[HELP] Northern Rubber rails Cue Ball hops/jumps off the rail. WHY. [HELP]

Hustlin-Felice

Hustlin-Felice

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi.

Around 5 months ago I bought a brand new table: Dynamic III 9ft with Northern Rubber rails.

A two weeks ago since that time I had first occasion to play on this table. And immediatly I spotted a issue with the rail. In the begining I thought it was just one, but then I took with camera and I notice it was all of them.

Sometimes it hops/ jumps off the rail in 2cm sometimes 20cm.

I checked on which height is nose of the cushion and is 35-37 mm from the bed.
I using Aramith TV Pro 57,2mm balls.

Humidity in room is 52%, Temperature 20 -21 C.

I was shooting without ani spin, without elevation of cue.

I adding to short movies of which I shot in the morning, they are on youtube:

Part1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc5uL1BRxw8

Part2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOGDUOg6ovs

So my question are:
1. What is the reason for it ?
2. Is this a foult of Dynamic Billiards company, for using Northern Rubber raild for pool table ?

3. How to solve this problem
 
In video#1 at the points :14 and :24 you can see the CB contacting the rails.
It looks to me (if the balls are 57.2 mm) that the rails are lower than 35 mm.

At the speed you're hitting into the rail, if it's low, would make the balls jump.

The rail height should be set about 63% of the ball diameter, or about 36mm.

That's my opinion from what I can detect in the video. It looks like a nice table.
 
Rails

Not sure where is Europe you are located. Dynamic is a good Gold Crown copy, don't know if there are any qualified mechanics to do what needs to be done to fix your problem. There are several to choose from here that can do the work required and make your pockets play better than any table within a hundred miles of yours as well. Good Luck!

In no particular order.
Mark Gregory (Perfectpocketz)
Donny Wessels ( SDBilliards)
Zach Jonas ( Reverend)
 
Ralph Kramden said:
In video#1 at the points :14 and :24 you can see the CB contacting the rails.
It looks to me (if the balls are 57.2 mm) that the rails are lower than 35 mm.

At the speed you're hitting into the rail, if it's low, would make the balls jump.

The rail height should be set about 63% of the ball diameter, or about 36mm.

That's my opinion from what I can detect in the video. It looks like a nice table.
Click to expand...

I measure that, and it showed that it was around 35 / 36 mm in some places.

I could understand that I was hitting to hard so it was jumping off the rail, but like you can see on posted videos, I hiting one rail, it jumps - then in rolling on table - contacting another rail and jumping again - and ...

Even during the game I notice that it was happening with OB when I miss, and hit the rail.
 
My guess is that the cushion nose height is too low. What kind of felt is on your table, it looks really, really fast.
 
When the table manufactures start building the sub-rails thicker than 1 11/16" which sets the back of the cushion height, and even thicker, they have to back down on the bevel of the sub-rails which determines the nose height of the cushions. What happens is that starts changing where the body of the cushion is behind the nose height of the cushions, the thicker the sub-rails the more the down hill they start becoming to get that nose height, making the cushions play like the nose height is to low, when in fact it's the correct nose height...it's just that the cushion is not positioned correctly behind that nose height where it's suppose to be. If the back of the cushions are to high, or to low, you can't get the maximum playability from them because they are out of line so to speak. Shimming the rails up to raise up the nose height won't change how the cushions are mounted in relation to the nose height, meaning that will do nothing to reposition the cushion correctly behind the nose of the cushion, all that does is raise up in incorrectly designed sub-rail to a higher nose height. To correct the problem, the rails have to be redesigned to play correctly;)

Glen
 
realkingcobra said:
When the table manufactures start building the sub-rails thicker than 1 11/16" which sets the back of the cushion height, and even thicker, they have to back down on the bevel of the sub-rails which determines the nose height of the cushions. What happens is that starts changing where the body of the cushion is behind the nose height of the cushions, the thicker the sub-rails the more the down hill they start becoming to get that nose height, making the cushions play like the nose height is to low, when in fact it's the correct nose height...it's just that the cushion is not positioned correctly behind that nose height where it's suppose to be. If the back of the cushions are to high, or to low, you can't get the maximum playability from them because they are out of line so to speak. Shimming the rails up to raise up the nose height won't change how the cushions are mounted in relation to the nose height, meaning that will do nothing to reposition the cushion correctly behind the nose of the cushion, all that does is raise up in incorrectly designed sub-rail to a higher nose height. To correct the problem, the rails have to be redesigned to play correctly;)

Glen
Click to expand...


So what should I do now, while the table is still on warranty ? Who's fault is it the guys who assembled table, or company which built it ?
 
Table

infest said:
I think he's trying to tell you to call the manufacturer. See if they will do anything for you.
Click to expand...
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Call em, I'll bet he's told the same thing that diamond told previous customers that complained about the red labeled rails... Sorry, we're working on it but thanks for the cash'

P.s check the rail bolts to make sure they are in place and snugg.
Rob.M
 
Last edited:
dontlitethat said:
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Call em, I'll bet he's told the same thing that diamond told previous customers that complained about the read labeled rails... Sorry, we're working on it but thanks for the cash'


Rob.M
Click to expand...

ummm...a little out of line buddy, Brunswick has the same rail issues with rail thickness...and has for at least the last 30 years...but has failed to do anything about it, and everyone that copies Brunswick rails...end up with the same issues. Diamond was at least open to new ideas from me....but I don't recall any other table manufactures calling my phone to ask me how to make THEIR rails play better, so they keep on producing the same knockoffs as before;)

Glen
 
Table

realkingcobra said:
ummm...a little out of line buddy, Brunswick has the same rail issues with rail thickness...and has for at least the last 30 years...but has failed to do anything about it, and everyone that copies Brunswick rails...end up with the same issues. Diamond was at least open to new ideas from me....but I don't recall any other table manufactures calling my phone to ask me how to make THEIR rails play better, so they keep on producing the same knockoffs as before;)

Glen
Click to expand...
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I'm not trying to be out-of-line, I'm only posting my opinion. You backed up diamond when they said they would not fix the old rails of the red labels. Why are you suggesting he call the manufacture? For them to fix them? Or just make them sure of the problem?
I'm no rail genie but I don't believe brunswick used k66 for pocket billiards, snooker maybe. Brunswick K55 has a pinching problem and k66 has a kicking problem.
The Brits in Europe surely figured out the snooker and 3C tables rails. Perhaps they'll figure out k55 plays well for pocket billiards with 2-1/4" balls.

No hard feelings.

Rob.M
 
realkingcobra said:
ummm...a little out of line buddy, Brunswick has the same rail issues with rail thickness...and has for at least the last 30 years...but has failed to do anything about it, and everyone that copies Brunswick rails...end up with the same issues. Diamond was at least open to new ideas from me....but I don't recall any other table manufactures calling my phone to ask me how to make THEIR rails play better, so they keep on producing the same knockoffs as before;)

Glen
Click to expand...

Glen....I think your misleading people.....don't you?
First off.....Brunswick has no problems with the tables backing short or springing off the rails.
I've said this time and again....the specs were off on the diamond red labels....now the specs on the blue label tables are for the most part the same as the Brunswick specs....in which Brunswick had it right all along.

Now.....is Greg to say....hey everyone...I made a change for the better on my diamond tables.....and everyone can have free rail work???
I surly wouldn't think so....and he shouldn't.
That's how the red labels played....and no one said anything...in fact they loved the way diamonds played. Making changes is part of the manufacture's concern for a better product.....and that's what Greg is always trying to do.
I really think Greg's fighting and up hill battle with the Artemis cushions.
Does Greg want the best table on the market today.....100 percent.

But...it's hard for him to make changes and everyone jump on his ass about a diamond sold 10 years ago.....sure wish I could complain about a lot of shit I have that's 10 years old....and wish someone would say...we'll let me give you a new one....don't work that way.

Ya want new....buy new.....or get someone to fix your old.
I have gotten calls about how to on rails from Brunswick and Diamomd.

Is there a perfect table out there?????
Maybe.....I just haven't run into it yet.
I haven't looked a the video on the guys table that started this thread....but I'm sure he didn't buy the table that way....lots of reason the balls hop off the rails.

Different people like different tables.....don't make one better than the other....just makes the guy that owns that table think his owns the best.

Mark Gregory
 
My impression based on the videos is the OP is hitting balls way too hard.
Hitting like that I'd like to think even a perfect rail would give some similar results.
JMO
 
Just now watched the video......for sure the cushions look low....but we 1 GC 4 in our poolroom and the table did the same thing.
The thickness of the rails are thicker than the 1 3/4 in thickness...the cushion nose is at 1 7/16 which are correct.
But...with the rails being thicker....in order to get the nose of the cushion at proper spec's of 1 7/16 the cushion angle is steeper from the top of the sub rail to the nose height.
Looks like a Brunswick or Brunswick knockoff.
That's a totally different problem then any Diamond has ever had.....the rail height looks to wrong.

Take a ruler and measure the thickness of the ruler...then lay the ruler flat on the slate beside the corner pocket....then measure the height of the rail where the rail cloth meets the Formica. Add the thickness of the ruler to the measurement from the ruler to the top of the Formica......more than likely the measurement will be thicker than the 1 3/4 it should be.

Let us know....then we can go from there.

Mark Gregory
 
perfectpocketz said:
Glen....I think your misleading people.....don't you?
First off.....Brunswick has no problems with the tables backing short or springing off the rails.
I've said this time and again....the specs were off on the diamond red labels....now the specs on the blue label tables are for the most part the same as the Brunswick specs....in which Brunswick had it right all along.

Now.....is Greg to say....hey everyone...I made a change for the better on my diamond tables.....and everyone can have free rail work???
I surly wouldn't think so....and he shouldn't.
That's how the red labels played....and no one said anything...in fact they loved the way diamonds played. Making changes is part of the manufacture's concern for a better product.....and that's what Greg is always trying to do.
I really think Greg's fighting and up hill battle with the Artemis cushions.
Does Greg want the best table on the market today.....100 percent.

But...it's hard for him to make changes and everyone jump on his ass about a diamond sold 10 years ago.....sure wish I could complain about a lot of shit I have that's 10 years old....and wish someone would say...we'll let me give you a new one....don't work that way.

Ya want new....buy new.....or get someone to fix your old.
I have gotten calls about how to on rails from Brunswick and Diamomd.

Is there a perfect table out there?????
Maybe.....I just haven't run into it yet.
I haven't looked a the video on the guys table that started this thread....but I'm sure he didn't buy the table that way....lots of reason the balls hop off the rails.

Different people like different tables.....don't make one better than the other....just makes the guy that owns that table think his owns the best.

Mark Gregory
Click to expand...

Whats wrong with the Artemis cushions? (I am not being defensive in the least, just looking for answers/opinions) They match the K55 & k66 profiles dont they? I used to think the Diamonds played real fast or even springy, but the more I play on them it seems like slow and medium shots play similar speed to a nice well maintained Valley. The big difference is the medium to hard shots where it seems like the Diamonds do not lose speed like other tables. A Valley for instance always seems to thump loudy on a hard bank or kick and lose a lot of speed on rebound but not a Diamond. My Gold Crown seems to play similar to the Diamond that way with the Artemis cushions on it now.
 
dontlitethat said:
You backed up diamond when they said they would not fix the old rails of the red labels.
Click to expand...

No table manufacture is going to go back 25 years and redesign 1,000's of sets of rails to play like the newest tables built, and stay in business;) Changes get made all the time, in many industries, not just this one....auto industry comes to mind when I think about this;)
 
perfectpocketz said:
Just now watched the video......for sure the cushions look low....but we 1 GC 4 in our poolroom and the table did the same thing.
The thickness of the rails are thicker than the 1 3/4 in thickness...the cushion nose is at 1 7/16 which are correct.
But...with the rails being thicker....in order to get the nose of the cushion at proper spec's of 1 7/16 the cushion angle is steeper from the top of the sub rail to the nose height.
Looks like a Brunswick or Brunswick knockoff.
That's a totally different problem then any Diamond has ever had.....the rail height looks to wrong.

Take a ruler and measure the thickness of the ruler...then lay the ruler flat on the slate beside the corner pocket....then measure the height of the rail where the rail cloth meets the Formica. Add the thickness of the ruler to the measurement from the ruler to the top of the Formica......more than likely the measurement will be thicker than the 1 3/4 it should be.

Let us know....then we can go from there.

Mark Gregory
Click to expand...

Second and third rail banks are hopping...that's what's wrong, not how hard the first bank shot was, and that's only going to be caused by one problem if the nose height is correct...and it is;)

And if Diamond copied Brunswick's sub-rails, then you would't have changed the sub-rail design on the GC5 you have....from the factory spec's....so it would play better, right?
 
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