Hitting softly but still 'firmly'?

A

Aten

m8
Silver Member
So I feel like this is the next big thing I have to change to step up my game... I think I hit the ball waaaaaaaaay too hard most of the time.

I hear a lot of people talking about hitting the ball "pure" or hitting the ball softly yet firmly. I have tried slowing down my backswing but I feel like I am not getting the same effect as those who do have a pure stroke. Their hits seem "light" yet the cue ball still reacts beautifully... when I try to hit "softly" all that happens is the cue ball seems to 1. not take spin and 2. react very lazily, usually resulting in a pretty shaky hit.

Does anybody have any advice on this point? How can I "feel" the ball better while still having a solid grasp of speed and spin?
 
i too tend to hit the ball too hard many times but i am working on using more touch..i play with a friend who LITERALLY hits every ball with only pocket speed. i mean the ball hardly gets there....problem i witness with that is, he hardly ever makes shape on the next shot. he is a great shotmaker and makes most of the balls even with lousy shape but he could be a far better player using just a little more "hit". so i am trying to reach that happy medium between "banging" it and pocket speed....i'm doing better by conciously trying to not hit another ball unless necessary while making shape on the next ball. thanks for the post, i look forward to seeing what suggestions you get.
 
Aten said:
So I feel like this is the next big thing I have to change to step up my game... I think I hit the ball waaaaaaaaay too hard most of the time.

I hear a lot of people talking about hitting the ball "pure" or hitting the ball softly yet firmly. I have tried slowing down my backswing but I feel like I am not getting the same effect as those who do have a pure stroke. Their hits seem "light" yet the cue ball still reacts beautifully... when I try to hit "softly" all that happens is the cue ball seems to 1. not take spin and 2. react very lazily, usually resulting in a pretty shaky hit.

Does anybody have any advice on this point? How can I "feel" the ball better while still having a solid grasp of speed and spin?
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When using your normal stroke, do you have a lot of wrist action or does it stay fairly locked? You still have to accelerate through the CB even with a slow smooth stroke and a good snap of the wrist right before you contact the CB allows a slow stroke to accelerate through the CB.

If you don't usually involve your wrist in your stroke, then there will be a learning curve. You'll over draw, under draw and put unintentional english on shots usually because the wrist movement is hard to master at first. A few days of play and it will become easier.

On a side note, what tip do you use? Its easier to apply more spin on a CB with less effort with a Kamui SS than it is with a Kamui H...obviously.

Personally I have little to no movement in my wrist when I shoot. Its easier to cue straight IMO. I'd rather hit the CB a little harder and contact the CB where I want.
 
Pidge, when you said "On a side note, what tip do you use? Its easier to apply more spin on a CB with less effort with a Kamui SS than it is with a Kamui H...obviously. "

Do you have a way to quantify how much more spin you feel you get with a Kamui Super Soft Tip vs a Kamui Hard?
 
I just got a Moori S installed today actually, not really sure if I snap my wrist or not... I think there's a little forward movement in my wrist when I stroke through the CB but it's not quite obvious
 
This is my personal opinion, and by no means fact. I've got a Kamui SS and H on the same type of shaft and when I've tested trying to use the same speed of stroke, same CB contact point, same balls same distance etc the SS would consistently draw back 1-3 diamonds further.

Now, this is by no means a fair or scientific test. No tip, even of the same brand and hardness are the same and all tips will play different. But its the best I can do.
 
Try this little exercise for fun.

Setup for a shot. Get the tip of the cue touching the CB. Now just stroke forward, no back stroke.

Next, do the same setup as before. Now, just use a little amount of back stroke.

Repeat adding a little more back stroke each time.

It is amazing how little back stroke one needs. It is easier to control the speed of the cue with a short back stroke and less distance for the cue to go off line.

Also, practice doing pocket speed drill. This is the drill using only enough cue ball speed to make the OB barely roll into the pocket. Do this with various distances and cut angles.

It is interesting to see how cut angle affects the speed of the OB. Once you get a feel for pocket speeds, you then can better gauge how much more speed on the CB is needed for shape. I see people all the time overshoot their position because they used more speed that was needed to pocket a ball.

And they also do not understand how the cut angle affects the transfer of energy from CB to OB and as a result the CB seems to roll forever to them.

Time is the only way to get the level of sensitivity needed to feel the cue tip as it contacts the CB.

You must train yourself in being able to use whatever cue speed is needed, from super slow to very fast. This a wide range of cue speeds and requires great skill in using your shooting muscles. It is harder then you think to shot slow. Too slow everything down.
 
I guess I'll chime in but this is just my experience with hitting firmly yet softly. I too wondered how some people seemed to just float there cue into the cue ball very lightly and could get good action off it. I experimented around with different kinds of strokes and then one day just realized they were simply just really following through with their stroke. I've tried it and was amazed by the results. I know it seems really basic but you'd be amazed with the amount of action you get if you just push through with your stroke a little but more. I suppose I should of known that from the beginning, but I guess it just showed a couple of flaws in my fundamentals. Hope that helps.
 
In persn...

Aten said:
So I feel like this is the next big thing I have to change to step up my game... I think I hit the ball waaaaaaaaay too hard most of the time.

I hear a lot of people talking about hitting the ball "pure" or hitting the ball softly yet firmly. I have tried slowing down my backswing but I feel like I am not getting the same effect as those who do have a pure stroke. Their hits seem "light" yet the cue ball still reacts beautifully... when I try to hit "softly" all that happens is the cue ball seems to 1. not take spin and 2. react very lazily, usually resulting in a pretty shaky hit.

Does anybody have any advice on this point? How can I "feel" the ball better while still having a solid grasp of speed and spin?
Click to expand...

Find someone (an instructor maybe?) who can watch you play and diagnose your stroke (etc.) IN PERSON.

It's rather difficult to assess someone's game and make meaningful suggestions without actually seeing them play...
 
Aten said:
So I feel like this is the next big thing I have to change to step up my game... I think I hit the ball waaaaaaaaay too hard most of the time.

I hear a lot of people talking about hitting the ball "pure" or hitting the ball softly yet firmly. I have tried slowing down my backswing but I feel like I am not getting the same effect as those who do have a pure stroke. Their hits seem "light" yet the cue ball still reacts beautifully... when I try to hit "softly" all that happens is the cue ball seems to 1. not take spin and 2. react very lazily, usually resulting in a pretty shaky hit.

Does anybody have any advice on this point? How can I "feel" the ball better while still having a solid grasp of speed and spin?
Click to expand...

By the sound of your description, it looks like you are one of those players that likes to jab the cue ball.

As you termed it softly hitting the ball but still have a lot of cue ball, I assume you mean the stroke that hits the cue at ball the lowest point of your forward swing.

Unfortunately, jabbing and low point contact are both acquired habits. Either one of them will be your natural stroke and the other will be artificial stroke (the one that you need to think about which doesn't feel right most of the time). If your natural stroke uses a jabbing like motion then you will need a lot of practice to get rid of it.
 
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I would say it seems like you need to learn the "medium stroke", and I strongly recommend the Bert Kinister "Shot # 1" for this. Set up an object ball and the cue ball about a quarter-inch from the long rail, with the object ball three diamonds away from the far corner and the cue ball two diamonds away from the near corner. What you're doing here is not quite a stop shot. You want the cue ball to roll forward exactly one revolution, thus replacing the object ball instead of stopping dead. You're hitting with center ball, but at the speed where it stops sliding just before it hits the object ball. This requires a somewhat firm, but not hard stroke, and will improve your stroke quality and accuracy. Do about 100 of those a day and see what happens over the course of a month. I think you'll be pleased.


And most important, make sure your grip hand is relaxed and follow through the ball!
 
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in my opinion u maybe trying to over compensate from being a banger and someone who plays pocket speed. maybe your makeup is not condusive to a soft stroke. I have played many a player who didn't possess the "soft stroke", but they could still hand you your hat. I do possess the "soft stroke" but that skill came by way of necessity because 1 pocket was one of the first games i learned to play competitively (gamble). I understand the need to have another arrow in your quiver but i also don't think u should ditch your entire game just because you are not immediately proficient at the soft stroke. take your time and experiment with different advise and aids but remember there are worse things than not having a "pure stroke".
 
Here is a practice technique to develop softness.

Take the CB and stroke the cue such that the CB rolls exactly 1 diamond (without hitting anything). When you get this one down, roll the CB 2 diamonds,...

You simply cannot hit the CB too hard and have it stop in 1 diamond (unless you are using lots of massé.)
 
duckie said:
You must train yourself in being able to use whatever cue speed is needed, from super slow to very fast. This a wide range of cue speeds and requires great skill in using your shooting muscles. It is harder then you think to shot slow. Too slow everything down.
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All good drills & advice from Duckie. That is also why I prefer a lighter cue as I feel I can always add power but it is harder to dial down a heavy cue.
 
2 schools of thought

for hitting a shot softly, especially when the cue ball has to follow the shot a certain amount of distance.

One is too simply use follow and too slow your stroke down to the proper speed for the cue ball to follow forward the amount of distance. This is how I do these shots and have no trouble with them.

The second method is to hit a stun or semi-stun shot firmer, and have the cue ball follow. I feel these type of shots is actually harder to perform where you can tell how far forward the cue ball will roll after performing them.

Either way you need to practice these shots, both ways, until you feel halfway comfortable with both methods.
 
Snapshot9 said:
for hitting a shot softly, especially when the cue ball has to follow the shot a certain amount of distance.

One is too simply use follow and too slow your stroke down to the proper speed for the cue ball to follow forward the amount of distance. This is how I do these shots and have no trouble with them.

The second method is to hit a stun or semi-stun shot firmer, and have the cue ball follow. I feel these type of shots is actually harder to perform where you can tell how far forward the cue ball will roll after performing them.

Either way you need to practice these shots, both ways, until you feel halfway comfortable with both methods.
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The angle of the cut and distance from the pocket to the OB is key to how much speed is needed to make the OB. On a high angle cut shot, like 80 degrees or more and say 2 ft from the pocket, requires a lot of CB speed to make it even for just pocket speed.

Set up a ball on the center of the table. Setup a high angle cut shot into one of the side pockets. Shoot the shot and try to put the CB on the end rail.

Set it up again, this time stop the CB mid table.

Keep doing this having the CB stop a different places on the table. Remember 80 degrees or more for the cut angle.
 
Aten said:
So I feel like this is the next big thing I have to change to step up my game... I think I hit the ball waaaaaaaaay too hard most of the time.

I hear a lot of people talking about hitting the ball "pure" or hitting the ball softly yet firmly. I have tried slowing down my backswing but I feel like I am not getting the same effect as those who do have a pure stroke. Their hits seem "light" yet the cue ball still reacts beautifully... when I try to hit "softly" all that happens is the cue ball seems to 1. not take spin and 2. react very lazily, usually resulting in a pretty shaky hit.

Does anybody have any advice on this point? How can I "feel" the ball better while still having a solid grasp of speed and spin?
Click to expand...

It's not necessarily a bad thing to be a power player, but it's definitely a good thing to develop the finesse part of the game too. I, on the other hand, have more problems with the power game.

The players who hit soft shots that still get good cue ball action are usually due to generating more spin or playing a little further from center than you're used to.

Efren is a really good example. It shows up more when you're watching him play live. He looks like he's delicaltely caressing the cue ball, yet it motors around like a gyroscope. Jose Parica also comes to mind. On the other side, I consider Johnny Archer more of a power player. He uses more stun and directs the cue ball around on laser-like tangents.

The trick to the soft game is to understand the relationship between forward speed and spin. Spin off the rails is a lot more effective at lower speeds. The spin "takes" better at slower rail contact speeds generating motion when it's at a helping angle. The other thing is to get further from center of the cue ball and use less force. Say you want to draw the ball a foot or two on a short shot, just hit it easy but get the tip as low as possible.

Here's a good shot to practice using inside english to see if you're really spinning the ball as much as you think and to demonstrate that slower speeds let the english grab better. If you use enough spin and especially at a low enough speed you will be able to make the cue ball cross over the spot. If you hit it too hard, the spin won't take. The goal is to first get to shot A where the cue ball comes straight back, then shot B where the cue ball actually reverses direction off the rail. If you can master these shots, inside will never scare you again!
 

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Aten said:
So I feel like this is the next big thing I have to change to step up my game... I think I hit the ball waaaaaaaaay too hard most of the time.

I hear a lot of people talking about hitting the ball "pure" or hitting the ball softly yet firmly. I have tried slowing down my backswing but I feel like I am not getting the same effect as those who do have a pure stroke. Their hits seem "light" yet the cue ball still reacts beautifully... when I try to hit "softly" all that happens is the cue ball seems to 1. not take spin and 2. react very lazily, usually resulting in a pretty shaky hit.

Does anybody have any advice on this point? How can I "feel" the ball better while still having a solid grasp of speed and spin?
Click to expand...

Oh man, I think I see a whole new sub-forum coming !

Your talking about feeling what you are doing and becoming one with the cueball.

This is galactic super advanced pool 1001.

IT IS whats it's all about !

Better wait for help, I haven't the time left to explain it all.

But I think you're on the right track. :cool::cool:

Besides you already have the key word, "feel". Feel it !
 
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