Help needed for choosing the right cloth

A little backround to start....Last session was the first time I have played in a pool league (APA 8 ball). I just happened into it, but enjoy it more than I woulda thought. I'm not into pool as much as most of the others on this forum, but it seems to be growing on me as I play more. OK, that said...
I also purchased my table recently (actually before I started playing in a league though). I knew a pricey table would probably just be wasted on me. I bought an AMF Playmaster (Oxford model). That's right, not TOP OF THE LINE!!! I was however talked into a slight upgrade of cloth. It has Championship Mercury Ultra cloth. Championship Titan and Mercury Ultra were just a very slight upcharge over the Mali cloth that came standard, and I was told the CMU cloth played faster like the REALLY expensive cloths...so I said, "what the heck". The table came with Aramith Premium balls, and upgrades were certainly available, but I declined (do I need the same set thats played on TV? No.). So, I have an elcheapo table (according to some on here) with middle of the road cloth, and sub-pro-level balls. It plays VERY nicely!!!! :) And, everyone that has come over here to shoot agrees (these are guys from league that have played forever on lotsa different set-ups). All in all I think I made out very nicely on something that I wanted for not a TON of dough.
Besides, I have at least a half a dozen drivers that I'll hafta try this year, and that's taxing enough on the pocketbook! :)
 
trustyrusty said:
So, I have an elcheapo table (according to some on here) with middle of the road cloth, and sub-pro-level balls. It plays VERY nicely
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What you have is a good setup that plays nicely and if you're happy with it then that is the bottom line. One doesn't need a diamond, 860, super pros and an original balabushka to be able to enjoy the game.
 
JimS said:
We can't know what your dealer is offering but if you get a price for the upgrade to Super Pro balls or Centennial balls (my personal favorite.. like the look) and an upgrade in cloth to Siminois 860 (you can see that others are ok but you can count on Siminois... it's a known quantity) then bring the price back to the forum you'll get informed opinions on whether you are getting a good deal or whether you need to haggle a bit more.
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Thanks, I'll see what the numbers are go from there. I think his prices are generally very fair, so I'm not too worried. He did talk me into Gorina Basalt instead of Simonis 860. He said speed-wise it was comparable to the 860, but he gives better marks to the Gorina when it comes to durability, wear and not showing burn marks so easily. What do you guys think? Again, I know that for MY style of playing (nuthin' too fancy, not much English and I attempt only the easier bank shots) any of the top-grade cloth is bit of overkill...but I'll grow into it and I want to know that it is providing me a quality level of play, matching what I think will be a very good overall table. Aesthetics and durability are important, too. But I'd put up with a few marks if it means I'm getting a better, more "true" playing experience from the cloth.

Rod
 
Foolonthehill said:
I've had Brunswick Centennial cloth on my table for about two years now and frankly, I'm not very happy with it. Seems very susceptible to those white burn spots. It has held up pretty well from a wear standpoint, but doesn't look very good after only a couple of years.
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I too had many white burn spots with the Centennial cloth I got with a new table. I noticed that the cue ball I got with the table started looking kind of dull, even after washing. I purchase a Saluc cue ball to use instead, and immediately stopped getting burn marks. If you have a cheaper, generic cue ball, you might want to replace it with a Saluc/Aramith CB. They appear to be much more heat resistant. Not sure if the Centennial cloth is a factor or not--YMMV.
 
realkingcobra said:
Brunswick Centennial, Super Arimith, Simonis Cloth...the best of the best...of the best of the best!!! Just wondering how many of you free advice givers...have the best of the best....on a Diamond 9ft Professional, or a Diamond 9ft ProAm table that you OWN? Because all you "POOL" players that would give such advice as to only buy the "best of the best" certainly would only own the "best of the best" pool table to install that cloth on, and to play with them balls...right? Because, if you don't own a Diamond...then that kind of makes you all a little short....don't it? Regardless of what anyone might say, there is "NO" substitute for a Diamond 9ft Professional/ProAm pool table as it is the "best of the best", but if you don't happen to have one, then I take it that the reason for that is because then you'd have to spend your own money to own one...instead of someone else's, so take that into consideration when giving someone free advice on a beginner pool table, for beginner players that don't have the same addictions that you players do, at least the subscriber NOW has a pool table...right?

Glen
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I don't have a Diamond but own a 9 ft Brunswick Heritage. I was a beginner at the time I bought it. It is the same table as a Gold Crown except it has the old style look of leather drop pockets. Diamonds were not made at the time I bought it 30 years ago. I am very frugal. I like to pay for stuff one time. I found that if you buy quality stuff you enjoy it more and it last longer. Also have Centennials and Aramith Super Pro Cup balls.

I would go with the the blue Simonis 860 and Centennials or Super Pros. Installation cost the same no matter what price of cloth you use and another $100 or so will be cheaper in the long run. Just think of all the table time you will be saving. Every time you use your table put a dollar or so into a pot. In a short time you will have enough to pay for extra cost invested.
 
Thanks for the reply. I think my table plays better than the Diamond bar boxes w/Simonis cloth that I play in league (although they see a lot more action than my table does). The Mercury Ultra cloth is nice too...I've played on tables with "lesser quality" cloth, and the CMU cloth definitely sets itself apart from those. Surprised that it doesn't cost a bit more thaan it did. I think I made a good decision there. As far as durability??? Jury's still out since I haven't had it a full year yet, but it certainly doesn't mark up easily.

Anyone else out there try Championship's Mercury Ultra cloth? How's it holding up (if you've had it longer than I have)? And, are differnces between my Premier set of balls and the "PRO" balls merely cosmetic, or it there a higher degree of tolerences for the pricy balls?
 
trustyrusty said:
Anyone else out there try Championship's Mercury Ultra cloth? How's it holding up (if you've had it longer than I have)? And, are differnces between my Premier set of balls and the "PRO" balls merely cosmetic, or it there a higher degree of tolerences for the pricy balls?
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The Premiers are an excellent ball set but there are differences and you get what you pay for.
You can read about the tech specs between Premiers, Premiums and Super Pros here > Saluc/Aramith

Mercury Ultra (aka the poor mans simonis) is a 19oz woolen cloth with a finer/smoother finish then most standard type woolen cloths such as Titan and Forstmann (both 21oz). Valley uses Ultra (Ultra with Teflon = Valley Ultra Teflon) on their new tables. You will get pilling and fuzzing just like any other woolen cloth. Durability (a term best reserved for commercial billiard rooms) is a function of the amount of play and maintenence of the cloth and this will be different among home table owners. As a rule of thumb you should get several years of service with Ultra on a home table.
 
I had 860 installed on my table about 8 months ago.and although it does play and hold up very nicely I think I prefer the granito basalt that I had before and I intend to use Granito the next time I need new cloth. I also have centennial balls because I love the way the look.:)
 
JimS said:
We can't know what your dealer is offering but if you get a price for the upgrade to Super Pro balls or Centennial balls (my personal favorite.. like the look) and an upgrade in cloth to Siminois 860 (you can see that others are ok but you can count on Siminois... it's a known quantity) then bring the price back to the forum you'll get informed opinions on whether you are getting a good deal or whether you need to haggle a bit more.
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Well, I don't know exactly what he was including for balls as a "package" with the table. I'm pretty sure it was some type of Forstmann cloth and possibly basic Aramith balls. I just got his numbers to upgrade to what I want. I'll have to ask him what his standard package normally includes for sure, but these "upgrade" prices seem a little steep to me: he wants $225 to step up to Basalt cloth and $200 to step up to Super Aramith Pro balls. Looking around on the internet, it seems I can order in Basalt for an 8' table for around $160, and I can find the Aramith Pros all over the place for around $180. He had to have SOME cost in his base package already, so I think he might be a hundred to two hundred high right now. I might just ask him to take off the balls and cloth, and order those in myself. But if he doesn't "drop" his table price very much to reflect the fact that he's not supplying the cloth and balls, I won't be saving that much anyway. I don't want to get him all worked up over it...need him to do a quality install for me:) Maybe I just bite the bullet and let him have the business anyway. What do you guys think?

Rod
 
Cloth

I like the Championship Mercury Ultra cloth, and all the rooms here had it on their bar tables for awhile. Now, they are putting Simonis on bar tables, and that just makes it much easier, IMO. Much easier breaking with Simonis, more runouts.
 
sker said:
$200 to step up to Super Aramith Pro balls. Looking around on the internet, ... and I can find the Aramith Pros all over the place for around $180.
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You'll pay more in a brick and mortar store for anything.
$180 for Super Pros on the web? Don't know where you're looking. Heck, we sell em for $149. Keep searching for better prices.

If you don't know what the dealers basic "package" is why not ask. Typically it will be inexpensive cloth like Mali and a polyester set of balls along with a few cheap cues, some racks, cue chalk and a vinyl table cover. All told less than $100 dealer cost for a "basic play package".

While you're at it what about delivery and installation - free?
 
Dartman said:
The Premiers are an excellent ball set but there are differences and you get what you pay for.
You can read about the tech specs between Premiers, Premiums and Super Pros here > Saluc/Aramith

ooops, my ball set are the premiums, not the premiers. thanks again for your reply though. I think the shop gave me that set because I spent a certain amount with them. A buddy also purchased a Playmaster (a bit lower price than mine), and his came with the Premier set (he also didn't upgrade cloth; stuck with the Mali)....

As I said before, I think I ended up with a very nice playing set-up for a VERY nice price. Now, if only I could learn to spend less on all my golf $hit! :)
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Not much difference between the Premier and Premium set, resin is different and about a $10 difference in price. Either set is a good choice as a better quality ball set.
 
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