Younger player would be a C+, and the older gentlemen would be a B where I play. As far as APA ratings are concerned, I would guess SL3 and SL5, respectively.
Help with Pool Experiment / Part 2
- Thread starter David Marcus
- Start date
I already did it once, a year and a half ago. I'm kinda hoping that I start to get in a consistent groove and have something better to show, sometime this year.
Most any smartphone will do it, enough for the purpose of the exercise.
wish i hadd known that dub. my g/f said she could do it with her i pad. me .. i am dummy when it comes to this kinda stuff.
as you know ...all us league players have good nights and bad nights.
to night was one of those nights i woulda been proud to show a video of my playing.
as i have stated on here before about once every 5 weeks we go from the bar tables to the 9's. well tonight we were on the 9's.
i faced another 5 in 8 ball and the 1st rack you woulda thought i was a d player. after that i come alive . i was running out from everywhere. making cuts, kicks , banks and even full cue jumps. my opponent played 8 safes and not once did i give ball in hand.
i won 4-1. next week i will probably play like a 3 the whole night lol. i just cant stay consistent .
forgot to post this in the above post.
a friend of mine was playing on the tables beside me tonight.after we were through with our matches he came over and commented on my jumping ability. he and several others stated they never saw any jumping in apa but knew it was legal with a full cue.
he asked me to show him how to jump. i told him i was the wrong person to ask because i was not very experienced at it. he said i was the right person to ask because i am the only one in the league who does jump.
well i showed him how i do it and he tried it with his cue about 10 times and never could do it. i told him to try my cue. he made it on the 3rd try. after that he never missed again. he is a s/l 6. next thing you know i got 3 more guys coming over and i had to show them.
no one could do it with their cues but they got to where they could with mine. i think all of them are gonna be buying a cue like mine .
what did i start here ? all these guys are gonna be using what i taught them against me when we match up.
a friend of mine was playing on the tables beside me tonight.after we were through with our matches he came over and commented on my jumping ability. he and several others stated they never saw any jumping in apa but knew it was legal with a full cue.
he asked me to show him how to jump. i told him i was the wrong person to ask because i was not very experienced at it. he said i was the right person to ask because i am the only one in the league who does jump.
well i showed him how i do it and he tried it with his cue about 10 times and never could do it. i told him to try my cue. he made it on the 3rd try. after that he never missed again. he is a s/l 6. next thing you know i got 3 more guys coming over and i had to show them.
no one could do it with their cues but they got to where they could with mine. i think all of them are gonna be buying a cue like mine .
what did i start here ? all these guys are gonna be using what i taught them against me when we match up.
I'm beginning to think these are less an "experiment" and more "how do I rate" videos. With that said, I do appreciate the premise and I do appreciate seeing a video of actual competition. I watched the entire video this time because it felt far more genuine than the first.
Both you and Matt suffer from the same problem many lower level players do. You think this game is about pocketing balls. Neither of you possess an understanding of the game, the cue ball control, nor the shot making ability to be considered higher than a C+, IMHO. I think if you were having a great day, Dave, you might just creep up to B-. You demonstrate some shot making knowledge and a rudimentary understanding of where the cue ball is going. However, whether by lack of ability or knowledge, you often don't seem able to make it go where it should. Around here I'd call you a C to C+.
Matt, on the other hand, I'd call a C-, period. I couldn't imagine him creeping up to C, much less C+, but I hesitate to call him a D+ based on what I saw. I imagine there are days he could probably drop into the D range and perhaps the rare occasion he'd play like a C.
For reference:
Dave: C to C+, APA - very strong SL4 to mid 5, TAP - mid to strong 4 maybe up to a weak 5
Matt: D+ to C, APA - strong SL3 to mid 4, TAP - 3
Obviously this is my opinion, of course, I like to think I'm pretty close. ChicagoJoe and I play in the same area, I'll ask him to watch and offer his opinion. If he clocks them fairly similarly it's a good bet we're right on for this area at least compared to players who aren't sandbagging.
Hope the info helps. I'm interested in any results you come up with. Let us know.
Both you and Matt suffer from the same problem many lower level players do. You think this game is about pocketing balls. Neither of you possess an understanding of the game, the cue ball control, nor the shot making ability to be considered higher than a C+, IMHO. I think if you were having a great day, Dave, you might just creep up to B-. You demonstrate some shot making knowledge and a rudimentary understanding of where the cue ball is going. However, whether by lack of ability or knowledge, you often don't seem able to make it go where it should. Around here I'd call you a C to C+.
Matt, on the other hand, I'd call a C-, period. I couldn't imagine him creeping up to C, much less C+, but I hesitate to call him a D+ based on what I saw. I imagine there are days he could probably drop into the D range and perhaps the rare occasion he'd play like a C.
For reference:
Dave: C to C+, APA - very strong SL4 to mid 5, TAP - mid to strong 4 maybe up to a weak 5
Matt: D+ to C, APA - strong SL3 to mid 4, TAP - 3
Obviously this is my opinion, of course, I like to think I'm pretty close. ChicagoJoe and I play in the same area, I'll ask him to watch and offer his opinion. If he clocks them fairly similarly it's a good bet we're right on for this area at least compared to players who aren't sandbagging.
Hope the info helps. I'm interested in any results you come up with. Let us know.
From what i saw .... older guy is a C+ , kid is a C.
O.g. may have played as a decent B at one time and does have "experience" , but has peaked out years ago .
Kid has yet to reach his peak, needs more xp.
apa 6s on a BBOX. in my area.
O.g. may have played as a decent B at one time and does have "experience" , but has peaked out years ago .
Kid has yet to reach his peak, needs more xp.
apa 6s on a BBOX. in my area.
Pretty spot on for our area. Younger guy might bounce around from 3-4 and the older guy might bounce around from 4-5 in APA or TAP.
For an APA 3 to be a C+ and an APA 5 to be a B they'd both have to be MONSTERS at those skill levels around here, and we play in a fairly strong area.
I'm not arguing with your assessment, as I obviously don't know any players in your area, just mentioning it in the interest of the comparisons Dave is trying to make.
Thanks for chiming in, sir.
Banks
Banned
6's? Wow. Ya'all need to step it up out there!
Agreed. Not a chance.
Banks
Banned
When I first got on AZB, I thought I was getting good. After a while, I started to think I suck. Now, I'm getting to think I'm not that bad. Another couple years and I'll be a world-beater like the rest of them! :thumbup:
Younger guy - APA 4, TAP 3
Older gent - APA 5, TAP 4
Both shoot too hard. Terrible safety play by both. Both made a few quality shots here and there, but position was erratic (at best).. Shot selection at times had me scratching my head...
Around here they would both be 'C' level players...
Thanks for putting yourself out out there... :thumbup:
Rain-Man
Older gent - APA 5, TAP 4
Both shoot too hard. Terrible safety play by both. Both made a few quality shots here and there, but position was erratic (at best).. Shot selection at times had me scratching my head...
Around here they would both be 'C' level players...
Thanks for putting yourself out out there... :thumbup:
Rain-Man
6's ? wow !!
you must play in the same league that a guy i met in vegas does lol. he said he has been an apa captain for 19 years and had never seen a 5 like me. he said most 7's in his area could not play at my level.
granted they may play better on bar boxes but i just don't see them being 6's.
gotta tell you what happened last night.
we play on bar boxes 80% of the time. we rotate to 9's twice a session. last night was our turn on the 9's.
i threw out my g/f's 18 year old son who joined our team last session. he has played less than 30 racks his entire life and won only 1 match last session. he is a 2.
they threw a 5. now this 5 is kinda inconsistent like me. he also plays napa and 2 in house leagues every week on the 9's.
now logic says a 5 who plays 4 nights a week with 2 of those nights being on 9's in a league that he has played on for at least 3 years oughta walk all over a 2 who has never played on a 9' in his life.
well i guess that 5 had one of those bad nights we all have from time to time and ...lost . unbelievable to me.
what i am getting at is both of those guys in the video coulda been having bad nights but i still don;t think they would play like a 6 on a good night...bar table or not.
Well I may lean towards OG as a 6 and kids a 5 if a 7 was a true B- or better player on a 9 ft. (ill add im using APA 8ball as my scale since its the most common )but in my area when I did play bar leagues I remember playing at this speed and I was never rated less then a 6 . When i was a true C+ - inconsistent B , I was considered a Good 7 in the APA . I shot at everything , made more then i missed . wtf .......its a bar table .
But I know that theres more differences in true skill level in the 7sl alone then the first 3 combined.
Alot of our "home town bar " 7s dont even know theres a whole world of next lvl players that would have a rating of 8,9 or 10sl to their 7sl if there was no cap and a larger interest of solid B+ - A- A+-players.
Ive played in non apa leagues that were alot more inline with your scale , where as a good C o n a 9' table your floating between 4 and 5.
Ive met APA 7s that thought a 9Foot table had 5 more legs .:slap:,
Ok , now back to our "experiment".
Well I may lean towards OG as a 6 and kids a 5 if a 7 was a true B- or better player on a 9 ft. (ill add im using APA 8ball as my scale since its the most common )but in my area when I did play bar leagues I remember playing at this speed and I was never rated less then a 6 . When i was a true C+ - inconsistent B , I was considered a Good 7 in the APA . I shot at everything , made more then i missed . wtf .......its a bar table .
But I know that theres more differences in true skill level in the 7sl alone then the first 3 combined.
Alot of our "home town bar " 7s dont even know theres a whole world of next lvl players that would have a rating of 8,9 or 10sl to their 7sl if there was no cap and a larger interest of solid B+ - A- A+-players.
Ive played in non apa leagues that were alot more inline with your scale , where as a good C o n a 9' table your floating between 4 and 5.
Ive met APA 7s that thought a 9Foot table had 5 more legs .:slap:,
Ok , now back to our "experiment".
I'm an SL5 on 9's, and I don't see my game go up to SL6 when I'm on the barbox. I don't see these guys games improving that dramatically on the smaller table.
Up here (north of where these guys are playing, even more remote), we don't have barboxes. The only time any of us play on them is if we go to states, to the only room in the state (a couple hours away) that has barboxes. I have not seen any of us, on any of our teams that go (I watch the other teams from my division, too, folks that I know pretty well) have dramatic improvement.
Perhaps the opposite is true, that people who play primarily on the smaller table may struggle more going to the 9'. I just don't see it in reverse.
Well I may lean towards OG as a 6 and kids a 5 if a 7 was a true B- or better player on a 9 ft. (ill add im using APA 8ball as my scale since its the most common )but in my area when I did play bar leagues I remember playing at this speed and I was never rated less then a 6 . When i was a true C+ - inconsistent B , I was considered a Good 7 in the APA . I shot at everything , made more then i missed . wtf .......its a bar table .
But I know that theres more differences in true skill level in the 7sl alone then the first 3 combined.
Alot of our "home town bar " 7s dont even know theres a whole world of next lvl players that would have a rating of 8,9 or 10sl to their 7sl if there was no cap and a larger interest of solid B+ - A- A+-players.
Ive played in non apa leagues that were alot more inline with your scale , where as a good C o n a 9' table your floating between 4 and 5.
Ive met APA 7s that thought a 9Foot table had 5 more legs .:slap:,
Ok , now back to our "experiment".
i see what you are saying. i guess every ones opinion is based on the pool scene in their area.
i think we have a thriving pool scene in our area with a lot of strong players. we have a high number of people who play multiple nights on multiple leagues. we also have quite a few people who play in leagues where they are on bar boxes one night and 9's the next night.
take me for example. i was playing 5 nights a week in 4 leagues. mostly on bar tables but 1 night was a money league on 9's. as i stated earlier one of my apa leagues plays on 9's twice a session.
those 2 guys could possibly be a 6 in your area but here they would never get past a strong 4 based on what i saw in that video.
Yea, its def . a regional thing and consider this. Take 100 ranked/unranked players in one area....another 100 in another....play and rank by APA guidelines.....theres gonna be differences..,,,sometimes major differences... even from division to division in same towns/cities.
Thats even plausable to how some "honest" people have gotten disqualified at "vegas"......the inconsistency in a nationwide ratings system....oh....and an epidemic of sandbagging of course...
Not many league matches are played out on anything bigger then an 8footer around here. The bars keep the leagues and the bar tables........We got 9 footies (and some bar tables for the weak knees) and we get the players...
Thats even plausable to how some "honest" people have gotten disqualified at "vegas"......the inconsistency in a nationwide ratings system....oh....and an epidemic of sandbagging of course...
Not many league matches are played out on anything bigger then an 8footer around here. The bars keep the leagues and the bar tables........We got 9 footies (and some bar tables for the weak knees) and we get the players...
One advantage of the BU Exams and BU Rating System is that the results are independent of league or region.
For those interested, here a chart that compare all of the BU ratings to traditional A-D ratings and league handicapping systems: BU rating comparison chart
Enjoy,
Dave
PS: If any of you want to get an accurate rating, try the BU Exams. And if you do, please consider posting your scores and rating (and videos if available) on the AZB BU rating thread.
i am glad you posted this response.
you bring up some very valid points. there are a lot of variables that determine a persons handicap.
1. accurate score keeping. i can't stress the important this is enough. too many many times i see score keepers not paying attention and not marking safes.
2. how involved your lo is on staying on top of things.
3. level of competition in your area and what size tables.
4. how consistent each person is.the reason i bring this up is because league players have varying degrees of mindset when it comes to playing pool.
a multitude of things can affect your performance from one week to another. things such as a bad day at work, kid sick at home, un expected bill pop up. a whole lot of things can affect your focus on any given night.
take me for example. i have a disability in my shooting hand that based on how my hand feels that particular night affects my performance.if its below 75 in the pool hall i wear an insulated long john shirt under my t shirt to prevent my arm and hand from hurting due to nerve damage. people who 1st meet me ask are'nt you hot ? i say yea but my hand is freezing. i let them touch my hand and they remark it's as cold as an ice cube.
funny thing that when i went to vegas for my 1st time last year my hand felt great. it did not hurt at all due to the hot arrid climate. i played the best i ever played in my life out there. i won my 1st match against another 5 38-4. won my 2nd match against a 5 38-10. the next day is when the captain of the team who i played 2nd remarked i was the best 5 he had ever seen in 19 years of being an apa captain.
regarding sandbagging ...i say yea it goes on but i don't think its as rampant as people on here would lead you to believe. there have been times in my own league i would think to myself ... ain't no way that guy is a 5. well 6 months later i would see that person was raised to a 6.
well back on track ..lets see some more vids and debate what their handicap is.
Lorider , glad to have pleasant debate on here with you, If you ever get a chance to visit the north east coast (philly/jersey) please hit me up and we can enjoy a nice game of pool.
.....and now back to our regularly scheduled program...:thumbup:
.....and now back to our regularly scheduled program...:thumbup: