Here Is Our Biggest Problem!

[rackmsuckr]

IMHO, that is the problem. When played at the highest level, it is exceedingly boring. After the first shot, everything "looks" easy to your average ball banger. In fact, if your shape is spot on, it is easy! We can appreciate it, not Joe Sixpack.

How many times have I seen the Pros play a safe when confronted with a difficult shot? Almost every time. Hell, they will rarely play a bank shot.
I understand it is the correct strategy, but it is BORING.

What we need are some flashy personalities that will play aggresivley and, I almost hate to say it, show off. Screw that cue ball back 3 rails for shape, show off. Make the cueball dance That is something that might get Joe Sixpack's attention.

Of course, it would never happen. This type of player would not win very often

t

One format that might be good for tv is a no safety tournament. Total shootout. If you MISS, it is ball in hand. We had one here that was a great success. There were actually some safeties, but you had to think ahead of when to give your opponent ball in hand intentionally. Otherwise, everyone was firing in everything - and slop didn't count! We saw some awesome shooting and some creative shots.

 

[OldHasBeen]

I was referring to Buddy's statements about me!

I think you make some good points. But more importantly, I certainly have heard of, even played cards at a table with, Buddy Hall. But I haven't heard the Hustle and Con story.

The poster is two separate full-page newspaper articles (in 1977) about me the first day (The Hustles On) and Louie the next day (He's No Hustler). It was intended to show the differences in types of pool players and the avenues they went down to achieve their goals.
When my son’s friends read the poster - they asked whom this Buddy Hall person was who made the signed comments about me back in the 70's. In other words - they didn't know whom Buddy was - BUT - liked reading about the Hustle & Cons of The Road.
Sorry, if I didn't make it clear.

TY & GL

 

[unknownpro]

The poster is two separate full-page newspaper articles (in 1977) about me the first day (The Hustles On) and Louie the next day (He's No Hustler). It was intended to show the differences in types of pool players and the avenues they went down to achieve their goals.
When my son’s friends read the poster - they asked whom this Buddy Hall person was who made the signed comments about me back in the 70's. In other words - they didn't know whom Buddy was - BUT - liked reading about the Hustle & Cons of The Road.
Sorry, if I didn't make it clear.

TY & GL

So, I'll bite. What did he say?

unkownpro

 

[OldHasBeen]

That sounds Interesting - BUT.............

Good points OHB. But what is the solution? What would make pool more tv friendly? We all know that the current format doesn't work.

I personally feel that money should be front and center during each match. After all, everyone is interested in money. Instead of the normal tournament structure, we need something different. How about having a round-robin like tournament where each player gets a certain amount of starting cash. The matches would have to be short (race to 5?) to keep things moving along. At the beggining of each match the players start at a minimum bid and keep betting it up until one player calls. The match is then played and the winner keeps the money. As soon as a player loses all their money, they are out. The round-robin format continues until there is one winner. With this type of structure, the viewing audience would get to see the woofing before the game and they would be interested in the outcome because of the money involved. Whatcha think?

What I think it is going to take is something that will bring in the average TV viewer in like "Showing The Hole Card" did for POKER.
I don't know what it could be but it has to make the audience feel like they are a part of the action. Maybe like a top hustler in a bar/poolroom playing with other players and the audience has to figure out who the Hustler is.
Hey - I just thought of that and it sounds pretty good.

TY & GL

 

[OldHasBeen]

You Got It!

The problem with pool has absolutely nothing to do with the hustle or con. I've read your posts and respect your opinions,but If you go back 30-40 years all the old time golfers were hustlers Lee Treveno and guys like that that were playing sucker games hitting the ball with a coke bottle. There literally hundreds of scrath golfers out there hustling the local links. Tennis has it' club hustlers. Bobby Riggs pulled of one of the biggest hustles of all time with him vs Billie Jean King.There' millions poured into poker on Tv and all they talk about is the old legends like Doyle Brunson and old stories about all the trouble at the cash games in Texas.
The problem with pool is no strong central organization like the golf has the USGA Tennis has the WTA and So forth and the lack of high dollar sponsorship. The main reason for this is everyone in the pool world wants to treat sponsors as" Marks " and the general deportment of players. No one wants to watch or sponsor a bunch idiots arguing over the rack complaining about table rolls and equipment and being surly to spectators. The reason the WPBA has had some limited success is that the ladies carry themselves much better than the men and have better organization. Until the men start treating it as a business and holding people accountable for there actions nothing will change

The golfers did what they did to make a buck, just like the pool players did back in the 60's, 70's & 80's.
Your correct about the men (their egos) and the women (their orginazational skills) - BUT - even all that won't bring in the average TV viewer. THE WOMEN ARE A LOT EASIER TO WATCH - AND - THEY PLAY GREAT.
I guess the average viewer expects the men to play well but never realized how good the women could be.

TY & GL

 

[Chowboy]

One format that might be good for tv is a no safety tournament. Total shootout. If you MISS, it is ball in hand. We had one here that was a great success. There were actually some safeties, but you had to think ahead of when to give your opponent ball in hand intentionally. Otherwise, everyone was firing in everything - and slop didn't count! We saw some awesome shooting and some creative shots.

You might be on to something. No safeties, miss a shot, ball in hand. The only thing I might change is the I would not give a ball in hand except on a foul. Put the cueball in the kitchen.

Of course, we arel just p****ing in the wind. Nothing will change

 

[OldHasBeen]

Then I guess.........

i disagree. it's BECAUSE of the "hustle" that advertizers stay away. it is part of pool's miserable image.

pool is boring to watch. that's the problem. and the audience would rather watch women bend over than men.

All the sponsors hate the idea of all the POKER hustlers - I DON'T THINK SO!

TY & GL

 

[OldHasBeen]

I also like the SKINS game.

So you think womens pool is so great for TV , I'm getting a little bored with it, only because all I see is Allison Fisher winning all the time the others just don't give her a match they win a game then they sit and take a lesson WTF give me a game , I know some of these girls are really good players and they just seem to lay back , dump the game if you will, if you think that is good pool for TV your misstaking, to me it's only someone that watches these matches once in awhile that would believe any of that bullshit that Alison Fisher can beat these other women that easilly "IMO"

what I do believe is that if your not brought up playing pool then you'll probably have no interest in it to watch at all , "IMO"

now what I did really enjoyed on TV was the skins games but I really didn't understand the money periment and was confussed by it, but I did like the fact when a player missed he had to go back to his seat where all the others where sitting and sit next to them to see there opion of his run on there faces
steven

But as you said - It was hard to understand the $ for the average guy. Oh, and I've seen Allison play (in person) and SHE IS REALLY THAT GOOD.
They (my son & his friends) had brought me in to challenge her thinking I would have the NUTS.
I watched her play for over an hour and said - You boys would be in for a rude awakening - If you think I could jump up and beat her - YOUR NUTS!

TY & GL

Even if I did think I could have won - I wouldn't. She was there doing a great job and being very entertaining. Who am I to try to show her up and stick my big ass into her business.

 

[OldHasBeen]

Your right - BUT......

OHB, Unfortunately the same thing would have happened if your son's friends were all APA members. In other words, people familiar with the game.

People just do not realize just how really good the pros - or people like you - really are.

Out of the 250,000 people who play in the APA a large majority of the 9-ball players actually think they would have a chance against a pro. The truth of the matter is that not one of them, even the SL 9's, would have a chance against a pro. It would be a laffer. Expecially if they played winner breaks.

I guess that is why it is not a great spectator sport - it looks too easy when the pros play.

AT LEAST WITH THE APA - THEY ARE INVOLVED! THAT'S THE KEY.

TY 7 GL

 

[OldHasBeen]

I agree and like Fatty said........

Tom,
You make an excellent point. I have been saying for many years that we need to present pool as it is - present the truth. We keep trying to gold plate this tird and sell it like its gold, but we're not fooling anybody. Present it in its truest form, which means the action must be involved. Pool is boring on Tv, but show up to any big money game and there is just as much action away from the tables as there is at the tables. We keep trying to dress this thing up, and with more money coming in with IPT, that means more money will be changing hands. Tournaments are boring. I would love to see pool displayed on TV where one player can call out another player. Let the backers talk trash, show the bookie in action as he makes his rounds, let them woof it out and then have them battle it out. Uncensored. That's pool.

"Puting a tuxedo on a Pool Player - Is like puting whipped cream on a hotdog"!

TY & GL

 

[OldHasBeen]

Let me take a guess..........

They would have to do it in another country where all of this stuff is legal.

As far as hustles and cons go some people like this type of thing but I have never enjoyed low-life con man tactics.

Wayne

You sound like a victum. Maybe we have run into each other way back when.

TY & GL

 

[OldHasBeen]

Hey - I'm all for it........

Maybe you should all wait and see just what Kevin and Mike have planned.

Afterall, he has made two gigantic changes that we are aware of. 1) The game is now 8-ball which I really think will be more attractive to the average player. and 2) The players compete for a grand championship match against the King of the Hill - Mike Sigel.

Everything I have seen about it so far - sounds great & I hope it works out.

TY & GL

 

[OldHasBeen]

Just a little sugestion..........

it IS a problem if it can't sell to advertizers. and it's not the bad guy image i'm talking about. it is pool's broad image as a dark sullen cellar of a place where slimy happenings occur, where nere-do-wells spend all their day, where people never see the light of day, and a place to generally waste your time/life.

but the image ultimately means nothing....as i said, pool is a boring game to watch.

Find a new pool room!

TY & GL

 

[OldHasBeen]

You have made some good points - BUT.......

IMHO, that is the problem. When played at the highest level, it is exceedingly boring. After the first shot, everything "looks" easy to your average ball banger. In fact, if your shape is spot on, it is easy! We can appreciate it, not Joe Sixpack.

How many times have I seen the Pros play a safe when confronted with a difficult shot? Almost every time. Hell, they will rarely play a bank shot.
I understand it is the correct strategy, but it is BORING.

What we need are some flashy personalities that will play aggresivley and, I almost hate to say it, show off. Screw that cue ball back 3 rails for shape, show off. Make the cueball dance That is something that might get Joe Sixpack's attention.

Of course, it would never happen. This type of player would not win very often

t

ST. LOUIE, LOUIE PASTED AWAY IN 1991.
I've seen Louie playing for big Ca$h at a tournament in Dayton, OH - while the finals were going on. Ther was four times the amount of spetators watching Louie play than watching the tournament match.

TY & GL

 

[wayne]

You sound like a victum. Maybe we have run into each other way back when.

TY & GL

"victum" is that latin for victor. Only played a con man once and it wasn't you.

Wayne

 

[OldHasBeen]

I should tell you to Buy The Poster - BUT.. this is AZ.

So, I'll bite. What did he say?

unkownpro

Buddy Said in 2004;
"It is amazing how many players Tom defeated and never got a reputation".
Tom was The Real Deal; He was All About The HUSTLE & THE CASH"!
"I'll never forget that 1st Road Trip"!
Signed - Buddy Hall
The reason Buddy endorsed the poster is because Everyone knows of St. Louie, Louie - BUT - No one really ever heard that much about me - That was the whole idea and truthfully, I never played as well as Louie OR Buddy - But then again, I never had to.

Buddy & I got to know each other at Johnston City when we both were about 19. I went through Paducah on my way to the Carolinas and Buddy & I teamed up to "Hit The Road". It was the first REAL Road Trip for Buddy as far as just setting out in a general direction with no real plans. Just go where the action takes you. This (in my opinion is when Buddy SNAPPED. He beat One-Eyed Tony on a bar box in Tulsa and never looked back.

TY & GL

 

[OldHasBeen]

Victum

"victum" is that latin for victor. Only played a con man once and it wasn't you.

Wayne

The word - Victum is actually taken from two words - VICtim & ScroTUM.

Sounds like once was enough!

TY & GL

 

[lewdo26]

I don't know what gets sponsors' approval in terms of organization... But as far as Joe Public is concerned there are five things: breasts/ass; violence; fast and/or bizarre stuff; cheesy sentimentality; and money. Fickle, fickle, fickle...

But even if you throw money and 8 ball in there, the jury is still out... It might be that pool is simply too cerebral to a day-and-age where the average TV viewer's IQ is below 60.

Poker is luck, tennis is fast, and golf/bowling are as uni-dimensional as it could be. So those sports have a better chance.

The IPT seems like pool's best chance yet, but I agree with OHB... The idea that a sanitized pool world would bring more viewers is as naive as it gets.

The WPBA didn't get on ESPN because of some clean image. It got there because people are fascinated with the bizarre idea that these cuties can actually play pool! Check out the local tavern and you'll see how strange that idea actually is to someone who hasn't been more broadly exposed.

 

[Rude Dog]

The word - Victum is actually taken from two words - VICtim & ScroTUM.

Sounds like once was enough!

TY & GL

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

[cuetechasaurus]

My son was having a friendly (cheap) poker game in our family room last night with about 8 or 9 guys & gals. All were college age and the biggest target market for sponsors.
I was sitting at the kitchen table and switched the TV to a pool match.
After a couple of minutes one of them asked "What happened to the ping-pong match they had been watching"?
My son and a couple of his friends know who & what I am and told them I played pool.
I said – “lets take a vote”.
All of them (including my son) wanted to switch back to the ping-pong match.
I asked - How many of them played ping-pong?
Not one of them had ever played more than a couple of games.
I switched the channel and - you know what - even I found it to be more entertaining.

IMHO - IF POOL IS EVER GOING TO MAKE IT AS A VIABLE ENTITY THAT WILL ATTRACT MAJOR SPONSERS & $ - IT HAD BETTER START SELLING THE "COLOR" & "HUSTLE"!

Why would I say that? Because my son showed them the St. Louie, Louie-OHB Poster hanging on the wall and almost all of them took the time to read all the small print and comment on how neat it was. In other words, They all enjoyed reading about the Hustle and Con but none of them (except my son) ever even heard of Buddy Hall.
The women are the only players who can attract a decent audience and rightfully so. They have paid their dues and figured out how to market their league and work together for the common good.
The men never will (or never have) unless they get a guarantee of some kind of fame or fortune.
The average "JOE" has no knowledge or concern about what skill it takes to do what we do. All of these kids play pool a couple of times a week and enjoy their games and beers at a local bowling alley - But NONE of them wanted to watch the pros play. They couldn't relate. All they play is 8-Ball - but even if 8-Ball was on TV (with all the safeties & defensive strategies) I don't think they would be interested in it.

It seems that only pool enthusiasts or players will watch TV pool. And that number will never attract the $ we deserve.

(JMHO) - TY & GL

I have been reading here for like 1 year and I registered from a few days ago, I have read you talking about and shownig the pictures of your poster with Louey for at least 50 times. is that all you think about and talk about? can you make a post and not talk about your 5 minutes of fame? and why do you keep talking in 3rd person from it? Just say Louey and me, not oldhasbeen, more like neverhasbeen lol.