I seem to be comeing outside in on any hard shot and it is driving me crazy. On soft shots it doesn't seem to happen but any long table length shot with speed I do it something terrible. I know I need to work on it but that is what drives me nuts I can do the drill where you shoot the cue ball down table and make it come straight back to the tip but then again I am concetrating on it when I am preforming this drill but when I play I guess it is just a loss of concentration. It is driving me batty and killing my confidence. HELP What would be a better drill for this.
HELP I have a glitch in my stroke
- Thread starter sigep1967
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Get those 3-ring binder "reinforcement" stickers at an office supply. These are round stickers with a hole in the center.
Then set up a typical shot you are missing. Place a sticker under the object ball and a sticker under the cue ball. Then shoot the shot. Then replace the balls in the exact same spot. Then shoot the same exact shot again, and again, and again. 50 times! Does not matter if you miss a lot at first. You will still be learning. After many shots, you will start making them more and more often.
Then set up a typical shot you are missing. Place a sticker under the object ball and a sticker under the cue ball. Then shoot the shot. Then replace the balls in the exact same spot. Then shoot the same exact shot again, and again, and again. 50 times! Does not matter if you miss a lot at first. You will still be learning. After many shots, you will start making them more and more often.
That's good advice.....
Yeah i do that and that is not the problem. I can set it up and concentrate and make the ball as many times as I want. it seems to be a loss of focus where and bad stroke mechanic creeps in. I have done this since starting to play pool but thought I had it lick and now it is coming back. I guess I just need to make every shot seem like it is for the US open win or something to up my concentration.
I've read that it is harder to unlearn an old habit, than to relearn a new one. So instead of trying to correct the flaw in your stroke, maybe you need to get back to basics and build a solid stroke from the fundamentals?
You're not alone in that you twist your cue in some way on the hard shots when under pressure. Lots of people do that.
I do that drill you mentioned alot. It is good for softer to medium shots, but doesn't work too well for the hard shots. One drill that demands a nice smooth accurate stroke, is to setup the object ball and cueball near a rail and shoot the object ball into the corner pocket, while drawing the cueball back. Start with the object ball two diamonds from the corner, and the cueball two diamonds from the object ball. Consistently shoot the object ball into the corner and draw the cueball back to where you shot it from. Then move the cueball farther from the object ball, still drawing the cueball back to where you shot it from.
One other point: A smooth stroke is often more effective than slamming the cueball. Watch the pros...they rarely look like they're firing the cueball. They move the ball around with a smooth stroke and spin. Take the draw shot for example...a smooth stroke with follow-through will draw the cueball back much better than if you try to shoot hard "at" the cueball.
good luck.
You're not alone in that you twist your cue in some way on the hard shots when under pressure. Lots of people do that.
I do that drill you mentioned alot. It is good for softer to medium shots, but doesn't work too well for the hard shots. One drill that demands a nice smooth accurate stroke, is to setup the object ball and cueball near a rail and shoot the object ball into the corner pocket, while drawing the cueball back. Start with the object ball two diamonds from the corner, and the cueball two diamonds from the object ball. Consistently shoot the object ball into the corner and draw the cueball back to where you shot it from. Then move the cueball farther from the object ball, still drawing the cueball back to where you shot it from.
One other point: A smooth stroke is often more effective than slamming the cueball. Watch the pros...they rarely look like they're firing the cueball. They move the ball around with a smooth stroke and spin. Take the draw shot for example...a smooth stroke with follow-through will draw the cueball back much better than if you try to shoot hard "at" the cueball.
good luck.
I'm also trying to correct problems with my stroke, so this topic is of great interest to me.
If a person does have, for instance, an outside-in stroke problem, I could wonder whether repeating the same shot 50 times would tend to make the shooter learn to compensate by aiming differently? As opposed to trying to correct the stroke. And the issue of the stroke worsening when more force is applied could complicate aiming further? ("Okay, I'm not hitting this hard, so I need to aim over this way a bit")
I'm still mostly a beginner -- I don't mean any disrespect.
I know I have read authors who state that each person may need to learn to aim in a way that compensates for their individual stroke.
If a person does have, for instance, an outside-in stroke problem, I could wonder whether repeating the same shot 50 times would tend to make the shooter learn to compensate by aiming differently? As opposed to trying to correct the stroke. And the issue of the stroke worsening when more force is applied could complicate aiming further? ("Okay, I'm not hitting this hard, so I need to aim over this way a bit")
I'm still mostly a beginner -- I don't mean any disrespect.
I know I have read authors who state that each person may need to learn to aim in a way that compensates for their individual stroke.
bill190 said:
sigep1967 said:
For one thing, the up and down the table drill (lag) is really a soft hit so to find out more about your hard hitting problems, it needs to be up and down the table 4 rails, instead of two.If you can do this without any problems, then during a match, your thoughts are coming into your play which then leads to distracting emotions.
This is just my opinion. In a soft hit, our brain tells us no strength is required. On hard shots, our brain tells us 'gosh I gotta hit this hard, this requires more strength'. In reality, the hard hit requires no strength at all. It just requires moving the cue through the stroke a bit faster.
That is why, even though Whitewolf is a better player by far, I have the smoother stroke. I have no tension in my muscles, he has little but even a little can sometimes be a problem. I have a loose grip but that does not help much if a person's subconscious brain is saying 'I have to hit this harder' and our conscious brain converts this to 'hitting hard -strength-muscle power'. Our brains can be very subtle and can sabotage our stroke and other things without us knowing it.
To take this out requires the ability to completely shut the brain down. We have had many discussions on this,whitewolf and I. Some players learn this naturally while some have to give themselves a sort of self hypnotic command to do this. There is a reason why Ralf Souquet spends more time in meditation than he does in practice.
One thing I noticed early on. After pausing at the cb, locking my eyes on the ob,some players pause on that last backswing. It works for many but not me. For me, that pause at the back gave my brain just enough time to interfere, interject thoughts and often my forward stroke was not nearly as good as my prestrokes.Like you , however, this did not have as bad of an effect on the short soft ones as the long hard ones because even a little bit off translates to missing the long ones. So, when I took out that pause, I became smooth. Not a great player, because I am not, but smooth, no muscling of the upper arm muscles.
Each person has to find their own way. Lessons are invaluable, the stroke trainer has helped many, but in the end, it is my belief that each player has to be their own detective and notice when they go crooked what is causing this, what is going on in the muscle groups and in the brain. You can have someone feel your bicept muscle as you start your forward approach and if there is any tightness or tension there at all, this is what is making the stroke go off. Then there is the why and more often than not, this answer lies in the messages from the brain.
Not a great player. Just a long time (20 years) student of meditation, zen and self hypnosis among a few other mental techniques.
Laura
Some very good info here guys thanks. I read about another drill that I try to do when this starts happening which is a long straight in shot and haveing the cueball follow the ob in to the pocket. I try to do this when I know my stroke is acting up and ususlly this helps I just wish I could get rid of this glitch when playing someone so I don't get my a$$ handed to me for missing an easy shot (which drives me crazy)
whitewolf said:
I heartily agree with the Stroketrainer, it works.
As far as point 2 goes, sounds a lot like "The Inner Game of Tennis" which I also suggest reading.
Steve Ellis said:
The inner game of tennis is great. I think that as far as sports go, it is probably the best mental book I have seen. It teaches you to just do the action, to shut that brain down, to do the game ,just to do it , with no worrying about the outcome.
At one time I could not make long cuts unless I was lucky. Well naturally my brain was saying, 'that looks like a hard one, are you sure you can make it'? The reality is that all of the balls were fuzzy due to astigmatism, i could not see the contact point and I was just guessing and lucked them in sometimes, sometimes not.
Then I had laser vision surgery and the balls were clear and I could see the contact point and started making these shots.Not all of the time, but enough that I saw that I could now make them. What I noticed when i missed them was that the brain was saying 'that is a hard one' . So i am now noticing big time the messages coming from my brain. These messages are no longer accurate for me and I have to shut them down ang get my brain instead to say, 'that is an easy shot'. It is better of course that the brain shut up but in the interim, the bad stuff has to be shut down.
Now, not counting the shots that are obviously outside of my skill level like extremely difficult cuts, hard kicks, and so on, I am talking about the basic shots that come up all the time. And 80% of the time I miss one of these shots it is due to my brain saying negative things. It is that way with the s troke too if it comes across crooked on the last follow. The prestroke is natural, then it is like the brain says,'this is it, you better do this right' LOL.That is something I had to learn to shut down as well, to totally trust that stroke.
The inner game of tennis adresses these brain problems. Personally , the man who wrote it was ahead of his time and I think that it should be part of the library of anyone learning to play pool and wanting to get better.
Laura
B
bluemarlin
Guest
Sort of off-topic:
I have a bit of a problem with long shots, which doesn't bother me TOO much, but I have just as much of a problem with the long straight-as-an-arrow shots. Now, I'm trying to figure out something: I seem to miss the shot when I do a softer stroke, but when I do my hard stroke, it almost always goes in.
Now, does this means there's too much movement of the cue tip when I'm doing my slow stroke?
I have a bit of a problem with long shots, which doesn't bother me TOO much, but I have just as much of a problem with the long straight-as-an-arrow shots. Now, I'm trying to figure out something: I seem to miss the shot when I do a softer stroke, but when I do my hard stroke, it almost always goes in.
Now, does this means there's too much movement of the cue tip when I'm doing my slow stroke?
bluemarlin said:
Sr\troke probems or unintentional english on the cb are always a possibilty. One thing that I havenoticed on the long straight in that if I hit it too soft and the cb loses power and deviates from the original path. If you are shooting long cuts, swerve can come into play on the soft hits more so than the hard ones and in cut, contact inducuced throw can come into play. If my memory serves me corretly a firm hit minizes the effects of swerve and contact induced throw seems to be not as much as a problem. In conctact induced throw,the cb and ob ball cling for a short time, which can take the ob ball off of its intended path. Some have come up with compenssation strategies for this but I am guessing that in a firm hit, the effects of contact induced throw is also minimixed. So i hit the long ones firm if it will give me shape. they do seem to go better.
Laura
Did some stroke practice at home before going out and playing last night. I really paid attention to my stroke while playing and only noticed mys glitch one time on a shot where the cue ball was frozen on the rail. Played much better last night put together several 3 packs.
Stroke Mechanics
Because of my schooling I have played pool for three months on and basically 8 months off for my four years of college. As a result, I have essentially re-constructed my stroke every summer of my college career. And in doing this I have learned that your procedure for "addressing the ball"...getting into your stance and down on your shot has as much to do with how you produce a pool stroke as almost anything else, if not more so.
Try to pay attention to where your body is in relation to the path your cue has to take to go through the ball. Is your body typically in the way or too far away? Try and change things to see what effect this has on your stroke. Eventually, you will begin to understand how to best place your body in a position where it will produce a smooth and straight stroke.
I have made many improvements this way
kollegedave
Because of my schooling I have played pool for three months on and basically 8 months off for my four years of college. As a result, I have essentially re-constructed my stroke every summer of my college career. And in doing this I have learned that your procedure for "addressing the ball"...getting into your stance and down on your shot has as much to do with how you produce a pool stroke as almost anything else, if not more so.
Try to pay attention to where your body is in relation to the path your cue has to take to go through the ball. Is your body typically in the way or too far away? Try and change things to see what effect this has on your stroke. Eventually, you will begin to understand how to best place your body in a position where it will produce a smooth and straight stroke.
I have made many improvements this way
kollegedave
sigep1967 said:
kollegedave said:
Good point. Sometimes we forget about alignment. In my preshot, I notice if i am stroking straight. If I am not I move my feet a bit to get a straighter stroke. Sometimes, though, the shot is in an awkward position and I find it hard to get that allignment tha produces the straight stroke. In those cases, whever it will give me that correct alignment, I try to shoot with the opposite hand. I do not shoot quite as well with my opposite hand but do okay on the easy ones like the ones where it is a rail shot to an easy corner pot. Sometimes this keeps me from having to use the bridge as much. Actually, I hate the thing,much prefer to practice my off hand shooting. LOL
Laura
OT: applause
Dave,
This is a off the topic of stroke mechanics, but I've got to applaud you for having your priorities in order. Bravo!
kollegedave said:
Dave,
This is a off the topic of stroke mechanics, but I've got to applaud you for having your priorities in order. Bravo!