FWIW & W/O reading any posts, I think it should be just the opposite, as the cost for travel/lodging is in play for the out of towners.
Higher entry fees for out of towners.
- Thread starter JoeyA
- Start date
I don't think lower entry fees are fair for anyone.
However, pool room owners, IF THEY WANT OUT OF TOWNERS, should negotiate lower than normal, motel/hotel rates for visiting players. It's good for the local economy, not just the pool room.
Is it too much to ask if the opinions are from people who actually do travel and play at local tournaments? I'm just asking because clearly Joey does. And he knows I have for years in the past. But, I wonder if some answers are not coming from experience. Just wondering.
My personal experience is that I've played tournaments where it there was a first-time fee. But, some locals (maybe all locals) didn't pay it. But, if I happen to come back, I didn't have to pay it again.
I have played tournaments where it was explicity: you're not from the town, please pay an extra fee. I think this is the anti-robbery move.
Then there's the.. you're new, here's your extra handicap cuz we don't know you.
I'm actually surprised that Joey in his travels hasn't come up against this before more.
Again, I don't see an issue. I'm there to play in their tournament and hopefully make off with their money. And disappear as far as they're concerned. That's my opinion.
But ,it may be that Joey is talking about different kind of tournaments rather than the local weekly tourneys. In my opinion, in a "State Championship" I think it's perfectly okay if residents pay less than out-of-staters.
Freddie
My personal experience is that I've played tournaments where it there was a first-time fee. But, some locals (maybe all locals) didn't pay it. But, if I happen to come back, I didn't have to pay it again.
I have played tournaments where it was explicity: you're not from the town, please pay an extra fee. I think this is the anti-robbery move.
Then there's the.. you're new, here's your extra handicap cuz we don't know you.
I'm actually surprised that Joey in his travels hasn't come up against this before more.
Again, I don't see an issue. I'm there to play in their tournament and hopefully make off with their money. And disappear as far as they're concerned. That's my opinion.
But ,it may be that Joey is talking about different kind of tournaments rather than the local weekly tourneys. In my opinion, in a "State Championship" I think it's perfectly okay if residents pay less than out-of-staters.
Freddie
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I agree...but then again,some peoples ideas are just that...laughable.
If the goal is to reduce the number of out of towners or to eliminate them from the "State Championship", then they should do so by stating that this event is for State residents ONLY.
I thought he was talking about a bigger tournament.
I'm not sure if I fall into your category or not. I don't travel all over the country to play in tournaments but I do try to go to the ones within driving distance when I can. I see your point about state championships but a lot of aggravation could be avoided by all if they advertise their policy on the subject in advance.
I wouldn't want to drive several hours, get a hotel room etc. and then find out I got to pay more than expected for the tournament.
But if you ask me the extra expense is only a small part of the pitfalls of out of town play. What bugs me are the biased calls, bracket tampering and other discouraging tactics. If you don't want non locals just say so. Otherwise make it fair across the board.
For what its worth the above paragraph has been my experience with only a small portion of the out of town tournaments that I have been a part of. Most of the time it's a pretty enjoyable experience.
It's just a tactic to keep dead ringers away to keep the money local.
So the locals don't get all bent out of shape when some stranger shows up, lights them all up, and leaves with what the locals consider, "their" money.
I remember 10 some years ago, Ronnie Alcano played in almost a full season of the Joss tour. Like 2001 or 2002.
He won like half the tournaments he played in.
Those tournaments were jam packed with northeastern talent.
No one shied away at all. They all manned up.
And this wasn't some dude from another city or state. This guy was from another country!
Tournaments were jam packed too. No staggered entry fee, no discrimination.
You pay, you play, end of problem.
I don't think i've ever seen a situation like someone from out of town getting charged more, happen at the regional level or higher.
I've only seen it happen in some bars, or some pool rooms having an "event".
The only instance where i have seen people have to pay more because they weren't local, was not in terms of entry fee, but in terms of if they wanted to get themselves in the calcutta. Which is way easier to understand then just flat out robbing the guy on his entry fee who just drove 2 hours to play. They figure if you drove that far, then obviously, you aren't just doing it to have a good time, so lets pump him up in the bidding.
And as far as handicap tournaments go, it should just be a given that you have to donate a few times to get your rating right.
But i can't see the tournament that is doing this out of town based entry fee, as having any strong local talent. If it did, who cares who shows up?
Maybe the details of the tournament can be revealed. Makes it easier to see the motives as to why this would be done.
So the locals don't get all bent out of shape when some stranger shows up, lights them all up, and leaves with what the locals consider, "their" money.
I remember 10 some years ago, Ronnie Alcano played in almost a full season of the Joss tour. Like 2001 or 2002.
He won like half the tournaments he played in.
Those tournaments were jam packed with northeastern talent.
No one shied away at all. They all manned up.
And this wasn't some dude from another city or state. This guy was from another country!
Tournaments were jam packed too. No staggered entry fee, no discrimination.
You pay, you play, end of problem.
I don't think i've ever seen a situation like someone from out of town getting charged more, happen at the regional level or higher.
I've only seen it happen in some bars, or some pool rooms having an "event".
The only instance where i have seen people have to pay more because they weren't local, was not in terms of entry fee, but in terms of if they wanted to get themselves in the calcutta. Which is way easier to understand then just flat out robbing the guy on his entry fee who just drove 2 hours to play. They figure if you drove that far, then obviously, you aren't just doing it to have a good time, so lets pump him up in the bidding.
And as far as handicap tournaments go, it should just be a given that you have to donate a few times to get your rating right.
But i can't see the tournament that is doing this out of town based entry fee, as having any strong local talent. If it did, who cares who shows up?
Maybe the details of the tournament can be revealed. Makes it easier to see the motives as to why this would be done.
That's quite an all or nothing approach that I'm not understanding from you.
As an analogy, the BCAPL National tournament allows (allowed) non-league members to play in the national tournament but they had to pay a higher fee.
There is always an assumption that local player just by being local put more dollars into the business than an out-of-towner. It's still about business and getting more money from you or anyone is not a stick up.
I think you have received answers and the answers are legit.
I thought the BCAPL simply required non-league members to purchase a BCAPL membership to play in a national singles tournament only. This I understand.
If it's all about business and not a "stick up" as you call it, then it would seem to me that discouraging out of towners by raising the entry fee for out of towners is NOT smart business. I think pool room owners should want to increase business, not decrease business and my thinking is that visiting pool players, STIMULATE business, not stifle it. If it is about making money, my thinking is, don't penalize out of town players....
I genuinely believe that most people would like to see new players show up especially if they are better players.
I've noticed that some visiting players at our local pool room will avoid our weekly free pool tournaments even though their speed is well known, maybe out of courtesy to the pool room owner or to the locals.
This is probably true in a lot of places but not true in a lot of others.
Very possible. And this really is related to your initial post. There are clearly issues with out-of-towner visiting certain pool tourneys whether it's certain owners or certain local players that feel the unease. Raising an out-of-town fee is better than just blanketly saying "stay out, foreigner."
puish them more / already have gas food hotel entry etc / the way i look at it everyone has to have a job / if thats theres i give my entry fee / but they gotta work for it
It's analogous. League players put money into that tournament beyond the entrance fee. They have dues and their yearly into the overall league. Likewise, if an owner has added money in their tournament, that is directly from revenue from mostly the local customers in table time, food, drink, etc. An out-of-towner generally has no skin in the game for any added money.
If pool was a growing sport, I'd agree with you. But it's not. In my opinion, it's about surviving, not stimulating at this point in pool's history. And for good business, the room owners trying to maintain their customer base and loyalty makes sense.