High Runs -- Free for All or...

[Dan White]

Personally I don't think it's OK for a player to move balls -- accidentally or with purpose.
Lou Figueroa

I don't have a problem if someone touches a ball and then replaces it. Particularly if there is no obvious advantage from having touched it. If the run is in the spirit of a post to the forum like "Here's my 150 ball run" and a guy brushes a ball with his hand and then catches it and puts it back I don't think it matters. That kind of foul is more a technicality that has no bearing on the actual run. I remember one run just like that in this forum awhile back.

Of course if the run were for money the rules obviously would have to cover this up front. Now, if the guy touches a ball every rack that's another matter to me. Don't know why but it just doesn't seem right.

 

[michael4]

it might be awkward if some standards were established, and someone with a prior very high run found out their run didn't qualify under the new standards.

For example, what if Mosconi's run doesn't meet the new criteria?

 

[lfigueroa]

I don't have a problem if someone touches a ball and then replaces it. Particularly if there is no obvious advantage from having touched it. If the run is in the spirit of a post to the forum like "Here's my 150 ball run" and a guy brushes a ball with his hand and then catches it and puts it back I don't think it matters. That kind of foul is more a technicality that has no bearing on the actual run. I remember one run just like that in this forum awhile back.

Of course if the run were for money the rules obviously would have to cover this up front. Now, if the guy touches a ball every rack that's another matter to me. Don't know why but it just doesn't seem right.

I think the rules about touching a ball are in place for a reason -- at some point it becomes hard to rule between "brushing" a ball and "moving" it in a significant manner, particularly if the ball in question is a key or break ball.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

it might be awkward if some standards were established, and someone with a prior very high run found out their run didn't qualify under the new standards.

For example, what if Mosconi's run doesn't meet the new criteria?

Mosconi's run is what it is and can actually be incorporated.

One could say that the run can be on a regulation sized table -- 7', 8', 9' or 10'. One could also say the pockets could be up to 5" in size.

One would have to assume from there that given Mosconi's history of playing all ball fouls in tournament championship play, that he took his own polished balls to each exhibition, and that polishing balls mid match/run was not generally observed (not that I've ever heard of -- it would be worthwhile to check with someone like Charlie Ursitti on this), one could say that the balls used were immaterial as long as they were not polished after the start of the run.

Lou Figueroa

 

[sjm]

Another interesting question is whether a break is permitted. Though I cannot verify it myself, I've heard form a few that Gene Nagy's run of 430 occurred over two days. Does it matter?

 

[Dan White]

I think the rules about touching a ball are in place for a reason -- at some point it becomes hard to rule between "brushing" a ball and "moving" it in a significant manner, particularly if the ball in question is a key or break ball.

Lou Figueroa

I'm kind of making a distinction between something fun like the high run thread in this forum vs an officially sanctioned set of rules. I think incidental contact doesn't matter 99% of the time and if a guy says he ran 101 with a brushed ball, that's fine by me. (He can also say he "ran" 101 balls, but he damn well better not say he "raced to" 101 balls).

For anything more "serious" like a money event, then "cue ball fouls only" would probably be ok as long as there were a ref present. If it's good enough for some tournaments then why not high runs? If there is a ref, he could always call unsportsmanlike conduct and DQ the whole thing.

On the other hand, double hits would be off-limits in my mind.

 

[lfigueroa]

Another interesting question is whether a break is permitted. Though I cannot verify it myself, I've heard form a few that Gene Nagy's run of 430 occurred over two days. Does it matter?

er, I dan't know... I guess the way you figure that out is to take a rule and stretch it to it's logical extreme: suppose a guy ran a rack and put his cue down and came back to it the next day, and then the next, and so on and so forth. I don't know how you verify something like that, so I would say no to a two, or three, or more day run.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

I'm kind of making a distinction between something fun like the high run thread in this forum vs an officially sanctioned set of rules. I think incidental contact doesn't matter 99% of the time and if a guy says he ran 101 with a brushed ball, that's fine by me. (He can also say he "ran" 101 balls, but he damn well better not say he "raced to" 101 balls).

For anything more "serious" like a money event, then "cue ball fouls only" would probably be ok as long as there were a ref present. If it's good enough for some tournaments then why not high runs? If there is a ref, he could always call unsportsmanlike conduct and DQ the whole thing.

On the other hand, double hits would be off-limits in my mind.

Like I said, I don't know where the bright red line is between brushing a ball and moving a ball (or more) really is. So my personal opinion is that if you touch a ball, run over -- even the fun stuff.

As to money events, my memory is a little fuzzy but the only high run money events I can think of are like at the DCC and those I think are all ball fouls. There isn't a ref, but there is a score keeper/witness all the time. The other situation would be guys doing it on their own -- trying to run balls -- with or without video.

Lou Figueroa