allows nothing for finishing the shaft to playing condition. I doubt any experienced cue repair shop would even try. It's an easy enough modification, but nobody is turning it.
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This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
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