Help! I'm at wit's end.

S

Secaucus Fats

Banned
I do minor cue repairs on the side..tips, ferrules, shaft reconditioning. It's not something I do for a living, just something I enjoy doing.

I have a Unique Products "Cue Companion" repair lathe. Lately I have been having a real bear of a problem. When I face off a ferrule it comes out "domed" (convex ?). I have done everything I could think of: aligned the lathe, replaced the bit and made sure it is at the proper angle, tightened everything down. Nothing seems to work. :( What am I doing wrong?

Any help would be most gratefully appreciated.

TIA,
Fats
 
Lock the tailstock.
Make sure the bits are ULTRA-sharp.
I suggest grinding steel bits intead of carbide.
Make sure the cutter is a hair under the center axis.
Make sure you are spinning as fast as possible.
 
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Secaucus Fats said:
I do minor cue repairs on the side..tips, ferrules, shaft reconditioning. It's not something I do for a living, just something I enjoy doing.

I have a Unique Products "Cue Companion" repair lathe. Lately I have been having a real bear of a problem. When I face off a ferrule it comes out "domed" (convex ?). I have done everything I could think of: aligned the lathe, replaced the bit and made sure it is at the proper angle, tightened everything down. Nothing seems to work. :( What am I doing wrong?

Any help would be most gratefully appreciated.

TIA,
Fats
Click to expand...
I would say to stop using the tip shaper to face off your ferrules.

Or maybe the cross slide isn't traveling square to the face.

Or, the chuck isn't tightened on the shaft, and the shaft is backing up while you face off. Assuming you always start from the outside in as opposed to inside out like bowl turning.

Or you are indeed facing the ferrule off square, but not sanding your tips correctly giving the false sense that the ferrule is convex. BTDT.

Has this always been a problem?

Fred
 
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Cornerman said:
I would say to stop using the tip shaper to face off your ferrules.

Or maybe the cross slide isn't traveling square to the face.

Or, the chuck isn't tightened on the shaft, and the shaft is backing up while you face off. Assuming you always start from the outside in as opposed to inside out like bowl turning.

Or you are indeed facing the ferrule off square, but not sanding your tips correctly giving the false sense that the ferrule is convex. BTDT.

Has this always been a problem?

Fred
Click to expand...
Chatter is a problem with CC.
The tailstock is only aluminum. And the ways aren't that heavy.
So the tool bit has to be really sharp and mounted as SHORT as possible.
 
I don't own this machine, but I would have to aggree It sounds like push off. some of the things mentioned already are universal problems though, and sound like good answers are being given here to me.
as mentioned already, but things I've ran accross myself-
dull bits
shaft backing out of the jaws
cutting tool or toolpost pushing off
And not that I have to, but I like to shorten My bits up in the toolpost like joey mentioned, they just seem to cut cleaner that way.
I can shim the tool bits on My toolpost to getting them centered, so that they don't demple the middle of the face.

Not sure If this was mentioned, but if the ferrule is extended out too far from the jaws, It can sometimes cause push off to be worse. I'm sure I'm forgetting some, but most of what popped in My head has been mentioned already, and I'm not as familiar with the machine in question.

Greg
 
Cue Crazy said:
Not sure If this was mentioned, but if the ferrule is extended out too far from the jaws, It can sometimes cause push off to be worse. I'm sure I'm forgetting some, but most of what popped in My head has been mentioned already, and I'm not as familiar with the machine in question.

Greg
Click to expand...
The odd thing is that all of these problems are readily visible, aren't they? I know S-Fats has bad eyes and all, but I think/hope he could see the tool push off. Maybe.

I wonder how convex he really is getting? I know I had the biggest problem with the Rapid Top Sander, thinking I was rolling the edges, when in fact it was my piss poor tip sanding technique and I was rolling over the tip edges. It was so subtle that I just didn't see it until I saw it. The ferrule was dead flat. The tip wasn't.

Fred
 
"domed" facing

Hi Fats,

I don't use a Cue Companion, but I have had similar problems with my Porper model B. This usually occurs when there is play on your cross feed. Keep one hand on the feed wheel, and the other on your compound and you should be fine. This is a common problem on the lightweight aluminum "toy" or "hobby lathes."

FYI I ended up building a locking mechanism on the feed wheel to prevent this.
 
I have your lathe. I still use it often. The problem is a cross between everything thats mentioned above.
1) use sharp tool bit...sticking out as short as possible.
2) make sure the shaft is tight...it is moving or you wouldn't have an issue
3) have only the ferrule sticking out of the chuck
4) spin fast as possible

That chuck design only allows you to tighten but so tight. Combined with less than sharp tool bit...and its quite easy to dome one. I have my tools resharpened by a man that cuts them with much more relief than they are new. He told me new ones were not as sharp as his...now I believe him. Pm me your address...I'll send you one. It will end your problems.
KV
 
OF course, you can dome the bottom of the tips too to match the ferrule.
Might be patentable. :)
 
Is that ...........

kind of like finding it in the *last place* you looked?
.....................................................................................................
Quote from Cornerman:

It was so subtle that I just didn't see it until I saw it.

......................................................................................................
Funny stuff.........
 
this is just a summary of the first couple of posts and it's what I do every time...
1. Tighten the chuck on the shaft with the "cute little screwdriver thingies"!
2. LOCK the cutter down
3. SLOWLY feed the cutter
This should help you out. If you still have problems, drop me a PM and I'll try to recreate your problem and help you through it.
 
Secaucus Fats said:
When I face off a ferrule it comes out "domed" (convex ?). I have done everything I could think of: aligned the lathe, replaced the bit and made sure it is at the proper angle, tightened everything down.
Click to expand...
I have the same lathe and I understand your problem and know how to fix it. My problem will be how to explain it...I'll try; angle the bit so just the point of the bit does the cutting. You now are aligning the bit so the back of the bit is cutting the ferrule AFTER the point does its cutting. That causes the DOME. I hope this helps.
 
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Secaucus Fats said:
I do minor cue repairs on the side..tips, ferrules, shaft reconditioning. It's not something I do for a living, just something I enjoy doing.

I have a Unique Products "Cue Companion" repair lathe. Lately I have been having a real bear of a problem. When I face off a ferrule it comes out "domed" (convex ?). I have done everything I could think of: aligned the lathe, replaced the bit and made sure it is at the proper angle, tightened everything down. Nothing seems to work. :( What am I doing wrong?

Any help would be most gratefully appreciated.

TIA,
Fats
Click to expand...
The previous post are correct...
Lots of things can contribute to this. If you call Unique Products, on Monday I can help you with the issue, probably will solve it within minutes. Ask for Jim 812-376-8887
 
Are you serious........?

billiardbum said:
The previous post are correct...
Lots of things can contribute to this. If you call Unique Products, on Monday I can help you with the issue, probably will solve it within minutes. Ask for Jim 812-376-8887
Click to expand...

I can really talk to you live? Bryan will allow that? What time you normal people take a lunch over there? I hate to interupt a good meal!!
 
Cornerman said:
The odd thing is that all of these problems are readily visible, aren't they? I know S-Fats has bad eyes and all, but I think/hope he could see the tool push off. Maybe.

I wonder how convex he really is getting? I know I had the biggest problem with the Rapid Top Sander, thinking I was rolling the edges, when in fact it was my piss poor tip sanding technique and I was rolling over the tip edges. It was so subtle that I just didn't see it until I saw it. The ferrule was dead flat. The tip wasn't.

Fred
Click to expand...



Possible to see It, and I probably did at one time, but seems like now I can feel It in the crosslide handle, before I see It anymore other then what the faces look like, which also gives it away. I have'nt had a real severe pushoff in a while, that is since I started sharpening My own tool bits, so that could have something to do with It. If It's really bad, yes you will most definatly see It, but usually for me it's very slight, and not quite as easy to see. Depends on what's causing the problem I guess.

I use a flat board that's about 5"x5" square with emery paper glued to It to sand My tips. I've been there, and You can get a false sense of a flat tip, before It's actually flat, but I've got to the point where I can feel when It's flat by the way It sands. You can roll the edges though with poor sanding like you mention. I've done that in the past also, or thought It was flat before It was, especially when priming, then sanding the tips. I like to check the ferrule and tip with the side of My calibers like you would do when sanding ringwork just to be sure the faces are nice and flat.
Could be either the tip or ferrule I suppose. If one of us were hands on with him, it would be easier to see I suppose, but otherwise all you can do Is throw all of It out there for him to check.

I read 2 more things mentioned that I've experienced also- making sure the crosslide is locked good depending on type of lathe, and some cutting tools have a lip that can roll the OD edge of the ferrule if the tool is angled too squarely with the ferrule. This is usually easy to see, and happens to me after grinding new edges on the tool bits, because you loose some of the lenth in the tool bit afterwards. What I do is what was mentioned I angle the bit so it just misses the edge, but still faces cleanly.

Greg
 
BarenbruggeCues said:
I can really talk to you live? Bryan will allow that? What time you normal people take a lunch over there? I hate to interupt a good meal!!
Click to expand...
No lunch, we are all broke, and no time :(
 
Cornerman said:
The odd thing is that all of these problems are readily visible, aren't they? I know S-Fats has bad eyes and all, but I think/hope he could see the tool push off. Maybe.

I wonder how convex he really is getting? I know I had the biggest problem with the Rapid Top Sander, thinking I was rolling the edges, when in fact it was my piss poor tip sanding technique and I was rolling over the tip edges. It was so subtle that I just didn't see it until I saw it. The ferrule was dead flat. The tip wasn't.

Fred
Click to expand...
How do you get the tip perfectly flat now? I have always wondered how flat my tips are once I sand the back of them...
 
billiardbum said:
How do you get the tip perfectly flat now? I have always wondered how flat my tips are once I sand the back of them...
Click to expand...

As far as getting your tips perfectly flat, I took a note from planer blade and chisel sharpening instructions. Take a piece of plate glass or thick MDF (It is much more flat than any other piece of wood you just purchase) and put your sandpaper on top of them. This gives you a perfectly flat surface to work with, now you just have to be careful with the way you sand the tip. I usually rotate it as I'm sanding to make sure if I am putting too much pressure on one side, I end up doing it to all sides. Then like Cue Crazy said, just check it with the top of your calipers which will give you a completely flat area to check how flat the bottom of the tip/ferrule is.
 
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