Hiding your speed, why and how?

okinawason,

that's some funny stuff there :cool:

i'm up for salary negotiation next week and i was wondering if you could borrow some of your self assessments skills; you are an SL14 in that area and should afford me 6 and still be ok.

appreciate any help,
 
okinawa77 said:
I started out playing league with a team captain that would tell me to lay down. I thought that was the way the league was. I didn't know the rules of league play at that time. I quit that team, and joined another. My new team captain is cool. He tells me to win every match. So, I let my speed out. I beat every SL7 in 8B, and got division top shooter a few times.

So, now the only serious competition I have, is against sandbaggers that decide to let there true speed out on me. I like crushing them like bugs. I play more strategically now, and I have found the game to be more fun. I know how to play and win against sandbaggers.

As far as hiding speed for money games (outside of league), I do what one other guy already mentioned.....I aim to miss, but to miss only a hair off. I actually will try to rattle the pocket and try to get the cue ball to ride along one of the rails and go into the next pocket.....and I try to execute and make the shot consistently. But, sometimes rattling pockets will scare off money players, too. Because they are afraid that the rattling streak will become a pocketing streak.

So, sometimes I will shoot all soft shots. So, soft that it doesn't get all the way to the pocket...which is a foul, resulting in BIH for an opponent. I have found that when you shoot hard, other players think you are really good because you are shooting so confidently. Also, other players don't like playing against bangers...especially in 9 ball, because they can get a lot of slop shots. Shooting super soft shots is indicative of a novice or beginner player. The reason I know that....is because when I first started playing...that's exactly what I did. I shot super soft. Shooting super soft will also allow you to see the table rolls, and by remembering the table rolls...you can use this to your advantage during match play. On thing of note, is to use center ball only. Using extreme english scares off other players, because it is thought that only good players use a lot of english. Use this misconception to your advantage. Center ball is actually the top level way to shoot. When you can get extreme cue ball action using center ball, your stroke is truly in-line. And you get more consistent collisional track lines. Predicting these track lines accurately is essential for getting your desired CB position.

Another way to hide your speed, is to shoot carom shots. Other players will see that you are missing the first contacted OB, and think the occasional secondary OB is just slop. Especially, when you are shooting 3 cushion shots. This allows you to keep your CB positional and collisional track line skills sharp, and you get a sense of how the rails are functioning.
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Wow, you must be one helluva player. Kind of like the unbeatable Tom Cruise in the Color of Money?
 
HIDING SPEED, WHY AND HOW:

WHY.....to entice drunks, idiots and "hustlers" to play for $

HOW.....when missing a shot shoot the OB to a specific spot close to the pocket. Be carefull to not play logical position patterns. Scratching is an asset. Continue to focus on QB control, it could be crucial later.

DUMPING..."backers" normally know enough to recognize intentionally missed shots and if they didn't think you could play they wouldn't post. Missing shape and staying on the wrong side can turn some cosmos into "couldn't get there" outs. It's easy to come up short or get long if the positional line is crossed enough.

REALITY...the net, cellphones and an ever increasing army of pool detectives have obviated "lay-down" skills unless someone just wants to have fun...
 
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I'll answer the easy one first - how? by not playing anywhere near your potential (purposely). Now, the one most won't like - why? Because you are dishonest, and to keep up with others who you know are also dishonest, you feel you need to.....or, you just want that much of an advantage when playing someone else.
 
I find it easy just throw all the balls on the table shoot for 20-30 minutes make one or two balls by slop never intitional keep saying almost had it, but hit your spot on the rail. Work up a sweat and they come to you. From there your on your own to figure out if your the fish still or the winner.

Craig
 
DrJ said:
Fatboy...I was going to say the same thing (but from a little different perspective) except I thought that I'd get laughed at...what is all this mania with "hustling" in pool??? How many of the hustlers out there really make any serious money at it anymore, and when is pool going to start to be more of a sport, and less like a circus full of small time hustlers...while my dream might be to get good and beat people, why would I aspire to be fooling people to take advantage of them...well I guess I'm not a player, and I don't really understand anything about the game....
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I wouldnt laugh at you, thats not polite and demening. And as far as I'm concerned anyone who plays pool regulary is a "Player" maybe not in the proper defination that suggests a "Player" is a highly skilled person at pool. Buy if you play its your passion even if you dont play good your still a player in a sence, I knew a guy who had a black belt in karate that played pool for years, he couldnt run 4 balls if his life depended on it, he never improved at all, but he was in action with a friend getting the 2,4,6,8 and losing, the guy he was playing plays real good but still all he had to do was make 2 in a row to win, I think they once made a game if he made a ball he won and he did win that game. My point is he lovedd pool was terrible but was still aplayer because he would put $$$ in the fire all the time, he did win but anyone could give him the 5 ball. I think he still plays, he just sucks but is a great guy and a "Player" in my book, guys who pull moves, shark etc. arnt players no matter how good they play.
 
Fatboy said:
I wouldnt laugh at you, thats not polite and demening. And as far as I'm concerned anyone who plays pool regulary is a "Player" maybe not in the proper defination that suggests a "Player" is a highly skilled person at pool. Buy if you play its your passion even if you dont play good your still a player in a sence, I knew a guy who had a black belt in karate that played pool for years, he couldnt run 4 balls if his life depended on it, he never improved at all, but he was in action with a friend getting the 2,4,6,8 and losing, the guy he was playing plays real good but still all he had to do was make 2 in a row to win, I think they once made a game if he made a ball he won and he did win that game. My point is he lovedd pool was terrible but was still aplayer because he would put $$$ in the fire all the time, he did win but anyone could give him the 5 ball. I think he still plays, he just sucks but is a great guy and a "Player" in my book, guys who pull moves, shark etc. arnt players no matter how good they play.
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That is the first time I've ever heard someone make that type of statement (regardless of what sport or game is involved). Not that it's a bad view or anything, just surprising. I usually only will use the term player if he/she is VERY GOOD at what they are playing.
 
trustyrusty said:
That is the first time I've ever heard someone make that type of statement (regardless of what sport or game is involved). Not that it's a bad view or anything, just surprising. I usually only will use the term player if he/she is VERY GOOD at what they are playing.
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Like I stated the proper defination is when a person is highly skilled, But I do make exceptions for people who have played hard for years and just cant play and are in action. When your in action for years and you still suck thats just bad luck not being blessed with any talent but their charcter and heart is that of a more skilled person a real player.

I look at it like this I cant draw anything but stick figures, but if I went to art school and bought all my oil paint etc and did it for 5 years 4 nights a week and still sucked, am I a artist or not? I dedicated myself to painting, been around the best painters went to europe and studied the grand masters work, but still cant paint a bowl of fruit, am I just a stick figure drawer or a artist?(i didnt go to art school it is a example) Same with pool some pay their dues and cant make a ball, others play good when they are 12 years old.

For me when someone has paid their dues then they are a player, perhaps not a good one but in a loose sence of the word they are. not the proper definition they are a player meaning highly skilled. hows that? weak players and strong players.
 
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Stalling is the quickest way I know to get out of stroke. I've seen it happen many times, and the "good" player gets stuck and starts to steam.

Am I the only one who has seen this happen?
 
jay helfert said:
Stalling is the quickest way I know to get out of stroke. I've seen it happen many times, and the "good" player gets stuck and starts to steam.

Am I the only one who has seen this happen?
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i had you doggin it pretty bad last time we played "Feel the force Jay....." I will put you in a spell again, we played a 45 min game of 9 ball banks, that I won. Come get a dose again-bring a cue tomarrow. I want to see those other things too ;)
 
jay helfert said:
Stalling is the quickest way I know to get out of stroke. I've seen it happen many times, and the "good" player gets stuck and starts to steam.

Am I the only one who has seen this happen?
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I believe you Jay, I just don't see a point in purposely playing badly is all...
 
Okay, you got me!

It's time to come out of my 20 year STALL! LOL

Stones
 
jay helfert said:
Stalling is the quickest way I know to get out of stroke. I've seen it happen many times, and the "good" player gets stuck and starts to steam.

Am I the only one who has seen this happen?
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Jay you know as well as most that to stall playing 1P you dont have to intentionally miss or hit a ball funny, just shoot the wrong ball the best you can, you still have to hit the shot good or even better because its the wrong move, its called under moving not out moving your opponent. That kinda works in 8B too but not in any rotation game.
 
olauzon,

I play APA in South Bay (California), but I am in Japan (Yokohama) for business, currently.

I am scheduled to come back to the Cali at the end of Feb, and I need to practice for Single's Regionals in March.

If you ever want to come over to Lucky Shot Billiards or Shoreline Billiards in the Sunnyvale/Mountain View area to play some pool, I'd be glad to make some time for you.
 
crawfish said:
Wow, you must be one helluva player. Kind of like the unbeatable Tom Cruise in the Color of Money?
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unbeatable Tom Cruise?........No, I'm not that good, but I'm working on it.

I was offered to be staked and taken on the road about 2 years ago, but I didn't feel I was ready at that time....and the guy was a total stranger to me. I also wasn't ready to quit my job because it pays pretty good. If he were to offer staking me again, I would probably take him up on it.
 
hang-the-9,

I forgot one more way to hide speed....

Sometimes, shooting left handed when first hitting balls on a table is a good tactic.....when being primarily right handed. When someone approaches you to play for money, they usually won't notice the switch to the right hand.

But if you're ambiodextrous, like I am....play right handed, and if someone wants a handicap, then offer to play left handed.
 
hang-the-9,

I just realized that you posed a 2 part question. You asked WHY and HOW.
I only saw the HOW.

To answer the why......hiding speed has only 1 intention, to gain an unfair advantage against an opponent.

In league play, hiding speed is sandbagging....dumping games during the session, in order to gain an unfair advantage during finals.

When I play league, I don't sandbag. I play to win. I let my speed out.
But lately, I have been playing more strategically during my matches. Mainly, because sometimes I beat other SL7s very badly....like 5 to 0.
And honestly, I feel a little bad about it....because my opponent had to pay league dues to play, and he really didn't get his money's worth. I know I would be pissed if I played someone, and I only got one chance to shoot. Especially, if the one chance to shoot....was the lag.
Now, I'm not saying I routinely run 5 packs. Hell....I can't even remember the last time I ran a 5 pack. But I did quite often win 5 games in a row with less than 10 innings. Now, the only time I try to run a 5 pack is during practice. During league match play, I like to think of 8 ball as Chess.
If my team ever advances to the finals, then I will start running out.
 
okinawa77 said:
unbeatable Tom Cruise?........No, I'm not that good, but I'm working on it.

I was offered to be staked and taken on the road about 2 years ago, but I didn't feel I was ready at that time....and the guy was a total stranger to me. I also wasn't ready to quit my job because it pays pretty good. If he were to offer staking me again, I would probably take him up on it.
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Well, as long as you don't play Tom Cruise level, and you do hit the road, then stop off in the Carolinas and grab some action.
 
When playing for fun or playing at my house, I frequently hide my speed and/or will lose intentionally.

This is because some players will not play anymore if I win every game. Some people will stop playing if they lose just two games in a row! (I live in a rural area, so I don't have access to a lot of good players like you would in a big city.)

I know each person and know how many games I can win without them going home. The goal is to keep the person playing as long as possible. I like to play and would rather be playing and lose then not be playing at all.

In some cases a player is very good once he warms up and has shot in all his balls for a few racks. So I intentionally miss shots so the player can warm up and win a few games. Then I have stiff competition and have to fight to win from there on out. More fun!

Also sometimes beginners need to get a lot of shots under their belt so they will improve. If I shoot in all the balls and they just sit and watch, this is not helping them any. So I will make sure they can shoot in a lot of balls each game.

At first I got discouraged and disgusted that people did not want to play anymore after losing. That I had to play less than my full potential. But I have learned fun and creative things I can be doing with my shots while I am waiting for the other player to shoot in his balls.

Playing 8-ball...
-I can switch off my defensive play and not play any safeties making things easier for my opponent.

-I can barely miss a shot (hits edge of pocket) and leave the cue ball in a spot so my opponent has an easy shot.

-I can intentionally scratch giving my opponent ball-in-hand.

-I can shoot a kick shot and "miss" my ball and instead break out a nearby cluster of my opponent's balls making things easier for him (Darn! I should have aimed over more!) Then also ball-in-hand for my opponent.

-I can shoot in one of my balls and break out my opponent's cluster with the same shot.

-I can shoot in or move my balls which are blocking my opponent's shots.

-I can shoot in most of my balls to make things easier for my opponent (not in way).

-Or I can move all my balls to one end of the table so not in the way. Then I have a big cluster. I wait for my opponent to shoot in most of his balls, then I try to win with that big cluster mess.

-I can practice low percentage difficult shots. So instead of an easy cut shot into the corner, I will shoot a difficult kick shot.

-Sometimes I will shoot in most of my balls to get them out of my opponent's way and get to a point where I know I could win from there. (2 or 3 balls left on table wide open), then I know I could have won, but instead of winning, I intentionally miss my next shot and leave the cue ball so my opponent has an easy shot.

-If both my opponent and I are down to the 8, I try to intentionally miss the 8 - so the 8 and cue ball wind up with an easy shot for my opponent. This is very difficult!

Basically I am practicing various shots (without winning) while waiting for my opponent to win. So this has turned out to be fun.
 
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