Hitting softly but still 'firmly'?

[Dunnn51]

Ok, I'll give it up

If you are talking about how a top player hits a ball with an "effortless" motion,.... that is top-follow.
They don't change their cue, or their stroke, or handle position on their cue; they change contact position on the cue ball. Just last night I played a top player in my pool hall, and he went into top follow against me playing 10 ball. He would run out rack, after rack, after rack with that "effortless" tap on the rock occasionally using 1 or 2 rails.
When good players use it, they make whitey on the felt look like a swan swimming on a still lake.

My swan stops, ducks, and goes in circles every so often !! :thud:

 

[Dunnn51]

for hitting a shot softly, especially when the cue ball has to follow the shot a certain amount of distance.

One is too simply use follow and too slow your stroke down to the proper speed for the cue ball to follow forward the amount of distance. This is how I do these shots and have no trouble with them.

The second method is to hit a stun or semi-stun shot firmer, and have the cue ball follow. I feel these type of shots is actually harder to perform where you can tell how far forward the cue ball will roll after performing them.

Either way you need to practice these shots, both ways, until you feel halfway comfortable with both methods.

Sorry snap, I didn't see your post when I typed this. REP for You !!! :thumbup:

 

[Arlene]

Firmly yet softly.....one is not banging the ball wildly or timidly hitting the ball hoping it might go in.
The fellow that taught me once said," hit the ball with authority."
It's the feeling that you are in control of the ball.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

This is my personal opinion, and by no means fact. I've got a Kamui SS and H on the same type of shaft and when I've tested trying to use the same speed of stroke, same CB contact point, same balls same distance etc the SS would consistently draw back 1-3 diamonds further.

Tip hardness shouldn't matter - maybe you're more comfortable hitting lower on the CB with a softer tip (because it feels like it won't miscue as easily).

I think the way to learn soft shots is simple and obvious: practice them.

pj
chgo

 

[PDX]

I call it "stroking through the cue ball". It's a simple and pure stroke that took me years to realize. It's all about controlling the rock. Pocketing balls is secondary.

 

[joelpope]

So I feel like this is the next big thing I have to change to step up my game... I think I hit the ball waaaaaaaaay too hard most of the time.

I hear a lot of people talking about hitting the ball "pure" or hitting the ball softly yet firmly. I have tried slowing down my backswing but I feel like I am not getting the same effect as those who do have a pure stroke. Their hits seem "light" yet the cue ball still reacts beautifully... when I try to hit "softly" all that happens is the cue ball seems to 1. not take spin and 2. react very lazily, usually resulting in a pretty shaky hit.

Does anybody have any advice on this point? How can I "feel" the ball better while still having a solid grasp of speed and spin?

If you grip your cue tightly you will kill all the action

Think of it as delivering the cue as opposed to hitting the cue ball

 

[joelpope]

Pidge, when you said "On a side note, what tip do you use? Its easier to apply more spin on a CB with less effort with a Kamui SS than it is with a Kamui H...obviously. "

Do you have a way to quantify how much more spin you feel you get with a Kamui Super Soft Tip vs a Kamui Hard?

That's funny... Different strokes for different folks

I get more action from hard tips, much crisper hit with more precise energy transfer

 

[CreeDo]

Aten, don't overthink it It's common sense physics.

Getting more action = getting more spin.
Getting more spin can be done in two ways:

1. Hit harder
2. Hit further away from center

You're trying to avoid doing 1. So what's that leave you?

Practice putting the tip a little further out than you're comfortable with, and make sure you actually hit where you intend to on your final stroke. A lot of players don't, especially trying heavy draw. An easy trick to detect this problem: Grab a striped ball, clean it off, and use it as your cue ball. Pick a point on the ball where you want your tip to hit. Now chalk up like mad and hit your striped cue ball. Afterwards if you pick it up you should see a chalk mark where you actually struck. Was it where you intended? If not, that's where you need to put your focus.

A fun way to test your ability to put maximum draw on a ball while stroking soft, is to figure out the minimum amount of force you need to do a stop shot at a certain distance (say, 3 diamonds). You'd be surprised at just how softly you can hit a ball and still make it stop dead. And you'll find you can hold slight cut shots without allowing the cue ball to move much.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

CreeDo:
Getting more action = getting more spin.
Getting more spin can be done in two ways:

1. Hit harder
2. Hit further away from center

Hitting harder doesn't give you more "action"; only hitting farther from center does that. Hitting harder increases RPMs and CB speed together - for more "action" you need to increase spin more than you increase speed - that means hitting farther from center.

pj
chgo

 

[Tramp Steamer]

Practice some simple bank shots, making each one softer than the one before.
Also, make sure you're not elevating the cue too much. Try keeping it as level as possible.
Remember: Soft, softer, softest. :smile:

 

[3kushn]

Try to push the ball or try to keep the cue tip in contact as long as possible. Neither can be done. Just try.

Smooth follow "through the ball."

So many people have good follow through, but still punch or slap the ball. Follow through does not define a good stroke. Its just one result of a good stroke.

 

[Slasher]

If you are not getting the desired reaction from the CB then you are not hitting where you think you are, "effect" to find the cause you need to look at your execution.

Grip: not too tight as to pull the cue off it's natural path

Sight: are you having one last look at the CB before delivering so you are sure where you are striking?

Tension: no tension in the forearm, wrist, bicep or grip as this will decrease cue speed and pull the cue off line.

Transition: from back-swing to forward, pause at back to allow smooth transition and accelerate.

Deceleration: requires tension and will pull the cue offline.

 

[Siz]

The last 2 posts (3Kushn & Slasher) are spot on imho. The one thing I would add is to try to feel your arm accelerating as slowly as possible from its position at the end of the backswing.

 

[duckie]

If you are not getting the desired reaction from the CB then you are not hitting where you think you are, "effect" to find the cause you need to look at your execution.

Grip: not too tight as to pull the cue off it's natural path

Sight: are you having one last look at the CB before delivering so you are sure where you are striking?

Tension: no tension in the forearm, wrist, bicep or grip as this will decrease cue speed and pull the cue off line.

Transition: from back-swing to forward, pause at back to allow smooth transition and accelerate.

Deceleration: requires tension and will pull the cue offline.

A cue does not have a natural path, only the path you give it and this has nothing to do with grip pressure,tension, deceleration.

There must be a certain amount of tension in any muscle in order for the muscle to work. The key is not to have too little nor too much. Watch how violinist use their bow arm. You do not to be too tense because this will impede fine muscle control. Too little, there is no fine muscle control.

Cue stick speed, cue angle of attack, playing conditions, and where and how the CB is stroked are what affects the action of the CB.

I can shoot one handed shots, put spin on the ball, getting the position needed for the next shot. The reason I mentioned this is because it goes almost against everything in the quote.

Pay more attention to your cue speed. Slow down, keeping a steady, not accelerating speed through the contact with the CB. If you do it right, it will not feel as if your hitting the CB at all, but more pushing it on its way.

A small change in cue speed has a great affect on how the CB reacts. 14.1 is good practice for learning how to move the CB around at slow speeds using just the right amount of spin.

 

[ndakotan]

really?

Sorry, but I completely disagree. Tension in the forearm and use of the shoulder/body tension completely change the track of the cue. You have to see someone line up correctly, then jerk stroke the ball and completely miss the object ball in order to see it, but it happens. When they jerk stroke, they tighten up their arm, flexing the tendons/muscles in the arm, causing the arm to move sideways, thereby affecting the line of the aim. If your statement were true, a jerk stroke would not cause a miss, just an ugly speed control. Jerk strokes are generally hit hard, causing a wider miss. It is difficult to badly jerk stroke a softly hit ball. I have absolutely seen other jerk stroke, and I've been known to do it on occassion. The action should not be pushing the cue through your bridge hand, but letting your arm fall forward with some bravado (can't think of a better word just now) and following through. Visually aiming correctly (which takes some practice and coaching for many) is also crucial. I wish you were correct, I'd be a much better player. I am hampered by my inability to consistently stroke the same way every time. Grip pressure, tension, and no deceleration are the 3 keys.

A cue does not have a natural path, only the path you give it and this has nothing to do with grip pressure,tension, deceleration.

There must be a certain amount of tension in any muscle in order for the muscle to work. The key is not to have too little nor too much. Watch how violinist use their bow arm. You do not to be too tense because this will impede fine muscle control. Too little, there is no fine muscle control.

Cue stick speed, cue angle of attack, playing conditions, and where and how the CB is stroked are what affects the action of the CB.

I can shoot one handed shots, put spin on the ball, getting the position needed for the next shot. The reason I mentioned this is because it goes almost against everything in the quote.

Pay more attention to your cue speed. Slow down, keeping a steady, not accelerating speed through the contact with the CB. If you do it right, it will not feel as if your hitting the CB at all, but more pushing it on its way.

A small change in cue speed has a great affect on how the CB reacts. 14.1 is good practice for learning how to move the CB around at slow speeds using just the right amount of spin.

 

[Slasher]

A cue does not have a natural path, only the path you give it and this has nothing to do with grip pressure,tension, deceleration.
Yes these things do affect your ability to push the cue through in a straight line

There must be a certain amount of tension in any muscle in order for the muscle to work. The key is not to have too little nor too much. Watch how violinist use their bow arm. You do not to be too tense because this will impede fine muscle control. Too little, there is no fine muscle control.

Cue stick speed, cue angle of attack, playing conditions, and where and how the CB is stroked are what affects the action of the CB.
How has nothing to do with reaction, only speed, angle and point of contact

I can shoot one handed shots, put spin on the ball, getting the position needed for the next shot. The reason I mentioned this is because it goes almost against everything in the quote.
This has nothing to do with my points only that you have the talent to hit the CB where you want t o one handed, I have two hands so I like to use them, sort of fork vs chopsticks if you will.

Pay more attention to your cue speed. Slow down, keeping a steady, not accelerating speed through the contact with the CB. If you do it right, it will not feel as if your hitting the CB at all, but more pushing it on its way.
Not accelerating can cause you to effect the straight path of the cue.

A small change in cue speed has a great affect on how the CB reacts. 14.1 is good practice for learning how to move the CB around at slow speeds using just the right amount of spin.

Pretty much everything you suggested goes against the teachings of the majority of professional coaches.... odd?

 

[ENGLISH!]

So I feel like this is the next big thing I have to change to step up my game... I think I hit the ball waaaaaaaaay too hard most of the time.

I hear a lot of people talking about hitting the ball "pure" or hitting the ball softly yet firmly. I have tried slowing down my backswing but I feel like I am not getting the same effect as those who do have a pure stroke. Their hits seem "light" yet the cue ball still reacts beautifully... when I try to hit "softly" all that happens is the cue ball seems to 1. not take spin and 2. react very lazily, usually resulting in a pretty shaky hit.

Does anybody have any advice on this point? How can I "feel" the ball better while still having a solid grasp of speed and spin?

This may be a little late, but what hardness of tip are you using & on what weight cue? I think they both affect 'feel'.

I have always used a soft tip & a lighter cue for this reason. I can always add power when I want but it is harder to hit soft enough at times. I 'feel' that the softer tip allows me to put more spin to speed in that ratio & it allows a bit more stroke without the Cue Ball exploding off of the cue.

I think the discussion has also perhaps splintered into a discussion of the typical stroke vs that of a specialty stroke. There is a certain soft shot that I have to hit with my bridge hand oscillating up & down a bit coordinated with the back & forth of the cue. I have tried to hit this shot without doing so but with no where near the same success.

Some of what Duckie says can be functional if not typical.

Regards,

 

[Aten]

This may be a little late, but what hardness of tip are you using & on what weight cue? I think they both affect 'feel'.

Moori soft, 19 ounce cue

Thanks for the suggestions guys!

 

[ENGLISH!]

Moori soft, 19 ounce cue

Thanks for the suggestions guys!

That certainly seems okay. I prefer a bit lighter cue but that's just preference.

Since I've been experimenting with CJ Wiley's athletic grip I've not yet been able to find what you are looking for. I have it with my grip & way of playing, but with the firmer more athletic grip I have yet to find the 'touch' & 'feel' portion. As with any change, I know it will take time should I decide to really go for the change.

That being said, maybe it is your grip or wrist that is keeping you from finding 'it'. Do you have the ability to post a video of yourself? If so, I'm sure you will get some very constructive critique.

Good Luck on the Journey & Best Wishes,

 

[Aten]

That certainly seems okay. I prefer a bit lighter cue but that's just preference.

Since I've been experimenting with CJ Wiley's athletic grip I've not yet been able to find what you are looking for. I have it with my grip & way of playing, but with the firmer more athletic grip I have yet to find the 'touch' & 'feel' portion. As with any change, I know it will take time should I decide to really go for the change.

That being said, maybe it is your grip or wrist that is keeping you from finding 'it'. Do you have the ability to post a video of yourself? If so, I'm sure you will get some very constructive critique.

Good Luck on the Journey & Best Wishes,

After reading the 3 pages on this thread, I think the solution lies within my grip, backswing, and delivery. I'll try to record a segment when I hit the practice table tonight. Thanks for the blessings!

Here's a small clip from around last month that I uploaded a few days ago, I haven't been diligent about recording my practices but this was a quick segment captured by a friend. It doesn't manage to snap a direct view of my backarm + wrist during my stroke though so I'll post a new one today.

https://vimeo.com/53866059