Here's the other problem about the prize money

[stevelomako]

O.K., here's more bad news on the IPT front...in addition to waiting on checks....this is another BIG reason people are pissed.


The prize money stated up until the players meeting was as followed:

STATED PAY-OUTS....................................ACTUAL PAY-OUTS

121st-200th.....5,000...............................All at 5,000

61st-120th.......7,000.............<2,000........5,053 to 8,947

37th-60th........15,000............<6,000........9,020 to 20,980

19th-36th........25,000............<3,500........21,496 to 28,502

7th-18th..........36,000............<6,000.......30,005 to 41,995

6th.................N/A....................................50,000
5th.................N/A....................................66,000
4th.................N/A....................................80,000
3rd.................N/A....................................92,000
2nd.................N/A...................................150,000
1st.................500,00.................................500,000


If you "qualified" or were on "Tour" and banked on getting the minimum pay-out stated all along and then at the players meeting you were told it changed and you were going to receive alot less than you expected you might be upset.

If you earned more than what was stated you'd be happy..........but about 60 players learned they were getting less (up to 6,000 less) than they expected and what was stated for months.


Don't be suprised about any lawsuits or injuctions brought on by financial backers, qualifier entrants or tour card holders. You can't blame anyone if they do but it would stink for the IPT if it started coming to that.


It sucks because they are putting everything in jeopardy because of a bunch of drop-of-the-hat decisions without much afterthought.

Is it better to just take what they give (if they give it) and move on and not be involved with them or what? I really don't know right now.

 

[ironman]

O.K., here's more bad news on the IPT front...in addition to waiting on checks....this is another BIG reason people are pissed.


The prize money stated up until the players meeting was as followed:

STATED PAY-OUTS....................................ACTUAL PAY-OUTS

121st-200th.....5,000...............................All at 5,000

61st-120th.......7,000.............<2,000........5,053 to 8,947

37th-60th........15,000............<6,000........9,020 to 20,980

19th-36th........25,000............<3,500........21,496 to 28,502

7th-18th..........36,000............<6,000.......30,005 to 41,995

6th.................N/A....................................50,000
5th.................N/A....................................66,000
4th.................N/A....................................80,000
3rd.................N/A....................................92,000
2nd.................N/A...................................150,000
1st.................500,00.................................500,000


If you "qualified" or were on "Tour" and banked on getting the minimum pay-out stated all along and then at the players meeting you were told it changed and you were going to receive alot less than you expected you might be upset.

If you earned more than what was stated you'd be happy..........but about 60 players learned they were getting less (up to 6,000 less) than they expected and what was stated for months.


Don't be suprised about any lawsuits or injuctions brought on by financial backers, qualifier entrants or tour card holders. You can't blame anyone if they do but it would stink for the IPT if it started coming to that.


It sucks because they are putting everything in jeopardy because of a bunch of drop-of-the-hat decisions without much afterthought.

Is it better to just take what they give (if they give it) and move on and not be involved with them or what? I really don't know right now.

And the hits just keep on coming!!!!

 

[Cameron Smith]

In the Billiards Digest article it mentions Trudeau was going to change the payout structure for the Reno tournament. It was based on winning percentage.

I thought it was a very good idea.

 

[Marvel]

O.K., here's more bad news on the IPT front...in addition to waiting on checks....this is another BIG reason people are pissed.


The prize money stated up until the players meeting was as followed:

STATED PAY-OUTS....................................ACTUAL PAY-OUTS

121st-200th.....5,000...............................All at 5,000

61st-120th.......7,000.............<2,000........5,053 to 8,947

37th-60th........15,000............<6,000........9,020 to 20,980

19th-36th........25,000............<3,500........21,496 to 28,502

7th-18th..........36,000............<6,000.......30,005 to 41,995

6th.................N/A....................................50,000
5th.................N/A....................................66,000
4th.................N/A....................................80,000
3rd.................N/A....................................92,000
2nd.................N/A...................................150,000
1st.................500,00.................................500,000


If you "qualified" or were on "Tour" and banked on getting the minimum pay-out stated all along and then at the players meeting you were told it changed and you were going to receive alot less than you expected you might be upset.

If you earned more than what was stated you'd be happy..........but about 60 players learned they were getting less (up to 6,000 less) than they expected and what was stated for months.


Don't be suprised about any lawsuits or injuctions brought on by financial backers, qualifier entrants or tour card holders. You can't blame anyone if they do but it would stink for the IPT if it started coming to that.


It sucks because they are putting everything in jeopardy because of a bunch of drop-of-the-hat decisions without much afterthought.

Is it better to just take what they give (if they give it) and move on and not be involved with them or what? I really don't know right now.

Huh.

You people really are bit dum.

This new system is by far better than the original, and it was in BD, but also clearly announced in the players meeting. The prize money was the same, only the distribution changed -> to a much better and fair way. Every first round looser got the promised 5000$, and the rest had to fight for extra bucks and all the racks were important. The better players were favoured, like in all the sports.


Come on guys, you really know how to be ridiculous.

 

[jsp]

You people really are bit dum.

LOL...the ironing is delicious.

If you "qualified" or were on "Tour" and banked on getting the minimum pay-out stated all along and then at the players meeting you were told it changed and you were going to receive alot less than you expected you might be upset.

As Marvel stated, you were still guaranteed the minimum prize money of $5k if you get knocked out of the first round.
This is why they didn't change the prize distribution for players eliminated in the first round. The graduated paying system only takes place for subsequent rounds.

Other than you, I don't know anyone else who thinks this was a bad idea.

 

[memikey]

.....If you "qualified" or were on "Tour" and banked on getting the minimum pay-out stated all along and then at the players meeting you were told it changed and you were going to receive alot less than you expected you might be upset......

If card holders are prepared to accept without so much as a whimper the sudden cancellation of one out of only two members only 2006 money list qualifying events and the disappearance of the complete intended and published prize fund of well over US$ 1 Million for the said cancelled tournament,they are hardly likely to show much emotion over the simple redistribution of another tournaments prize fund into different sized units which still total the same prize fund

 

[Riggers]

This payout distribution just makes win% even more important so will go some way to alleviate the inevitable match fixing that goes on between players from the same country trying to help each other qualify.

 

[Eieio59]

If card holders are prepared to accept without so much as a whimper the sudden cancellation of one out of only two members only 2006 money list qualifying events and the disappearance of the complete intended and published prize fund of well over US$ 1 Million for the said cancelled tournament,they are hardly likely to show much emotion over the simple redistribution of another tournaments prize fund into different sized units which still total the same prize fund

The prize money from the cancelled event has not entirely "disappeared". KT's promise of tour players earning $13K this year is still in place. For those players who, after the Chicago event, have not earned their $13K, will receive a check for the difference. I don't think anyone (in the U.S) objected too much due to the fact that if we would have had the event in Britain we would have had a couple of thousand in expenses as well as having to deal with the actual flight and threats associated with flying overseas. Don't forget about the other expenses and trials such as passports also. There were a few players with passport issues also.

All in all, the players weren't too terribly upset about the cancellation of the event. Yes, we would have loved the opportunity of the second tour player only tournament and it would have greatly increased several players chances of making the top 100, but here's the deal:

You and others complain and complain about the IPT and want desperately to see it fail. The players that are on the tour (for the most part) want desperately to see it be a success. Therefore, we are quite a bit more tolerant of ANY changes that KT and staff need to make. We understand that things are not perfect and will have to be changed. We understand that everything that he says may not be written in stone. But we will accept change and do so without (too much) questioning because we want this to be a success. Don't talk down to us because of our dreams of having a successful tour. Don't *pee* in our Wheaties, please. We aren't totally ignorant and do realize that all is not kosher at this time. When you start hearing from the players (who are the ones at this point with something to lose), then feel free to tell us how we should have been more upset because you knew it was going to fail........ til then, I really don't see the point to all of this endless chatter regarding KT, MS, DA or the IPT. Let's act like adults who want to support our sport and want to see this tour be a success, not only for us, but for all of the players worldwide - today AND, especially, TOMORROW!

Tammie Jones

 

[macguy]

The prize money from the cancelled event has not entirely "disappeared". KT's promise of tour players earning $13K this year is still in place. For those players who, after the Chicago event, have not earned their $13K, will receive a check for the difference. I don't think anyone (in the U.S) objected too much due to the fact that if we would have had the event in Britain we would have had a couple of thousand in expenses as well as having to deal with the actual flight and threats associated with flying overseas. Don't forget about the other expenses and trials such as passports also. There were a few players with passport issues also.

All in all, the players weren't too terribly upset about the cancellation of the event. Yes, we would have loved the opportunity of the second tour player only tournament and it would have greatly increased several players chances of making the top 100, but here's the deal:

You and others complain and complain about the IPT and want desperately to see it fail. The players that are on the tour (for the most part) want desperately to see it be a success. Therefore, we are quite a bit more tolerant of ANY changes that KT and staff need to make. We understand that things are not perfect and will have to be changed. We understand that everything that he says may not be written in stone. But we will accept change and do so without (too much) questioning because we want this to be a success. Don't talk down to us because of our dreams of having a successful tour. Don't *pee* in our Wheaties, please. We aren't totally ignorant and do realize that all is not kosher at this time. When you start hearing from the players (who are the ones at this point with something to lose), then feel free to tell us how we should have been more upset because you knew it was going to fail........ til then, I really don't see the point to all of this endless chatter regarding KT, MS, DA or the IPT. Let's act like adults who want to support our sport and want to see this tour be a success, not only for us, but for all of the players worldwide - today AND, especially, TOMORROW!

Tammie Jones

I understand exactly but addressing specific issues is important. Much of what is said here could never be said by the players themselves, they are too job scared but it needs to be said. Whether they admit it or not they read these boards and I feel some of the changes that have taken place are due to public critiquing. Little is ever gained by telling someone what they want to hear.

The canceling of the Europe tournament is actually not a bad sign. If that tournament would have stretched them maybe putting everything in jeopardy they did the right thing. The cover story is fine you always have to put the best spin on things as long as you aren't kidding yourself. If they came out tomorrow and made a statement they were going to have to cut all prize funds because they had over estimated what they could realistically do that would be fine.

The they could maybe in the future realize their vision. People like and respect honesty and are very forgiving. I would hate to see them shoot themselves in the foot with undoable plans.

 

[Timberly]

I understand exactly but addressing specific issues is important. Much of what is said here could never be said by the players themselves, they are too job scared but it needs to be said. Whether they admit it or not they read these boards and I feel some of the changes that have taken place are due to public critiquing. Little is ever gained by telling someone what they want to hear.

The canceling of the Europe tournament is actually not a bad sign. If that tournament would have stretched them maybe putting everything in jeopardy they did the right thing. The cover story is fine you always have to put the best spin on things as long as you aren't kidding yourself. If they came out tomorrow and made a statement they were going to have to cut all prize funds because they had over estimated what they could realistically do that would be fine.

The they could maybe in the future realize their vision. People like and respect honesty and are very forgiving. I would hate to see them shoot themselves in the foot with undoable plans.

TAP TAP TAP

I can assure you that I absolutely do not want this tour to end. I have quite a few good friends on there and I would love nothing more than for this to succeed. Like Macguy stated, we're saying and questioning things that need to be said but that the players simply can't do themselves.

I've stated before that because of KT's past, he was going to have to work harder than someone else would to get people to trust him. To date, he hasn't put forth that extra effort. The deal with the checks is a perfect example. A) He should've made sure that something like that didn't happen. B) He should've publicly apologized to the players, given a reason, and a resolution. Most companies would've done this... KT needed to do it more so because of his background and peoples fear of this very thing. The fact that the IPT has completely ignored this situation makes the red flag even bigger.

Our reactions to this and others things is due to the actions or lack thereof on the IPT's part. Macguy was right in that most decent people of the world like and respect honesty and will be more forgiving. Lie to us or ignore us and the chances for leniency and forgiveness grow considerably smaller.


I've had a couple of friends joke that I should be a player rep because I do what I can to look out for their best interest. Looking out for their best interest includes uncovering the truth so that they can make informed decisions on their future. Perfect example is I don't want to see a friend sink $2000 into a qualifier while all the players are still waiting to get paid...

 

[memikey]

The prize money from the cancelled event has not entirely "disappeared". KT's promise of tour players earning $13K this year is still in place. For those players who, after the Chicago event, have not earned their $13K, will receive a check for the difference. I don't think anyone (in the U.S) objected too much due to the fact that if we would have had the event in Britain we would have had a couple of thousand in expenses as well as having to deal with the actual flight and threats associated with flying overseas. Don't forget about the other expenses and trials such as passports also. There were a few players with passport issues also.

All in all, the players weren't too terribly upset about the cancellation of the event. Yes, we would have loved the opportunity of the second tour player only tournament and it would have greatly increased several players chances of making the top 100, but here's the deal:

You and others complain and complain about the IPT and want desperately to see it fail. The players that are on the tour (for the most part) want desperately to see it be a success. Therefore, we are quite a bit more tolerant of ANY changes that KT and staff need to make. We understand that things are not perfect and will have to be changed. We understand that everything that he says may not be written in stone. But we will accept change and do so without (too much) questioning because we want this to be a success. Don't talk down to us because of our dreams of having a successful tour. Don't *pee* in our Wheaties, please. We aren't totally ignorant and do realize that all is not kosher at this time. When you start hearing from the players (who are the ones at this point with something to lose), then feel free to tell us how we should have been more upset because you knew it was going to fail........ til then, I really don't see the point to all of this endless chatter regarding KT, MS, DA or the IPT. Let's act like adults who want to support our sport and want to see this tour be a success, not only for us, but for all of the players worldwide - today AND, especially, TOMORROW!

Tammie Jones

Whoah there Tammie !

First of all I have never ever,not even now, expressed a desire for the IPT to fail or that I knew it would fail,quite the reverse,I was a loud supporter of it from day one and still am in many ways.

I have played in qualifiers,participated in sponsoring others (none of the referral fees for which have been received by the way) and have generally contributed positively every time there has been something positive to support both on this site and on others.Pool is in my blood and I want it to succeed.

However none of that blinds me to glaringly obvious shortcomings when they arise,nor any apparent blatant naivety from other posters and I tend to simply call a spade a spade.

The "terrorist issue" is virtually a non-issue for almost everyone but Americans who seem to have scant perspective in that field (there goes that spade again ).You are far far safer from personal violence or death in a plane on your way to London or whilst in London than you are in any major American city and indeed you are even safer right here in the heart of The Middle East.The 'booking' for the London venue never really existed and the decision to cancel the tournament was taken long before the latest terrorist threat which in itself is rapidly turning out to have been grossly exaggerated anyway.

I am not deliberately talking down to anybody and I apologise if it seemed or seems so but when someone says on behalf of players who purport to want to be members of an "international" pool tour that obtaining a passport would be an issue it is hard to bite ones tongue.......but I will......beam me up now Scotty,before I get my spade cracked over my skull

The 'guarantee' to make up minimum earnings from prize money to US$ 13,000/- is of course better than nothing but the net total falls hundreds of thousands short of what was published as 'guaranteed' prize money in the first place.

You make good points about how not all Americans wanted the London event to go ahead.Unfortunately one of those Americans appears to us hardbitten guys to have been KT......... and not necessarily for the same reasons as the American players had.

IPT is the greatest thing to happen to pool in my long lifetime,whatever happens next, but the notion that its lifespan or success will be improved by everyone ignoring any shortcomings is not realistic.Please don't take anything I say personally,it isn't intended that way and good luck with the remaining event.

Right now it isn't actually me or anyone on this website who's weeiing in your Wheaties as I'm sure deep down you know

 

[stevelomako]

LOL...the ironing is delicious.


As Marvel stated, you were still guaranteed the minimum prize money of $5k if you get knocked out of the first round.
This is why they didn't change the prize distribution for players eliminated in the first round. The graduated paying system only takes place for subsequent rounds.

Other than you, I don't know anyone else who thinks this was a bad idea.

It's...NOT...a bad idea. It's actually very good.

BUT,
If you qualified for the tournament and the pay-outs were already listed and you showed up the day before and they said it's different now, would you like it?


You make the 3rd round and you're supposed to have 15,000 coming (it's STILL listed on the IPT site) and you're told you're only getting 9,000 and change, I think you wouldn't like it either. Around 60 players are getting less and for a bunch the difference is alot.

I'd like to see them get their act together and make a ton of money and be able to put on a tournament every week.

 

[Eieio59]

Mimikey and Timberly,

I know you guys don't mean any harm and actually do want this tour to succeed. It's just that in the last couple of weeks this has really gotten to be redundant. We get on several times a day to read posts and the theme never changes. It's a little old now.

While everything that I said IS exactly how I feel, the one thing that I do agree with everyone on is that the tour has not handled this in a proper manner. No, I don't mind waiting for the check. Yes, I am glad just to have this opportunity. Yes, I think this tour is the best thing that has ever happened to pool and I desperately want it to succeed. BUT, myself and others on the tour would have liked to have known to expect this. I do realize that many players were depending on that money (myself included), whether to pay expenses for their travel, to pay bills or for some other need (that's my case). Whatever their particular need, I think that all of the players were somewhat disappointed. Personally, I have had to scramble for funds to keep checks clearing and have had to rob Peter to pay Paul more than once in the last couple of weeks. It just proves that I should not have put the cart in front of my horse, but rather should have waited for my horse to begin with! I've learned a valuable lesson. No, I'm not happy. Yes, this has impacted my life and my lifestyle. However, I keep stressing that this is a work of art in progress and who knows how many more times things will need to be changed. I'm along for the ride, will wait (sometimes impatiently) and will try in the meantime to get more people watching the coverage and buying memberships. BTW, do you two have your memberships down? If not, be sure to write me in as your referral............I could sure use it while I'm waiting.........

Tammie Jones

 

[DaveK]

Huh.

You people really are bit dum.

This new system is by far better than the original, and it was in BD, but also clearly announced in the players meeting. The prize money was the same, only the distribution changed -> to a much better and fair way. Every first round looser got the promised 5000$, and the rest had to fight for extra bucks and all the racks were important. The better players were favoured, like in all the sports.


Come on guys, you really know how to be ridiculous.

You missed the point (see Steve's second post in this thread) post, and spelled "dumb" wrong. I'm thinking your opening remark is the kettle calling the pot black.

Dave

PS to Tammie, fans will always have criticisms. You'll never get away from it unless you lose all the fans. Don't let it get to you. As Winston Churchill once said (I paraphrase, don't have the exact quote, but ....) "If you stop to throw stones at every dog that barks at you on your journey, you will never get to your destination."

 

[Timberly]

the last couple of weeks this has really gotten to be redundant. We get on several times a day to read posts and the theme never changes. It's a little old now.
The reason there are so many posts lately is because the IPT has been completely silent on this matter. If they had made an announcement, people still would've complained about things on here but not nearly to the extent of what's been going on lately. Their silence just makes people more angry and causes speculation of everything else go through the roof.


While everything that I said IS exactly how I feel, the one thing that I do agree with everyone on is that the tour has not handled this in a proper manner. No, I don't mind waiting for the check. Yes, I am glad just to have this opportunity. Yes, I think this tour is the best thing that has ever happened to pool and I desperately want it to succeed. BUT, myself and others on the tour would have liked to have known to expect this. I do realize that many players were depending on that money (myself included), whether to pay expenses for their travel, to pay bills or for some other need (that's my case). Whatever their particular need, I think that all of the players were somewhat disappointed. Personally, I have had to scramble for funds to keep checks clearing and have had to rob Peter to pay Paul more than once in the last couple of weeks. It just proves that I should not have put the cart in front of my horse, but rather should have waited for my horse to begin with! I've learned a valuable lesson. No, I'm not happy. Yes, this has impacted my life and my lifestyle. However, I keep stressing that this is a work of art in progress and who knows how many more times things will need to be changed. I'm along for the ride, will wait (sometimes impatiently) and will try in the meantime to get more people watching the coverage and buying memberships. BTW, do you two have your memberships down? If not, be sure to write me in as your referral............I could sure use it while I'm waiting.........

Tammie Jones

I know Deno reads every thread in this place... Deno, you and I have met in person and we got along quite well. I certainly have nothing against you, but I do have issues with your current employer. Please look at the bold print in the quote above. There are many, many people in this situation right now. At the very least, please make a statement so that these people will know how much longer they're going to have to rob Peter to pay Paul. The players deserve an answer.

Thank you.

 

[jsp]

If you qualified for the tournament and the pay-outs were already listed and you showed up the day before and they said it's different now, would you like it?

I here ya steve. So you're complaining more about the IPT changing something that has been stated in writing as opposed to the actual change in prize distribution.

I agree, the IPT has changed a lot of things that have been written on their website. Another example was how they totally changed the methodology of how the subsequent groupings (other than the first round) were decided. They had a systematic process on the website since the NA Open, but immediately after round one of the World Open, they deleted it and changed the process. Sure, they changed it for the better, but the fact they changed something that was in writing for a period of time.

Though they did change the prize distribution for the World Open in the last minute, I really doubt that many players were upset with the change BEFORE the tournament. After the tournament is another story.

 

[sjm]

But we will accept change and do so without (too much) questioning because we want this to be a success.....When you start hearing from the players (who are the ones at this point with something to lose), then feel free to tell us ....
Tammie Jones

The fact is that although you and other pro players sometimes forget, the fans of the game have a stake in the IPT, too, and, therefore, have something to lose. If you think that only a pro player has something riding on the IPT and its activities, that is regrettable. The IPT has brought us the greatest fields in the history of our sport. As a fan who attends many live pool events, this is very exciting to me. If the IPT fails, I will feel a great loss.

 

[Eieio59]

Your exactly right! The one thing that I have enjoyed even more than playing is sweating these matches.... I mean during any round there might be 20 tables that I want to watch! I have said more than once that when I played Alex and he beat me 8-0 in like - no time.......the best part of it all, was that I got a front row seat!

I truly understand what you say...........

Tammie

 

[Marvel]

You missed the point (see Steve's second post in this thread) post, and spelled "dumb" wrong. I'm thinking your opening remark is the kettle calling the pot black.

Dave

PS to Tammie, fans will always have criticisms. You'll never get away from it unless you lose all the fans. Don't let it get to you. As Winston Churchill once said (I paraphrase, don't have the exact quote, but ....) "If you stop to throw stones at every dog that barks at you on your journey, you will never get to your destination."

Heh, yeah, looks like I was pretty "dum" to spell it wrong, but if you read the first sentence in you post, it's pretty "dumb" also.


..like it did matter something......

 

[Marvel]

Heh, yeah, looks like I was pretty "dum" to spell it wrong, but if you read the first sentence in you post, it's pretty "dumb" also.


..like it did matter something......

PS. Word 'ridiculous' i spelled right. Did I? That's by far the more difficult word than dum or even dumb. That's what you envyous small spirited complainers really know how to be. RIDICULOUS