Hmmmm.... What Would JUDE Do???

[pharaoh68]

Ok. So I was playing over the weekend and, after my break, I was left with this. For the most part, it isn't too bad but, as you can see the 5,7 was causing some serious concern for me. So, I walked around the table a time or two and gave it some long hard thought. I came up with an idea in my head and then thought:

"Hmmmmm. What would JUDE do???"

I pondered for a moment and came up with something. I took my time, approached each shot with patience and concentration, and sure enough, executed it perfectly. But now, I'm a bit curious as to whether or not I played it right.

That being said, what WOULD Jude do???

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[BRKNRUN]

Jude would have made both the 3 & the 5 on the break.... leaving all the other balls where they are and a farily routine run out...

 

[Neil]

................

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Ok. So I was playing over the weekend and, after my break, I was left with this. For the most part, it isn't too bad but, as you can see the 5,7 was causing some serious concern for me. So, I walked around the table a time or two and gave it some long hard thought. I came up with an idea in my head and then thought:

"Hmmmmm. What would JUDE do???"

I pondered for a moment and came up with something. I took my time, approached each shot with patience and concentration, and sure enough, executed it perfectly. But now, I'm a bit curious as to whether or not I played it right.

That being said, what WOULD Jude do???

LOLOLOL

Nice out. Even without the 5/7 tied up, this isn't exactly a road map. BTW, is the 5 frozen to the rail?


Honestly, I would wait to see my position on the 2-ball. I would like to play safe simply because breaking out the 5/7 AND getting shape that will get you to the 6 is a lot to ask for. However, sometimes I think it's perfectly reasonable to go for it. I would look to get on the left side of the 4-ball (side pocket shot), come off the end rail and smack into the 5/7. I wouldn't be gentle about it, either.

 

[Fuji-whopper]

Anything wrong with spinning the one ball in with the CB ending up in the center of the table, shooting the 2-ball in the corner and leave position for the 4 near the 9-ball. Then play the 4 in the side going up table with a little inside English to break up the 5/7 from behind, even if you miss the breakout you can play a safety from that point.

Or is this why I keep losing matches?

 

[pharaoh68]

LOLOLOL

Nice out. Even without the 5/7 tied up, this isn't exactly a road map. BTW, is the 5 frozen to the rail?


Honestly, I would wait to see my position on the 2-ball. I would like to play safe simply because breaking out the 5/7 AND getting shape that will get you to the 6 is a lot to ask for. However, sometimes I think it's perfectly reasonable to go for it. I would look to get on the left side of the 4-ball (side pocket shot), come off the end rail and smack into the 5/7. I wouldn't be gentle about it, either.

YES!!! I was right then!

Here's what I did. I played the one in the corner by applying medium speed and a lot of left. This way, I pocket the ball and come two rails and out towards the middle of the table. Then, I pocket the 2 in the top left corner using hi-left, thus sending the cue off the rail and just a couple inches to the left of where I started leaving a very small cut into the side.

My next shot was top left with some force sending the 4 into the side and the cue into the right hand short rail. The top left sent me back up perfectly between the rail and the 5,7. I sent the 7 about three to five inches towards the middle of the table and the 5 nudged its way out off the rail about 2 inches. The cue was about 1 inch off the rail and left me a good shot at the 5 in the top left corner. I played this one with left and slid halfway across the table for a shot on the 6 in the lower right corner.

I shot the 6 softly rolling ever so slightly forward to leave myself a decent shot on the 7 in the side, which I played with a little follow. The cue then came off the rail about three inches leaving myself a follow shot on the 8 in the corner. A little high and ever so slight right brought me one rail up table for a shot at the 9 in the top left!!!

SWEET!!!

Thanks Jude!

 

[cleary]

If I had the ability to play like jude, I may try this. If they kick a miss the ball/whole cluster, its set up for another easy safe. If they kick do contact the two ball, with any luck it will break it all up.

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[BRKNRUN]

I am gonna guess you spun the 1 ball in with pace and sent the CB down off the other end rail and into the 5/7 breaking them up and kicking the CB out toward the center of the table for a shot on the 2

EDIT: I guessed wrong

 

[Aaron_S]

I would probably play it out to the 4 and then re-evaluate the situation; the angle would have to be pretty good for me to feel confident about breaking them out and getting a shot on the 5.

I also like this shot as an aggressive defensive alternative:

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Although the shot looks aggressive, I think it's also pretty safe. If you open the 5/7 on this shot, then you probably have a hook as well. If not, then you've left, at best, a tough out for your opponent. Worst case scenario is that you accidentally make the 1 and hook yourself on the deuce, but that would be pretty unlucky.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

I would probably play it out to the 4 and then re-evaluate the situation; the angle would have to be pretty good for me to feel confident about breaking them out and getting a shot on the 5.

I also like this shot as an aggressive defensive alternative:

CueTable Help

The problem with going this way is that there's a reasonable chance you'll leave yourself no shot on the 2-ball and quite possibly leave yourself hooked. What's more, you're more vulnerable to scratching and missing. If you miss the cluster, you'll likely get to see the 2-ball so it's not all bad but I'm not sure you'll have more than a lukewarm safety.


EDIT: I didn't see you were playing safe. Interesting shot.

 

[crawfish]

The problem with going this way is that there's a reasonable chance you'll leave yourself no shot on the 2-ball and quite possibly leave yourself hooked. What's more, you're more vulnerable to scratching and missing. If you miss the cluster, you'll likely get to see the 2-ball so it's not all bad but I'm not sure you'll have more than a lukewarm safety.


EDIT: I didn't see you were playing safe. Interesting shot.

Hey Jude, you really have a fan there. Hmmmm.

 

[Get_A_Grip]

YES!!! I was right then!

Here's what I did. I played the one in the corner by applying medium speed and a lot of left. This way, I pocket the ball and come two rails and out towards the middle of the table. Then, I pocket the 2 in the top left corner using hi-left, thus sending the cue off the rail and just a couple inches to the left of where I started leaving a very small cut into the side.

My next shot was top left with some force sending the 4 into the side and the cue into the right hand short rail. The top left sent me back up perfectly between the rail and the 5,7. I sent the 7 about three to five inches towards the middle of the table and the 5 nudged its way out off the rail about 2 inches. The cue was about 1 inch off the rail and left me a good shot at the 5 in the top left corner. I played this one with left and slid halfway across the table for a shot on the 6 in the lower right corner.

I shot the 6 softly rolling ever so slightly forward to leave myself a decent shot on the 7 in the side, which I played with a little follow. The cue then came off the rail about three inches leaving myself a follow shot on the 8 in the corner. A little high and ever so slight right brought me one rail up table for a shot at the 9 in the top left!!!

SWEET!!!

Thanks Jude!

When I analyzed this (for about 15 seconds) that's the choice that I came up with too and is what I would have tried, whether the best percentage play or not. (I guess that's how I roll -- when there is an opportunity to get out, that's what I try until I get out of line).

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

When I analyzed this (for about 15 seconds) that's the choice that I came up with too and is what I would have tried, whether the best percentage play or not. (I guess that's how I roll -- when there is an opportunity to get out, that's what I try until I get out of line).

Well, there aren't very many good safety plays here. With BIH, you can probably muster up something better. The question all boils down to, do you want to gamble with the break out or do you want your opponent to? To an extent, who you're playing should factor into this decision.

 

[Aaron_S]

EDIT: I didn't see you were playing safe. Interesting shot.

Thanks. I think it might be a good shot in certain situations. I agree that this is a situation where it's appropriate to play your opponent, not just the layout.

 

[BrooklynJay]

do you play the opponent ever? isn't it said that you should always play the table?

what would jude do?

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

do you play the opponent ever? isn't it said that you should always play the table?

what would jude do?

On the contrary, you should use every bit of information made available to you. If you know your opponent can't kick or jump, you safe more. If you know your opponent is overly aggressive, you push to tough shots. If you know they're better than you and will capitalize on every opportunity, you try to make sure they don't get those opportunities.

You can't blindly play the table. It's nice to be able to say, "I'm playing Brunswick next round" but the fact is, you're not trying to play perfect. You're trying to win and that's the bottom line each and every time you screw your cue together. The fact is, over the course of a set, you may NEVER be perfect. Few players in the world can claim such and even then, there are likely instances where the person sitting in the chair dictated what the correct shot was.

You saw my last league match. The biggest mistake I made decision-wise in that set was allowing my opponent an opportunity back at the table after I tied up the 7/8.

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Now, I think most will agree the probability of my winning the game after playing this safe is somewhere in the realm of 80-90%. However, I knew the moment the cue ball didn't freeze inbetween the 8 ball and the rail and how I left the 7-ball too close to the end-rail, my chances of winning the game were, at best, a coin-flip.

The fact is, I should have factored in my opponent's ability and taken my chances. I succeed, I win. I don't, I lose but at least his talent is no longer factored in into the equation. Below is what I should have done. It's what I should always do when I'm playing against someone so good. However, if I'm playing against someone ranked lower than me, I played the correct shot.

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[BrooklynJay]

On the contrary, you should use every bit of information made available to you. If you know your opponent can't kick or jump, you safe more. If you know your opponent is overly aggressive, you push to tough shots. If you know they're better than you and will capitalize on every opportunity, you try to make sure they don't get those opportunities.

You can't blindly play the table. It's nice to be able to say, "I'm playing Brunswick next round" but the fact is, you're not trying to play perfect. You're trying to win and that's the bottom line each and every time you screw your cue together. The fact is, over the course of a set, you may NEVER be perfect. Few players in the world can claim such and even then, there are likely instances where the person sitting in the chair dictated what the correct shot was.

You saw my last league match. The biggest mistake I made decision-wise in that set was allowing my opponent an opportunity back at the table after I tied up the 7/8.

CueTable Help

Now, I think most will agree the probability of my winning the game after playing this safe is somewhere in the realm of 80-90%. However, I knew the moment the cue ball didn't freeze inbetween the 8 ball and the rail and how I left the 7-ball too close to the end-rail, my chances of winning the game were, at best, a coin-flip.

The fact is, I should have factored in my opponent's ability and taken my chances. I succeed, I win. I don't, I lose but at least his talent is no longer factored in into the equation. Below is what I should have done. It's what I should always do when I'm playing against someone so good. However, if I'm playing against someone ranked lower than me, I played the correct shot.

CueTable Help

as i watch you play that safe i thought it was the "right" shot - and shouldn't you alway play the "right" shot all the time? the rail first carom shot is a very difficult shot in my opinion and would've "sold out" the table if you missed.

your safe was "this" close to being perfect, you almost froze the cueball to the 8-ball, but even without that maybe 1 person in 10 could go two rails and cut that 7-ball into the corner pocket. (unfortunately that one person's friggin' mika who you were playing - i swear i thought you had him) most people would've kicked to make contact, not kick to make the ball. you "should've" been back at the table after playing the right shot - a safe.

seriously, if left with the safety you left mika would you have tried the shot he did?

What Would Jude Do? in that situation?

 

[PROG8R]

Anything wrong with spinning the one ball in with the CB ending up in the center of the table, shooting the 2-ball in the corner and leave position for the 4 near the 9-ball. Then play the 4 in the side going up table with a little inside English to break up the 5/7 from behind, even if you miss the breakout you can play a safety from that point.

Or is this why I keep losing matches?

I dont think so. I saw the same thing. If you can get position on the 4 ball almost where the cue is now then it should be a fairly easy breakout.

 

[pharaoh68]

do you play the opponent ever? isn't it said that you should always play the table?

what would jude do?

Jay-

I'm with Jude on this one. You should ALWAYS play the table... but NEVER forget who your opponant is and what he/she may be capable of.

I don't know about Jude, but that's what Mega-B would do!!!

-Mega B <--------- thinks his self-given 'gay' nickname is cooler than his real name.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

as i watch you play that safe i thought it was the "right" shot - and shouldn't you alway play the "right" shot all the time? the rail first carom shot is a very difficult shot in my opinion and would've "sold out" the table if you missed.

your safe was "this" close to being perfect, you almost froze the cueball to the 8-ball, but even without that maybe 1 person in 10 could go two rails and cut that 7-ball into the corner pocket. (unfortunately that one person's friggin' mika who you were playing - i swear i thought you had him) most people would've kicked to make contact, not kick to make the ball. you "should've" been back at the table after playing the right shot - a safe.

seriously, if left with the safety you left mika would you have tried the shot he did?

What Would Jude Do? in that situation?

You always want to be a percentage player or in otherwords, be someone who plays the shot that has the highest percentage for success. That percentage is going to vary depending on who you're playing. You can't forget the game is interactive and that those percentages are based on all that's involved. Telling people "you have to play the table" is basically suggesting there's no variety to your opponents.

Also, I think you under-appreciate the kick that followed my safety. I wasn't going to get a shot out of it UNLESS he hung-up the 7ball. Had Mika failed to make the ball, he likely was going to fail by hitting the 7ball too thick. Had that happened, I would have been left nothing.

Below is the likely scenario had he missed. I think I like the rail-first carom now.

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