Heart?

[JoeyInCali]

Efren down 87-104 to Earl, race to 120. Comes back and wins it.
Allison Fisher makes more comebacks than any female I know of.
Absolutely does not give up.
Ralf Souquet, Max Eberle and Alex Pagulayan these days for me.

 

[royuco77]

marlon manalo has a lot of heart in him. i remember 2 matches where he showed his "never say die attitude" in wpc quarterfinal 2004 and 2004 phil-taiwan invitational tournament (not sure bout the exact name of the tourney).

the amazing thing is that marlon faced yang ching shun in both tournaments and yang was at the hill!! i mean, how many times do you see yang on the hill and lose a match? not that often.

in the wpc, marlon came back from 8-4 (or 5) to win 9-8. in the other tourney, marlon came back from 8-1 to win it 9-8

 

[asn130]

Mika Immonen.

His motto is "show no mercy". In our Predator Pool School he let a 13 year old shoot a little, and then he crushed him. The other instructors and the students were giving him hell (and laughing of course) because this is a big point he made to everybody in his class.

For having started so late in pool, I think he had to have had a lot of heart just to get to where he is today.

Some people might think that a world champion crushing a 13yr old is brutal. It may make Mika sound like a monster, but let me ask you this. How many times have you beat YOURSELF up after losing to a guy/girl that you should have run over????

I think Mika hits the nail on the head.

 

[onepocketchump]

To be down in a money match or tournament against a great player and have the ability to overcome the elements and your opponent shows heart. To have no mercy on a 13 yer old kid at a pool school show something else entirely. That's pretty shitty if you ask my opinion. It's hard for me to respect a guy who would do something like that.

Mike

Maybe so, but the point is that if you begin to let up then it starts to creep in. I don't see that this example really has to do with heart so much as focus and intensity. I once saw Busta give up a game to a teenager during an exhibition and he was clearly pissed about it and won the next 17 games like it was the WC. That's what we pay for, not to see them let up.

In the pool school example, the lesson that the 13 year old got was priceless. The other instructors ought to be ashamed of themselves for razzing Mika about it. Everyone argues about whether Efren is the greatest player ever but no denies his spot among them. Well, Efren said the single most important piece of advice he gives is to maintain your concentration. That takes a lot of heart sometimes.

John

 

[onepocketchump]

I love this subject. My friend often jokes with me that when people say I have a lot of "heart" that they really mean I am a "sucker". There is truth to this on some level. It's hard to explain "heart" to people though. I run into a lot of younger players who just want the nuts all the time and you can just see that they will never have the feeling that comes with just stepping up into the unknown, digging deep and winning against the odds.

There is no fun getting the nuts. No high. Yeah, there's money there but I will BET REAL HIGH that 95% of the money won getting the nuts is pissed away shortly thereafter with nothing to show for it.

The other night I stepped up an played a guy I am not supposed to beat. I played him even one-hole for a $100 a game. After trading four games he told me we could raise the bet anytime. I offered to bet $300 a game. So we did and I won three games before he quit. Those of you with heart, spirit, gamble, whatever you want to call it, know what I mean when I say that doing that was worth more to me than winning 10,000 beating up on someone helpless. I crossed a bridge that night and the only reason I did is because I had the heart to step and play. Maybe it's stupidity to go up against "stronger" players but how do you ever get there unless you get around those in your way?

Here's to all the nuthunters and nits out there - grow some, get a transplant, whatever you need to do to do it, get some heart. You'll feel better about yourself.

My vote for most heart among the pros - Alex "The Lion" Pagulayan. Mr. "I found another 1500 in my back pocket later and I would have sent that in too if I'd have known it was there." After he beat the 11 ball ghost at JOB's with all his money on the line.

John

 

[mjantti]

The other night I stepped up an played a guy I am not supposed to beat. I played him even one-hole for a $100 a game. After trading four games he told me we could raise the bet anytime. I offered to bet $300 a game. So we did and I won three games before he quit. Those of you with heart, spirit, gamble, whatever you want to call it, know what I mean when I say that doing that was worth more to me than winning 10,000 beating up on someone helpless. I crossed a bridge that night and the only reason I did is because I had the heart to step and play. Maybe it's stupidity to go up against "stronger" players but how do you ever get there unless you get around those in your way?
John

Tap tap tap. Good post John !

I agree 100%. I know what you're talking about, I used to practice with Mika, Marko Lohtander and Markus Juva, all top players here in Finland. Now I'm creeping in the top of the pile and finished 4th in the Finnish rankings last year. Never would've done it if I hadn't played these much stronger guys even. Well, nothing usually at stake, but getting your a$$ kicked over and over again changed something in me. Maybe my heart grew bigger after each defeat and I was able to rise from the ashes like a phoenix bird.

 

[PoolBum]

Kim Davenport

 

[csf914]

I cant pick out a handful of players who have heart. Of all the names listed and not listed but players recognized by so many as professionals. It takes heart to play this game, the constant plateuing(sp?) of skill, being able to think you are the best and nobody can touch when infact there has got to be someone to stop you. Everybody gets stopped at some point, if not your biggest competitor will always win. Time. Eyes get bad, stroke gets shakey. I maybe completely out of line saying all this but, in my eyes its right. I see the beginners at pool halls who have been playing a month, miss so many shots in a row and say thats it I quit. Im sure at one point all of us got frustrated with the game, and some did quit. Pool is a game of heart. Certainly there are different people who stand out, but to play with the pros, be named as a pro takes heart. JMO, FWIW

 

[Mike Templeton]

I love this subject. My friend often jokes with me that when people say I have a lot of "heart" that they really mean I am a "sucker". There is truth to this on some level. It's hard to explain "heart" to people though. I run into a lot of younger players who just want the nuts all the time and you can just see that they will never have the feeling that comes with just stepping up into the unknown, digging deep and winning against the odds.

There is no fun getting the nuts. No high. Yeah, there's money there but I will BET REAL HIGH that 95% of the money won getting the nuts is pissed away shortly thereafter with nothing to show for it.

The other night I stepped up an played a guy I am not supposed to beat. I played him even one-hole for a $100 a game. After trading four games he told me we could raise the bet anytime. I offered to bet $300 a game. So we did and I won three games before he quit. Those of you with heart, spirit, gamble, whatever you want to call it, know what I mean when I say that doing that was worth more to me than winning 10,000 beating up on someone helpless. I crossed a bridge that night and the only reason I did is because I had the heart to step and play. Maybe it's stupidity to go up against "stronger" players but how do you ever get there unless you get around those in your way?

Here's to all the nuthunters and nits out there - grow some, get a transplant, whatever you need to do to do it, get some heart. You'll feel better about yourself.

My vote for most heart among the pros - Alex "The Lion" Pagulayan. Mr. "I found another 1500 in my back pocket later and I would have sent that in too if I'd have known it was there." After he beat the 11 ball ghost at JOB's with all his money on the line.

John

Hey John,

I heard about that match against Scott. He's a strong 1-hole player and you had to play well to get the best of that game. Congratulations.

I agree about Alex, as well. At the Derby a couple of years ago, I was standing there when he went in with his entire bankroll, and the keys to his car.

Mike

 

[onepocketchump]

Hey John,

I heard about that match against Scott. He's a strong 1-hole player and you had to play well to get the best of that game. Congratulations.

I agree about Alex, as well. At the Derby a couple of years ago, I was standing there when he went in with his entire bankroll, and the keys to his car.

Mike

Thanks, We'll see if the rematch goes as well. Scott's up on me in 9-ball so it felt good to snap off the 1-hole. I like one pocket so much better anyway because of the luck factor.

Did you hear what happened with Brady the same night? He tried to spot me 9-6 and the break - 1 game for $200 - and I snapped that one off too. I might not be able to get there with him with that spot but I figured I'd throw $200 at the wall and see if it stuck.

Later,

John

 

[Williebetmore]

At the Derby a couple of years ago, I was standing there when he went in with his entire bankroll, and the keys to his car.

Mike

Mike,
Is that really "heart" or just a significant gambling problem? I wonder how his wife/wives and kids felt about it? On the other hand, it certainly required more guts than I've got.

 

[Mike Templeton]

Thanks, We'll see if the rematch goes as well. Scott's up on me in 9-ball so it felt good to snap off the 1-hole. I like one pocket so much better anyway because of the luck factor.

Did you hear what happened with Brady the same night? He tried to spot me 9-6 and the break - 1 game for $200 - and I snapped that one off too. I might not be able to get there with him with that spot but I figured I'd throw $200 at the wall and see if it stuck.

Later,

John

John,

Brady plays good 1-hole, but from what I know, you should do ok at that game. Especially with the breaks. Where is everybody playing now? The last time I saw you was at that bar in Gastonia. I thought it was mostly bar table action around there now, with things around Charlotte and Albermarle.

Mike

 

[onepocketchump]

I don't really know where the action is around Charlotte. I play once a week, if that. I have been "on the road" at shows for the last few months.

John

 

[mel]

Parica should definitely be mentioned here. He's no muscular youngun bully drilling balls in the hole mile-a-minute with a screwface in hip hop chic/sports attire, but he won't give up and nothing intimidates him, it seems. Nothing droopy about the guy. No self-pity, nothing. Haven't seen him gamble yet, (talking tournaments here) so I don't know if other posters will qualify him as having heart based on what I said.

It's funny that you would pick on Parica with a big heart even if you haven't seen him gamble. You must be a very discerning person to be able to see trough him.

You are absolutely right in your perception. That guy has the heart of a champion..

I know him personally and have been betting on him for years., We go way back to our years in the Philippines. Once, he was in action with this player who was getting a lot of weight from him for a considerable amount.

Mind you, though, the other player is also a pro, no, correct that, a hustler who wouldn't play even; just wants to rob people. Long story short, the other guy got to the hill on a race to 11. Score was 11-2. Everybody was whooping and high fives were flying. Parica was silent and intense, guy missed an easy 2, Parica ran out. He broke, made three balls, and was out.

He ran 8 racks, broke, made a ball, played safe. Guy was getting nervous now, pushed out a little too far, and that's all she wrote. Parica won the cheese!!

When we asked him how he did it, he said all he needed was a chance to get his game going. He said he never thought that he would lose, even when the guy was on the hill. That was just one example of how big a heart he's got when it comes to adversity, and I've seen a lot from this little guy.

He said that you got to think that you came to win in order to win.

 

[bruin70]

I see alot of threads on here relating to which player has the smoothest stroke, most powerful stroke, etc. I thought it would be interesting to see who you guys thought had the most heart. I know that to be a pro,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Thanks.

all champions have "heart".
i don't like the word, however. it connotes a kind of stick to it-tiveness, which is too mild for me. i prefer to think that they have an INTENSE HATRED for losing. certainly, strickland wears this like a badge...although in those matches that he just gives up, it certainly goes against my definition, doesn't it.

 

[onepocketchump]

Strickland has NO HEART - AT ALL. Yes he hates losing and he makes sure sure everyone knows it. But he is a front runner all the way. How many stories are the about Strickland coming back from a huge deficit to win matches and tournaments? None that I have ever heard. More often you hear about him giving up halfway through a match when he is losing.

I don't agree that all champions have "heart" in the context we are talking about. Some champions are bred and they are champions because they have been conditioned to be good, conditioned to fade pressure and conditioned to expect to win.
Often, these players will dominate for a while but when they crack they really go off. Heart is going to the US Open and putting down your last $500 because you truly believe you deserve to be there. Heart is betting it all on yourself.

I have seen Souquet, down 8:0 in a race to 9 come back and win 9:8. I know that Strickland has the talent to win any match from 8:0 down but I can't see him having the heart to do it.

John

 

[PoolBum]

Mike,
Is that really "heart" or just a significant gambling problem? I wonder how his wife/wives and kids felt about it? On the other hand, it certainly required more guts than I've got.

That's a mighty fine line right there, between heart and a gambling addiction and other sorts of borderline psychological problems that sometimes mascarade as heart. And there are lots and lots of fools out there who don't know the difference.

 

[PoolBum]

Strickland has NO HEART - AT ALL. Yes he hates losing and he makes sure sure everyone knows it. But he is a front runner all the way. How many stories are the about Strickland coming back from a huge deficit to win matches and tournaments? None that I have ever heard. More often you hear about him giving up halfway through a match when he is losing.

I don't agree that all champions have "heart" in the context we are talking about. Some champions are bred and they are champions because they have been conditioned to be good, conditioned to fade pressure and conditioned to expect to win.
Often, these players will dominate for a while but when they crack they really go off. Heart is going to the US Open and putting down your last $500 because you truly believe you deserve to be there. Heart is betting it all on yourself.

I have seen Souquet, down 8:0 in a race to 9 come back and win 9:8. I know that Strickland has the talent to win any match from 8:0 down but I can't see him having the heart to do it.

John

I have to disagree with you on Strickland somewhat. It is definitely true that he throws in the towel at times, and I would never put my money on him because of his unpredictability on just that count, but he most definitely has heart in close matches. Here are three big-time examples.

Down 12-8 to Johnny Archer with Archer on the hill at the Sands Regency Open. Strickland plays almost flawlessly from there making some great outs to beat Johnny five games in a row and win 13-12.

Down 9-5 to Buddy Hall in the semifinals at the Sands, with Buddy playing absolutely perfectly. Buddy breaks the balls great, but nothing goes. The next time Buddy gets to the table he's down 10-9, and Strickland wins 11-9. Strickland would lose in the finals to another player with a ton of heart, Kim Davenport.

The finals against Bustamante in the 2002 WPC was a great match, with Strickland playing catch up for almost the entire second half of the match. Down 15-13 Strickland reels off the last four games to win his third world nineball championship 17-15.

I think it takes a ton of heart to perform that way against that kind of competition, and Strickland of course has also won the U.S. Open five times, which to my mind at least also takes a ton of heart and competitive fire.

 

[bruin70]

Strickland has NO HEART - AT ALL. Yes he hates losing and he makes sure sure everyone knows it. But he is a front runner all the way. How many stories are the about Strickland coming back from a huge deficit to win matches and tournaments? None that I have ever heard. More often you hear about him giving up halfway through a match when he is losing.

I don't agree that all champions have "heart" in the context we are talking about. Some champions are bred and they are champions because they have been conditioned to be good, conditioned to fade pressure and conditioned to expect to win.
Often, these players will dominate for a while but when they crack they really go off. Heart is going to the US Open and putting down your last $500 because you truly believe you deserve to be there. Heart is betting it all on yourself.

I have seen Souquet, down 8:0 in a race to 9 come back and win 9:8. I know that Strickland has the talent to win any match from 8:0 down but I can't see him having the heart to do it.

John

I generally have to agree with you about heart, which is why i preferred the phrase "an intense hatred of losing". i think they hate losing more than like winning.

 

[PoolBum]

I generally have to agree with you about heart, which is why i preferred the phrase "an intense hatred of losing". i think they hate losing more than like winning.

If that's true then Strickland wouldn't give up in some of his matches 'cause that just guarantees that he'll lose. I think it's the other way around. I think when Strickland senses the goalline the intensity and competitive fire come out more and more, because he has that drive to win. That's the only thing that explains five U.S. Open championships to my mind.

It's interesting to think about the winningest player of all time in this light though, Mike Sigel. There was a discussion that Grady and Incardona and I think Diliberto had on a tape one time about which player they thought hated losing the most, and I think the consensus was that Mike Sigel hated to lose more than anybody else in professional pool.