Home table subrail work. any tips?

[Donny Wessels]

I have these components made up and getting ready to join them together. Any tips?

I would like to go in several gluing steps but I'm afraid that dried excess glue will be a problem. I would also like to do this without any metal fastners.

This is what I'm thinking of doing.
1. Clamp top rail to lower subrail. 2. Clamp and glue upper subrail, lining it up with the top rail. 3. remove top rail clamps, add glue and reclamp.

do you think this will work? is there anything I'm missing out or any tricks that would help?

 

[TheTablePro]

Perhaps a half dozen biscuit cuts, biscuits and glue would work. It's common using that method on doors and panels and is quite strong. Or dowels might work....

 

[Donny Wessels]

Perhaps a half dozen biscuit cuts, biscuits and glue would work. It's common using that method on doors and panels and is quite strong. Or dowels might work....

I difinitely going to use busciuts on the aprins. Probably will end up using dowels, trying to avoid them due to the amount of time it will take.

 

[reverend]

What kind of table is that? What type of wood are the top rails? Looks like a fun project.

 

[ROB.M]

rails

I do know that glen dowels his rails when building them..
Best of luck
I have confidence in you'
-
Rob.M

 

[Donny Wessels]

What kind of table is that? What type of wood are the top rails? Looks like a fun project.

Zack, Not sure on the top rail wood, something exotic. These are Dave and Busters custom made by AE Schmidt. They can order new rails for $900 plus shipping and it takes about 6 months lead time. The new rails aren't half as good as the old rails. subrail is now stapled to the top rail, pocket holes don't line up, the inserts aren't bad but sometime fail, there cushion choice is poor, they switched to K66 cushions and didn't change the subrail angles and only added a cloth relief. They don't play bad considering their customers aren't serious players. I think for that price I can build a rail that is much better than what AE schmidt can provide in both playabilty and sturdiness. I want to use dowels or biscuits so I can do this again in 10 years and not dull my tool blades.

After building the rails I need to figure out how to beef up the frame to hold a decent level and these tables will be bad ass.

 

[Donny Wessels]

I do know that glen dowels his rails when building them..
Best of luck
I have confidence in you'
-
Rob.M

I plan on calling Glen if he doesn't chime in. He the one who inspired me to start building subrails on home tables, with that jaw dropping delmo rebuild.

 

[reverend]

I plan on calling Glen if he doesn't chime in. He the one who inspired me to start building subrails on home tables, with that jaw dropping delmo rebuild.

I did something similar with a peter vitalie table. I was converting it from the factory k66 to k55.

 

[Donny Wessels]

Dry clamp the bottom piece of poplar to the top. Drill 1/4" holes for dowels take it all apart and clean all the little wood scraps out. Glue it all up and clamp the hell out of it. If you are worried about glue squeeze out, just keep a damp rag handy after clamping and clean it all up. If you get it all it will not affect the next glue up. I did something similar with a peter vitalie table. I was converting it from the factory k66 to k55. The rail was not thick enough so I had to add wood to the bottom of the whole rail.

I could also put masking tape where I need the next piece to go

I've thought about doing this with the short rail tables, how did it work out?

 

[reverend]

It worked out really well.

 

[perfectpocketz]

It worked out really well. I put the rails through the planer upside down to clean off the bottom side and make a good gluing surface. I ended up putting 1/4" poplar on the bottom of them to raise it up. Then put the cloth relief back in, calibrated the height of the rail, and re-cut the front at the right angle.

After the pockets are tightened up and set at the correct angle, it plays just as good as a GC or Diamond, and looks real good doing it too.

Why don't you guys talk over the phone, you guys sound like Glen, acting like you have all the problems solved. All you are doing is telling the hacks what they need to take jobs from people that do know this kind of work.
You both need to learn how to put sub rails on the right way, and not over the net for everyone's hack business.
You don't need to shout from the roof tops like Glen says, you need to do the right job...everything else will fall in to place.

 

[Slate Billiards]

Can This thread be moved into a private forum please?

 

[Donny Wessels]

Why don't you guys talk over the phone, you guys sound like Glen, acting like you have all the problems solved. All you are doing is telling the hacks what they need to take jobs from people that do know this kind of work.
You both need to learn how to put sub rails on the right way, and not over the net for everyone's hack business.
You don't need to shout from the roof tops like Glen says, you need to do the right job...everything else will fall in to place.

I've talked to you many times on the phone and you've never been such a jerk. Why don't you practice what you preach and pick up the phone if you have something to say.

what wrong with the way I do subrails ? I saw your pictures, I was mostly impressed by what I saw.

 

[perfectpocketz]

I've talked to you many times on the phone and you've never been such a jerk. Why don't you practice what you preach and pick up the phone if you have something to say.

what wrong with the way I do subrails ? I saw your pictures, I was mostly impressed by what I saw.

Why didn't you pick up the phone...never turned you down before...your asking people to give tips on the net when your already a professional table mechanic....why would you take on a job..then ask people on the forum if they have any tips to do the job?

I posted under Revered's post with his tip from the school of Glen....and yes you both need to learn how to put sub-rails on the right way. Now if that makes me a Jerk...that's fine by me.....I'm not looking for a look at me...look what I can do.

When I have a question...I pick up the phone and call someone I think can help me...you guy's have and open line to Glen, Bobby, John, and myself when needed.

All I'm saying is why put this work out here when you don't have to?
I'm not going to keep on with this...there's no need...You asked what's wrong with your sub-rail work...so I'll tell you....that's nothing more than patch work over worm wood with crown staples.

I worked with Bobby DeTurk on sub-rails....get him to show his work....then maybe you won't call me a JERK. Now you need to know how to do the sub-rails....call Bobby

Mark Gregory

 

[matteroner]

Why don't you guys talk over the phone, you guys sound like Glen, acting like you have all the problems solved. All you are doing is telling the hacks what they need to take jobs from people that do know this kind of work.
You both need to learn how to put sub rails on the right way, and not over the net for everyone's hack business.
You don't need to shout from the roof tops like Glen says, you need to do the right job...everything else will fall in to place.

i doubt a hack will even attempt to do this work....it's too time consuming and has too steep of a learning curve. If I was a hack I would subcontract that work to you up-charge it and make a profit that way.....

 

[TheTablePro]

I agree with Mort that this probably should have been presented in the private mechanics forum. This thread is starting to look like a posturing display of arrogance and it just ain't necessary.....men!

I also agree with matteroner that if I didn't have the proper tooling to perform subrail replacement, I certainly wouldn't hack someones rails up and attempt it! For one, most of us couldn't afford to replace them.

 

[realkingcobra]

I've talked to you many times on the phone and you've never been such a jerk. Why don't you practice what you preach and pick up the phone if you have something to say.

what wrong with the way I do subrails ? I saw your pictures, I was mostly impressed by what I saw.

Donny...I don't mean to post in this thread, but I feel Mark is right. Part of the magic of showing repaired rails is the before and after pictures...not the "how do you do this" kind of pictures with questions in the open forum. I think you forget I've built over 500 home tables and over 100 coin-ops...so rebuilding the Delmo I did...was no challenge. We talked about you doing this kind of work, and I think I told you it was a little over your head as far as what kind of knowledge it would require to perform it. Did you have a plan to drill out the ends of the rails to mount the ears of the #6 pocket irons...along with the mounting bolts? I do think it was out of line to refer to Mark as jerk, when what he was doing was asking why you started with questions here, along with pictures first....before calling someone. You can do what ever you want to with these rails, build them new, repair them, or replace them...that's all up to you buddy....but I don't feel that AZ is going to provide you the source of information you're asking for....as I don't know of any table mechanics that build rails from scratch...when most table manufactures can't get it right at the factory level first. I would think you'd be more busy working on GC's...repairing the rails on them first....before you'd consider taking on the task of building, or attempting to build/manufacture....replacement rails for A.E. Schmidt pool tables

Glen

PS. Is this post any different than someone asking all the "how to's" on recovering their own bar tables....because they don't want to pay someone to come in and do the job?...just think about it

 

[Donny Wessels]

Donny...I don't mean to post in this thread, but I feel Mark is right. Part of the magic of showing repaired rails is the before and after pictures...not the "how do you do this" kind of pictures with questions in the open forum. I think you forget I've built over 500 home tables and over 100 coin-ops...so rebuilding the Delmo I did...was no challenge. We talked about you doing this kind of work, and I think I told you it was a little over your head as far as what kind of knowledge it would require to perform it. Did you have a plan to drill out the ends of the rails to mount the ears of the #6 pocket irons...along with the mounting bolts? I do think it was out of line to refer to Mark as jerk, when what he was doing was asking why you started with questions here, along with pictures first....before calling someone. You can do what ever you want to with these rails, build them new, repair them, or replace them...that's all up to you buddy....but I don't feel that AZ is going to provide you the source of information you're asking for....as I don't know of any table mechanics that build rails from scratch...when most table manufactures can't get it right at the factory level first. I would think you'd be more busy working on GC's...repairing the rails on them first....before you'd consider taking on the task of building, or attempting to build/manufacture....replacement rails for A.E. Schmidt pool tables

Glen

PS. Is this post any different than someone asking all the "how to's" on recovering their own bar tables....because they don't want to pay someone to come in and do the job?...just think about it

Its like this Glen, they give me a rail that looks like this.

they tell me to take it to the refinisher and put on new cushions. It just doesn't seem right to me to have the work done to this rail without repair. so I come up with this.

not sure this is going to work. I'm thinking perhaps I should go all the way and do the whole rail. this rail has a fixed bell shaped aprin, theres not alot of options.

 

[Donny Wessels]

Why didn't you pick up the phone...never turned you down before...your asking people to give tips on the net when your already a professional table mechanic....why would you take on a job..then ask people on the forum if they have any tips to do the job?

I posted under Revered's post with his tip from the school of Glen....and yes you both need to learn how to put sub-rails on the right way. Now if that makes me a Jerk...that's fine by me.....I'm not looking for a look at me...look what I can do.

When I have a question...I pick up the phone and call someone I think can help me...you guy's have and open line to Glen, Bobby, John, and myself when needed.

All I'm saying is why put this work out here when you don't have to?
I'm not going to keep on with this...there's no need...You asked what's wrong with your sub-rail work...so I'll tell you....that's nothing more than patch work over worm wood with crown staples.

I worked with Bobby DeTurk on sub-rails....get him to show his work....then maybe you won't call me a JERK. Now you need to know how to do the sub-rails....call Bobby

Mark Gregory

these are spare rails. I wouldn't take the job and cut them up if I wasn't sure I could complete it.

I would be sold on your method if it wasn't for the screws, I love the way you do the end of your rails, and switching the rail inserts to Diamond rail insert. I have my version of both of these. would you like to see pictures?

 

[perfectpocketz]

these are spare rails. I wouldn't take the job and cut them up if I wasn't sure I could complete it.

I would be sold on your method if it wasn't for the screws, I love the way you do the end of your rails, and switching the rail inserts to Diamond rail insert. I have my version of both of these. would you like to see pictures?

If you were sure you could do the job, then why ask on the forum for tips?

Look, I'm not trying to be ugly with you, but who did you think would help you on the forum when your already a top mechanic on the west coast?

I'm not against you putting your work on the forum...that's great for you....when you run in to something like that kind of work...email Glen, Bobby,John or Jay for help...then put your before and after pics up....nothing wrong with that.

I put screws in the GC table for more support and less clamp time...I clamp all my Antique table....but my joints are very strong....the way Bobby, John and I do them.

Without doubt you will finish the job...and that's how you learn and get better.....and in time you will. You can't learn if you don't try....it's not rocket science...it's a pool table.

Never will I say my way is 100 percent perfect....there's still a lot of things to be worked out....for right now I very happy the way I do sub-rails on any table....and believe me, I get a lot of great idea's from Bobby and John.....they are both very smart and knowledgeable guy's on any pool table.

John forgot more about pool tables than I know....there's a great guy you want to get info from..and Bobby's doing fantastic sub-rail work.
That's the best advice a JERK like me can give you...and good luck with the table.

It wouldn't be fair to not mention Glen and Jay as well....both are awesome table mechanic's and very intelligent people....that's a fact.

P.S. Glen get those billiard tables done or my next post may not be so nice.....LOL

Mark Gregory