hitting them harder...

[justadub]

...but note, I didn't say hitting them "hard".

Throughout my development in the short time that I've been playing, I have always hit what is considered "softly", mostly working for pocket speed if possible.

Of course, one can't limit his game to those kinds of shots, so I'm constantly trying to get better at hitting them, let's say "firmer". To get better position, especially on 9-foot tables, I have to do more than just slow rolling them. At least some times. Add to that, I am now playing in a 9-ball league, where getting on the "right side' of the ball is imperative, and sometimes that requires a little table traveling.

I realize that the bottom line answer is "practice." I'm asking for simple suggestions for improving my ability to hit the ball firmer. I ask for "simple" suggestions, as my actual practice time is limited. (And the subject of a different thread.) I need to work on this is small steps, and get better at it.

I'm looking for suggestions on what I might try for practice, and what to look out for. I don't believe that I'm clenching my grip, but of course I could every well be wrong. I do think that I have a tendency to increase the speed of my backstroke when I know that I need to hit it harder, and that is obviously not good. I do watch for that....

(Disclaimers....I know I should see a professional instructor, I should video myself, and I need to work these things out in dedicated practice time. My name is Bruce, and I'm not an instructor.)

Thanks for any thoughts you might have.

 

[FranCrimi]

Just a few questions, Bruce. What happens when you try to hit the ball firmer? Do you miss the shot? Do you miss position? Does the cb travel too far or is it some shots too far and some not far enough?

 

[Bob Jewett]

... I'm looking for suggestions on what I might try for practice, and what to look out for. ...

The simple "over the spots" drill is a start. Shoot the cue ball straight up and down the center of the table. You should be able to hit the rail you shoot from twice pretty easily (four table lengths). See if you can keep the cue ball within a diamond of the center of the table while you do that. Gradually work your speed up. Depending on the table, you may be able to hit the far cushion three times.

Another drill is to shoot straight at an object ball a diamond away. The goal is a perfect stop shot at high speed. The cue ball should have no spin and not move much after contact. You can measure your speed by how many lengths you drive the object ball if you drive it up and down the table rather than into a pocket, but you will have to be careful about the angle you set up for the shot.

 

[justadub]

Just a few questions, Bruce. What happens when you try to hit the ball firmer? Do you miss the shot? Do you miss position? Does the cb travel too far or is it some shots too far and some not far enough?

Good question, I didn't clarify that in my initial post.

Solely about missing shots. Too far or short, bad position....that would all be speed control (at least to me) and while I struggle with that at times, that is not my main concern.

A little more detail. I had a struggle shooting last week. I managed my game well enough to eek out a win in my 8-ball match on tuesday, but I was clearly missing shots I shouldn't miss, not with the regularity that I was missing them. On Thursday, during my 9-ball match, my struggles became far more pronounced, I had a bad night shooting. (Still almost won, despite it all, but that's not the point of the discussion.) I was really dogging stuff I shouldn't be. And in 9-ball, it becomes more obvious as I try to get around the big table in rotation.

Saturday night I got to go shoot some more, and it continued. I examined what I had been doing, mechanics and grip, and nothing seemed way out of the ordinary. To my uneducated eyes...

Last night, I tried going back to soft-hitting most everything, and my accuracy went back to where it should be. Thus my dilema, regarding increasing the speed if my shots, as necessary.

I realize that it must be stroke and mechanics related. It is frustrating. (At least I figured out where the major change was. At least one major change...and if I'm struggling I can back off and reset. That doesn't correct the need to be able to shoot more firmly, which I need to develop, but I can manage things in a match...

Thanks for the help. Bob, I'm going to try some of what you suggested tonight, I hope!

 

[michael4]

Dub, not an instructor, but I played the same "soft" game as you until I got lessons from Scott Lee (which focused on my stroke) Instantly my power went up and my accuracy didnt suffer.

Basically for me, my follow through was poor.

 

[justadub]

Dub, not an instructor, but I played the same "soft" game as you until I got lessons from Scott Lee (which focused on my stroke) Instantly my power went up and my accuracy didnt suffer.

Basically for me, my follow through was poor.

I've worked on this in the past, and I expect that follow thru is indeed a part of the issue. I will try to address that some in my practice, thanks.

 

[Okie]

I am a golf instructor but I spent all weekend at a pool hall...

Not sure I can explain this right but I will try.

When some players perceive that more power is needed they tend to over hit the shot by a large margin. Meaning that they add a lot of extra body motion and hand jerking and such which is unnecessary. Try this...when you want to hit a shot hard, think of using what you would normally use for a medium break shot. Or if that is too hard then use a soft break stroke.

And yes...this is a jedi mind trick lol

 

[PGHteacher]

To all:

Read my signature.

Bruce:

As one hits harder overall play level drops; I know you have some idea of the relationship between shot speed and overall play or else you wouldn’t have been shooting as softly as you can all this time.

But why does overall play drop? Many people don’t know how insidious the problem really is. Shooting harder has 3 main effects:

1. The pocket gets smaller.
2. You lose precision.
3. It is harder to judge exactly where the CB is going to come to rest.

But what happens to you as YOU increase the power? I think it is important to find out. Try this; set up the 11-ball so the “11” faces you precisely (the 1s are perpendicular to the surface of the table from a front & side view and the stripes are perfectly parallel), overchalk your cue so you can see exactly where on the ball your tip struck it, gradually jack up how hard you hit, do this with center-ball, follow-right, right, draw-right, draw-left, draw, draw-left, left and follow-left 5-10 times each.

Does the scatter of your actual contact points move in any way that is consistently inconsistent with your intended contact point? If so you have a stroke flaw that you know the effect of, now it is just a matter of figuring out what it is.

If you’re right handed and the scatter is to the right of your intended contact point there is a good chance you pull the butt toward your body as you increase the power, if the scatter is to the left of your intended contact point your butt pulls away from your body as you increase the power. (if you’re a leftie this is vice-versa of course) If the scatter is higher than you intended you’re dropping your butt, if it’s lower you don’t have a good awareness of the LOS (line of sight)/TCP (tip contact point) relationship.

Now to correct the problems once you figure out what they are is where it gets tough, as Bob said progressive practice will be your best friend here (but you knew that), good instruction will help instantly (but you knew that), video will help instantly (but you knew that). Getting that smooth, STRAIGHT, consistent delivery is a tough thing; it is one of the things that the game is all about. If I haven’t explained this well enough you can PM me.

As always I welcome comments from “you instructors with papers” on this advice.

1 final note Bruce is that it may be that you got the wrong impression when “they’ told you to “shoot soft”; what they really meant (or should have meant) is “shoot the shot as softly as you can to accomplish what you want to do” and even that is a “most of the time” thing.

Sometimes a power draw with left english is the softest shot that will do what you want to do. There is always a risk/reward factor with any shot that is not a soft center-ball hit (but you knew that). So don’t think “shoot soft” think “I need to do this; what’s the softest and least tip offset that I can use to do that”.

 

[justadub]

Thanks for the thoughts, PGHTeacher. More for me to work with, very cool.

For whatever reason, hitting softer came more easily to me than to many that I play with, folks who like to hit them harder. Probly related to how i learned follow easier than draw, also the opposite of the folks I play with.

Funny game, this pool.

 

[FranCrimi]

Just another question, Bruce, if you don't mind....

What started you hitting them softer in the first place? Was it anything specific that you can remember or was it something you just did without thinking about it?

 

[justadub]

Just another question, Bruce, if you don't mind....

What started you hitting them softer in the first place? Was it anything specific that you can remember or was it something you just did without thinking about it?

As a reaction recently, last night? Started naturally, not intentionally....then after a few, it struck me. "That was smooth, that was easy...I used to shoot this way most of the time, let me turn this stuff from last week around...." That was my line of thinking. I was pretty discouraged from last week, as I had been playing pretty well (for me) over the last couple of months, and I don't want to lose momentum. Getting the shot to go effortlessly, and predictably again was a welcome relief.

Again, that was pretty much the way I played during the first year or so when I started. Once I started trying actively working for better position, especially once I started playing 9-ball last year, I've begun trying to be able to strike the ball more firmly, as needed. It frustrated me, because I don't feel that I'm trying to drill them like many players I play with. It just seems to affect my accuracy too often. Stroke....stroke....stroke....

I guess i need to consciously make a distinction,especially in practice play, to try shots shooting firmer, but to not get hung up on it. Gotta work on it to get better....

 

[FranCrimi]

Ok thanks. I'm almost there, Bruce....just humor me with one more:

When you shoot in your comfort zone, softly:

1.) What is your bridge length?

2.) How long is your back stroke? For example, do you take it all the way back to your bridge hand?

3.) How long is your follow-through?

 

[PGHteacher]

Ok thanks. I'm almost there, Bruce....just humor me with one more:

When you shoot in your comfort zone, softly:

1.) What is your bridge length?

2.) How long is your back stroke? For example, do you take it all the way back to your bridge hand?

3.) How long is your follow-through?

I think I know what she is getting at and this could be a shorter way to correct the problem; good stuff continue this dialouge with her, she knows.

 

[justadub]

Ok thanks. I'm almost there, Bruce....just humor me with one more:

When you shoot in your comfort zone, softly:

1.) What is your bridge length?

2.) How long is your back stroke? For example, do you take it all the way back to your bridge hand?

3.) How long is your follow-through?

I think I'm beginning to see where this is leading, as well. which is cool

I'm gonna hold off answering till later, when I can get to a table with my cues, so I can answer more accurately. I'm goofing off at work, checking this of and on...

But I will check it later, and report back.

 

[justadub]

Ok thanks. I'm almost there, Bruce....just humor me with one more:

When you shoot in your comfort zone, softly:

1.) What is your bridge length?

2.) How long is your back stroke? For example, do you take it all the way back to your bridge hand?

3.) How long is your follow-through?

1.) Most of the time, 6-8 inches
2.) No, I don't take the backstroke all the way back to my bridge hand, maybe 2/3's of the way back.
3.) A couple inches.

Those answers are based on my trying to shoot naturally and not focusing on those questions. Also, I wasn't focusing on the specifics, cuz I think I figured out how to video myself, so if I figure out how to get that loaded to YouTube, you can see for yourself.

If I get it uploaded, I'll post a link for everyone to critique.

***EDIT*** I have failed YouTube on my first try...so the grim video evidence will have to wait a while longer, till I figure it out. Fortunately, I have two teenage sons to help me.

That's gonna be very humbling....

 

[TheThaiger]

Hitting them harder is a misnomer, I think. What you need to do is hit the CB with authority, which is something different entirely - and surprisingly difficult to do, or even explain to someone, for that matter.

I would make this a conscious objective until it becomes an unconscious action. Hit. With. Authority.