Can anyone identify either of these two cues and estimate an approximate era of production? Are these collectible at all? I was pondering having the butterfly cue refinished and maybe have a buttcap put on it. Bad idea?
Help identifying old Brunswick balke collender cues
- Thread starter jalapus logan
- Start date
1920-1930 I would guess on the label cue. They had a fat butt most times and would make cool conversions. You can find them for sale in the $50 to $100 range if the label is in good shape and they are straight.
The double butterfly cue looks to be one piece. I have a few and have seen many two piece butterfly cues but not many one piece cues. Its hard to tell from the pic but it looks a little thin for a conversion. A company named Katz made cues like this as did Brunswick. If the dimensions are correct it would make an amazing conversion in the hands of the right cuesmith.
The double butterfly cue looks to be one piece. I have a few and have seen many two piece butterfly cues but not many one piece cues. Its hard to tell from the pic but it looks a little thin for a conversion. A company named Katz made cues like this as did Brunswick. If the dimensions are correct it would make an amazing conversion in the hands of the right cuesmith.
I agree. And it could be a Rieper as well as Katz.
You'll notice that many conversations of these clip the tips of the butterfly at the joint because many were a bit skinny. And this one does look skinny.
They do make nice conversions IMHO. I have several mid century and earlier. I have a thing for them.
If this one was thick enough to keep the full butterfly points I would convert. If not, then leave it one piece. Its a nice one.
Cue buddy, thanks a bunch, hope you're well! And thanks chopdoc! Per my measurements, it looks like the diameter about a quarter " past the butterflies measure .847 of an inch. Too thin for a conversion?
I'm thinking about leaving it one peice but having it refinished and a new buttcap put on. What do you guys think?
Lastly, if it helps I'd the cue, it has a flat part on the rear of the butt kind of like what I've seen on snooker cues. Does that help identify the maker?
Thanks guys, you rule!
I'm thinking about leaving it one peice but having it refinished and a new buttcap put on. What do you guys think?
Lastly, if it helps I'd the cue, it has a flat part on the rear of the butt kind of like what I've seen on snooker cues. Does that help identify the maker?
Thanks guys, you rule!
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I think that it would convert. I am converting a very old butterfly right now that is .015 smaller then that! Funny the butt on mine is 1.410.....HUGE.
Mine is being converted because the shaft on this cue had a crazy bend to it so it was an easy decision for me to cut it.
Mine is being converted because the shaft on this cue had a crazy bend to it so it was an easy decision for me to cut it.
There have been a number of triple butterflies on Ebay in recent months for some pretty stiff prices. I have saved pics of all of them.
There was also one beautiful early conversion of a multiple butterfly Katz that I positively identified. It had a very rare wrap. He accepted my offer...then the seller backed out and made excuses. And he didn't refund me. I called Ebay. I have their "Concierge" Service". I had my money back in 5 minutes. But I wanted the cue.
I have a feeling he got a better offer after he accepted mine. That SOB was selling several cues and then disappeared. Turns out I got another cue from him earlier. Nice deal. After that he started jacking up his asking prices. I didn't even realize it until later. So I had his name and address but had tossed the box with the shipping label. As far as I am concerned the guy is a real POS. I hope nobody on AZB has that cue. I guess I would be a good sport about it with them but I sure would tell them what I think of people that muscle in on a deal in progress.
Anyway...to the OP....that's a cool cue. I would consider converting it. But if you have a table at home it would look nice on the wall. You could have it restored.
The wedge on the end was common on many old pool cues. It is the remnants of the mace that the pool cue evolved from. It really does not likely help ID the cue.
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Interesting that you bring up Katz....
Just yesterday I accidentally came across an ad for Katz cues from 1946...
I had not known that they were still in business that recently, but apparently they were...and possibly even later.
( had to amend the data in my pre-20s cue thread)
Anyway
Just yesterday I accidentally came across an ad for Katz cues from 1946...
I had not known that they were still in business that recently, but apparently they were...and possibly even later.
( had to amend the data in my pre-20s cue thread)
Anyway
I will have to check that thread out again.
I assumed the Katz made many of these cues or blanks for other companies to hang their names on. There are many of these butterfly cues that have different pins but the woods and veneers look very close to one another.
I hear ya. And I wouldn't disagree with that line of thought.
What I would really like to do is find some info related to Katz output vs Rieper.
I get the impression - just an impression- that Rieper might have been putting out way more cues but I'm really not certain.
I'm looking forward to digging more up.
On the subject of Katz, I think you will find this piece very interesting.
Two words: Benny Bernstein
Click here
Two words: Benny Bernstein
Click here
I believe there is evidence they were around into the 1950's. The evidence I speak of is cues.
Both Katz and Rieper made more cues than some people might think. It seems most of their cues were sold under other brand names and/or the cues were not marked.
The pin is the tell on the Katz cues, and I believe we can see them in catalogs from various suppliers into the 1950's. They are not marked or advertised as Katz though.
I can't prove it yet, but I do think at this point that there were Katz built cues around in the 1950's and I think I have a couple.
Now, it is also possible that they were just NOS or that they were leftovers that were converted later.
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Thank you! :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
Fun stuff guys, keep it coming. I'm thinking about getting the butterfly cue refinished for sure. I think it would look good in my cue rack:
Too bad you lost that cue but there might be another out there with your name on it. I thought I was the only one who saves cue pictures from the web.:wink:
Very cool link. That story makes me want to get rid of my Katz cues.....Almost.
Fun stuff guys, keep it coming. I'm thinking about getting the butterfly cue refinished for sure. I think it would look good in my cue rack:
I always wanted one of those revolving cue racks but the prices are crazy high. I ended up building this one. The center cue is the axle between the top and bottom. This cue rack holds 18 cues, 19 if you count the axle cue
You can see my double butterfly cues up front.
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Yup...I save many, many pictures. Helps me ID cues. :wink:
The one I missed was a treasure, at least to me. I am always looking for antiques. Most are looking for Brunswick...I am looking for numerous others.
There is one cue right now...somewhere for sale... that I am confident 99% have no idea what it is and most probably passed it over thinking it is a Taiwan import. We'll see if I pick it up.
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Too bad you lost that cue but there might be another out there with your name on it. I thought I was the only one who saves cue pictures from the web.:wink:
Very cool link. That story makes me want to get rid of my Katz cues.....Almost.
I always wanted one of those revolving cue racks but the prices are crazy high. I ended up building this one. The center cue is the axle between the top and bottom. This cue rack holds 18 cues, 19 if you count the axle cue
You can see my double butterfly cues up front.
Cuebuddy, what an awesome collection!
I find the prospect of Katz making cues for Hoppe very intriguing.
Did he prefer them over Rambow's?
Inquiring minds want to know.