Historical High Runs in Straight Pool

sharandrew

sharandrew

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'd like to know about high runs in striaght pool of some of the hall of famers like Caras, Mosconi,Mizerak... Lassiter, or other great players like NY Blackie.......

A constant argument i hear is that the old timers had easy pockets, 10 footers ect.. todays players have better cueballs cloth etc..

What is the truth did these "legends" run higher numbers more consistantly?? who knows and witnessed runs?

What numbers did these greats have????
 
The most heralded of all runs was 526 by Willie Mosconi on March 19, 1954.

The resulting affidavit indicated that the run occured on a 4x8 table at East High Billiard Club in Springfield, Ohio. There are reports that those tables were particularly loose and had fresh cloth per Brunswick's requirement for Willie to appear.

Willie later commented on video that he was somewhat relieved when the run ended because he was tired. Think about how long that must have taken. The shot that finally ended the run was a thin cut per Willie.

Here is the affidavit:
affadavitattestingtomos.jpg
 
I have the utmost respect for Willie (and his several decade long history of world class play), so please don't interpret this as a knock against him, but I hold several other runs in higher regard.

For example, did you know that Thomas Engert (Germany) claims a run of 492 balls on a 9' table? No affidavit like Willie, so he will not get the proper credit.

Did you know that Babe Cranfield (USA) claims a high run of 768 (table size unknown)? Again, a practice run without credentials, so he will not get the proper credit.

Did you know that Mike Eufemia (USA) claims a high run of 625 (table size unknown)? Again, a practice run without credentials, so he will not get the proper credit.

Did you know that John Schmidt (USA) ran 294 on a 9' Diamond ProAm? This is on tape, but very few consider the difficult playing conditions he faced.

Schmidt has completed a few 400+ runs on more typical equipment.

Thorsten Hohmann (Germany) has been over 400.

Even the gunslinging Earl Strickland (USA) claims a run of 408. No one seems to talk about that.
 
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mosconiac said:
I have the utmost respect for Willie (and his several decade long history of world class play), so please don't interpret this as a knock against him, but I hold several other runs in higher regard.

For example, did you know that Thomas Engert (Germany) claims a run of 492 balls on a 9' table? No affidavit like Willie, so he will not get the proper credit.

Did you know that Babe Cranfield (USA) claims a high run of 768 (table size unknown)? Again, a practice run without credentials, so he will not get the proper credit.

Did you know that Mike Eufemia (USA) claims a high run of 625 (table size unknown)? Again, a practice run without credentials, so he will not get the proper credit.

Did you know that John Schmidt (USA) ran 294 on a 9' Diamond ProAm? This is on tape, but very few consider the difficult playing conditions he faced.

Schmidt has completed a few 400+ runs on more typical equipment.

Thorsten Hohmann (Germany) has been over 400.

Even the gunslinging Earl Strickland (USA) claims a run of 408. No one seems to talk about that.
Click to expand...

I've heard that before as well. Good gravy, imagine how long it must have taken to run 768.
 
mosconiac said:
...
Did you know that Mike Eufemia (USA) claims a high run of 625 (table size unknown)? Again, a practice run without credentials, so he will not get the proper credit. ...
Click to expand...

From Eufemia's book on straight pool (page 9):

IN the summation of extraordinary feats Mr. Eufemia has "amassed" many
high run records. He has been billed in many tournaments as Mr. High Run.
All of his high run records are official since they were performed in preannounced
and advertised exhibition games before large "audiences."
He has run over three hundred balls ten times with high runs of five hundred
and fifty five (555 ) balls and six hundred and twenty five ( 625 ) balls
All the runs were accomplished on a regulation tournament size 4 1/2 x 9 table.​
 
Bob Jewett said:
From Eufemia's book on straight pool (page 9):

IN the summation of extraordinary feats Mr. Eufemia has "amassed" many
high run records. He has been billed in many tournaments as Mr. High Run.
All of his high run records are official since they were performed in preannounced
and advertised exhibition games before large "audiences."
He has run over three hundred balls ten times with high runs of five hundred
and fifty five (555 ) balls and six hundred and twenty five ( 625 ) balls
All the runs were accomplished on a regulation tournament size 4 1/2 x 9 table.​
Click to expand...

Why then, is Mosconi credited for the world record high run? Is it simply because there was an attorney present during his 526 who was able to prepare that affidavit? If Eufemia ran 625 in "preannounced and advertised exhibition games before large audiences," is that not enough to award him the record holder?
 
9BallMarksman said:
Why then, is Mosconi credited for the world record high run? Is it simply because there was an attorney present during his 526 who was able to prepare that affidavit? If Eufemia ran 625 in "preannounced and advertised exhibition games before large audiences," is that not enough to award him the record holder?
Click to expand...

From what I understand, the 625 at least was not in an exhibtion. No one person saw the run from beginning to end (or not enough people) so it was disallowed when Guinness world records changed their criteria for something being a record.

If anyone is going to run 526 (625 backwards spookally) it has to be in exhibition or else it's no different than Cranfield's 768.

As for the topic at hand, I would expect the players of yesteryear were running far more high runs than today as it was THE game. It's what they practiced and competed in. It's like the top players of today playing 9 ball, they have the break down to a science and are probably on average superior shot makers.

If someone offered yearly 14.1 championships with million dollar prizes I suspect our players would catch up pretty quickly.
 
i want to se someone run 1000 balls in strait pool on a 9' table! if someone put up a few million bucks i am sure your players today can do the job!

insurance companys would put the money up i am sure...

that would be very cool... the first millennium run! :thumbup:
 
If the table was played on a 4X8 with 4 3/4" pockets,i would think it would be much harder to run over 400 on a diamond with 4 1/2" pockets. If top players had played straight pool in the last 30yrs like they did in the past, the record would have been broken many times. I think there is most likely over 40 players now that have the ablility.I'm oldschool, but i admit players play better now than in the past.
 
Cameron Smith said:
... It's like the top players of today playing 9 ball, they have the break down to a science and are probably on average superior shot makers.

If someone offered yearly 14.1 championships with million dollar prizes I suspect our players would catch up pretty quickly.
Click to expand...
This reminds me of Corey Deuel (Mr. Break Science) in the Derby City 14.1 Challenge. He ran his lifetime high of 153 in 2009. You have to wonder what he could do if he had 10 14.1 tournaments a year to play in. Also, in 2007, Mike Davis came within 10% of his lifetime high. Both of these were in 12 tries each.
 
Bob Jewett said:
This reminds me of Corey Deuel (Mr. Break Science) in the Derby City 14.1 Challenge. He ran his lifetime high of 153 in 2009. You have to wonder what he could do if he had 10 14.1 tournaments a year to play in. Also, in 2007, Mike Davis came within 10% of his lifetime high. Both of these were in 12 tries each.
Click to expand...

With the way Corey analyzes the rack, I would have to think he would become an awesome 14.1 player. Already is good, there is a video of him running 99 on youtube in practice.

These guys are such straight shooters, they can simplify otherwise challenging patterns by taking tougher (for the rest of us) shots.
 
mosconiac said:
... Did you know that Babe Cranfield (USA) claims a high run of 768 (table size unknown)? Again, a practice run without credentials, so he will not get the proper credit. ...
Click to expand...
I just got an email back from Babe's co-author, Larry Moy.

The table was almost certainly a 4.5x9. While there was someone present during the whole practice run, no one was there during the whole thing. (From what I hear, you could expect Babe to run 200 on any particular night, so him passing 100 or even 200 would be no good reason to stick around.) He practiced at a quick tempo, and saved time by racking with his arms. (Quick tempo probably means around 12 seconds per ball or better on average, so a 768-ball run would take less than 3 hours.)

A brief quote:
Babe kept his pocketing, stroke and position play sharp by, among
other things, practicing a series of spot shots. While playing
spot shots, he would practice drawing the cue ball off the long
rail, reversing it off the short rail, killing the cue ball, and
running it out two rails. He would practice these from both
sides. (In exhibitions, he would make spot shots one-handed. He
also made them blind: aiming, and then removing the cue stick
from his bridge hand, and then replacing it while his head was
turned the other way and his eyes were closed ... relying just
on the solidity and precision of his bridge hand. It was a hell
of a thing to see!)
​
 
exoldschoolpro said:
I'm oldschool, but i admit players play better now than in the past.
Click to expand...
As it should always be. It is simple evolution on display. The players of today benefit from the discoveries of yesterdays players...therefore should display superior knowledge & skill. This is NO disrespect to the players of old, they were the best of their time & the pillars of knowledge they left behind are what todays players stand upon.
 
LAlouie said:
Well, if you're going that route, make today's players play with yesterday's equipment.
Click to expand...

I agree with this, particularly the choice of cloth :)

I would rather see Straight Pool being played on the old heavier barbox cloth, than on the faster 9ball orientated cloths of today like Simonis 860, Z9 Clother, etc :)

Straight Pool on the faster clothers suited to 9ball just doesn't feel right somehow :confused:

Willie
 
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