Help with this shot
- Thread starter kingwang
- Start date
Straight Left
Looks like hard straight left.
Oh and don't forget that I'm never wrong.
Looks like hard straight left.
Oh and don't forget that I'm never wrong.
Looks like a slight jacked up low-right punch shot. Only possible on brand new cloth.
The right spin helps to check the cue off the rail, while the draw arcs it back once it hits that first rail.
The slight angle of the cue (somewhat jacked up) makes the cue ball hop, so that the draw doesn't take hold until after it hits the rail and it's past the blocking balls on the side.
The right spin helps to check the cue off the rail, while the draw arcs it back once it hits that first rail.
The slight angle of the cue (somewhat jacked up) makes the cue ball hop, so that the draw doesn't take hold until after it hits the rail and it's past the blocking balls on the side.
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low left !
Check out their Japanese version website... it shows which part of the CB he is shooting at.
http://www.kamuibrand.com/movie.html
on the last shot (full table length draw shot) the CB is 1-chalk distance away from the rail...
http://www.kamuibrand.com/movie.html
on the last shot (full table length draw shot) the CB is 1-chalk distance away from the rail...
monchiwai said:
If the diagram of the CB's path for shot 8 is accurate, the tip placement shown for that shot (low center) is wrong. It can only be made with low left.
Left is necessary to drive the CB forward off the rail to get it past the blocking balls, then the draw takes over and curves it back uptable.
If I was trying that shot for a video, I'd slick the CB and chalk the rail.
pj
chgo
P.S. But after looking at the video I don't think the diagram is accurate - low center may work for the shot on the video.
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td873 said:
If the diagram of the CB's path for shot 8 is accurate, the CB can't get past the blocking balls without left spin.
pj
chgo
P.S. But after looking at the video I don't think the diagram is accurate - low center may work for the shot on the video.
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kingwang said:
You are not wrong! Excellent observation. :woot: :clapping: :woot:
monchiwai said:
And I think that works for the shot on the video, but it's not the same as the #8 diagram. On the video the CB hits the rail farther forward so that it's natural rebound angle goes past the blocking balls. On the diagram it can't rebound naturally and go past the blocking balls.
pj
chgo
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I disagree and still maintain using only draw will work. I understand your statement, but I believe it is a very common misconception (and promulgation of inaccurate information) and/or a simple case of "forgetting" that the cloth is new. Not just the table bed, but the rails as well. Thus, the ball will also "slide" a bit when it hits a rail, just like it slides on the rest of the table when making contact with a ball. This may give the false appearance of a "little bit of running english." That is, fast cloth (both table and cushions) will play a bit long. Anyone who has experimented a bit on a fast table has seen this manifested on the simple 3 rail shot (with the cue ball) trying to scratch in the corner. You have to aim much shorter for the shot to work - OR you have to shoot with no english.Patrick Johnson said:
Also, your other statements seem to confirm that you neglected/forgot about the rail cushion cloth:
I.e., the "natural" rebound angle on new/fast cloth is actually wider than on worn cloth.
Just my $0.02 (probably worth a little less actually)
-td
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td873 said:
I agree we don't want to promulgate inaccurate information, so...
On fast rail cloth, the CB may seem to rebound "long", but that's only because it's not rebounding "short" as it typically does on slower rail cloth. Unless it has forward spin (which this shot clearly doesn't), the CB will not rebound longer than the natural (geometric) angle even on fast cloth - and in order to get past the blocking balls in the diagram, the CB has to rebound longer than the natural/geometric angle.
I suppose we could define "natural" any number of ways, but if we stick to the meaning that's relevant to the diagram of this shot (geometric) it's more accurate to say that the rebound angle on slow cloth is shorter than natural/geometric - it doesn't get longer than geometric without sidespin or forward spin.
pj
chgo
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rcarson said:
The question was about how the shot can be made, so we're discussing that. If you have something to contribute to that, feel free to begin.
pj
chgo
[edited]Patrick Johnson said:
I recognize that you're trying to help, but can you execute this as you are instructing people to shoot it? It appears that you just informing the masses on hypothetical information. You have made diagrams, promulgated how the shot is executed, and asserted (through assumption) how this shot works. But the proof is in the proverbial pudding. I am not trying to be offensive or antagonistic here, but this shot is difficult to execute, and proper execution is not intuitive (i.e., no english at all). Further, IMO there is credibility in backing up a description of this shot with illustration. Personally, I know where I fall on the "those than can - do, those that can't - teach" line. In sum, I am 100% certain that this shot can and should be shot with no side spin - only straight draw. Ask me how I know.
As for the terms long and short, you tend to argue semantics (i.e., we're not talking long, we're talking not short), but in reality new cloth necessarily plays long because tables play "short" (as you define it) for the majority of their life (i.e., it is the norm). Thus, anything different from normal (i.e., your "short") is long. Regardless of how you slice it, the balls slide on new cloth - even against the rails.
-td
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