Hoppe Rambow cues on ebay

cueaddicts said:
Agreed. The cue is definitely worth $1200 or in excess of that even....it's a neat old cue with a great story. Think Joe's point here is regarding the hyposcrisy of said authenticator. And from the sounds of it, the inside scoop on that is coming pretty soon.

I find this thread now very interesting, especially since it has direct ties to an older RSB thread regarding 'authentic Balabushkas'. Apparently if a Balabushka needs to be restored, that's a sin, but ah, if it's a Rambow, then it's ok if this authenticator gives it his blessing. Hmmm interesting....can't wait to see how this one turns out.

Sean

(either way, it's a neat old cue and I may just bid on it)

Whatever was said before I don't know, but my belief is that repairs and restorations to historic artifacts and antiques are just a fact of life and when done properly contain all the essence and spirit of the original.

The most famous painting in the world is at the Louvre and is mostly painted over. Is it still the Mona Lisa? The thousands who flock to see it each day certainly think so.

So, is the creation the paint residue lying on the canvas or the talent, concept, and physical strokes of the artist who applied it? This is what the term "conservator" means and thank god they fix them or we wouldn't have anything to look at but dust on the floor.

Chris
 
i tried 911 on the last 30 secs but was outbidded...sigh.. to think i woke up all night for it... and yes i lost to my old pal here.. i think he's got more rambows than the house cues u have in ur neighbourhood pool hall..

Bgrds
Raist
 
other rambows

i do know a little about rambows.....
here are 3 others I have......




3rambows.jpg






one purpleheart, one rosewood, other rosewood with ivory buttcap, signature, and stacked veneers above buttcap.
all verified by paul rubino.
(my icon is one of there points close up)
all shafts original. none made by someone else.

chris G
 
bogey54311 said:
i do know a little about rambows.....
here are 3 others I have......




3rambows.jpg






one purpleheart, one rosewood, other rosewood with ivory buttcap, signature, and stacked veneers above buttcap.
all verified by paul rubino.
(my icon is one of there points close up)
all shafts original. none made by someone else.

chris G

Chris,
Very nice set of Rambows....

Joe
 
cueman said:
Hi Deno,
I have only owned a couple of Rambows so I am not expert. I was told Rambow did not use blanks with the weight number stamped into them. Was that false information I received? Does that cue have the weight number stamped on it?
In the 1940s and 1950s it was rare to see a Rambow with a weight stamp. However, this was a time when he was making cues not for the masses, but rather for his best customers of the 3-cushion world. Once he started producing cues for the much more popular game of pool, he production took off and the quality suffered. Also, his relationship with Brunswick diminished as the years went on thus not allowing him choice blanks like the years shortly after his retirement from Brunswick.
Deno
 
Jeff said:
It can all be so confusing. 98% of the people looking at these cues (Rambos) don't have the knowledge to say these cues being advertised are "true" Rambos or not.

Here are two examples on e-bay right now. The price differences are staggering. Are both of these "true" Rambos?

http://cgi.ebay.com/OLD-RAMBOW-POOL-CUE-brunswick-titlist_W0QQitemZ7202022762QQ

http://cgi.ebay.com/Herman-Rambow-Pool-Billiard-s-Cue-Brunswick-Balke_W0QQitemZ7203293261QQ
Based on the pictures only, the first one appears to be a Hoppe Titlist (higher grade) that was most likely worked on by Rambow and he probably penciled the player's name on the forearm. Can it be considered an original by Rambow- no. Is it worth much more than a Hoppe Titlist because of the name on the forearm most likely put on there by Rambow- well, to me it is. I would have to look at the cue closely to see if Rambow put the player's name there or not.

The second cue appears to be an original. I would much rather collect the second one if I had to choose.

Deno
 
Here's the real problem and how those paragraphs are misrepresented- the Balabushka(s) that I referred to in the paragraphs that joe brought up were being sold as Balabushka cues...and then later in the description you found out that the cue was refinished...such that it didn't seem like a big deal. I found that to be unethical in simply calling the cues Balabushkas with a later note of them being refinished. I still have the same stance on this subject.

In the case of this (Rambow) cue, I have no control over how the seller listed the cue on ebay. I didn't even know he was selling it until I started to get emails about it. joe would like very much for me to prove a double standard here, but he fails to recognize that I am not the one selling it or promoting it. If he were to look at the appraisal, in the cue title section at the very top of the document I delivered, it reads : "Fully Restored Herman Rambow Custom Cue c.1962." See, the cue is exactly that- a cue that was once an original Rambow that was fully restored by someone else. I did not list it as a Rambow with a later footnote that oh...by the way...it has been completely restored but it's no big deal...which is not uncommon on Joe's web site- here's an example:
http://classiccues.com/cues/balabushka.htm

This one should read either "restored or fully restored Balabushka" not "Balabushka" with the very bottom note stating that the cue was refinished and rewrapped by Tascarella, especially considering the fact that this refinish and rewrap are the most important points to any serious collector.

Joe will have you believe that refinishing a cue is no big deal and it is what the public wants. Well, when was the last time anyone heard of a Balabushka being "on sale" like the one that is reduced in price above? If that cue was original, there would be no problem getting the asking price plus more for that cue. However, it sits there with the restoration of that cue as a small footnote rather than in the title of the cue where it belongs...in the same place I titled this Rambow as a "Fully Restored Herman Rambow Custom Cue c.1962." However, cue collectors (even newer ones) are learning what is important...hence the discount.

As far as more details about this Fully Restored Rambow Cue that is on Ebay, I looked up my notes and found the following:

Shafts- not original to the cue. Hercek can't remember if he made them or not. I don't think he did. I think they were made by someone else but I could not find out who made them.

Provenance- interestingly, someone name Mark Kulungian (isn't that Joe's partner?) brokered the deal of this cue from the second owner to the third owner and wrote a long letter (which Skip, the owner of the cue has) pitching the cue stick. Oh, by the way, here is my note on that letter:
"Finally, the third document is a letter from the cue dealer who brokered the sale between Lehmann and Ruehl. This letter should be kept simply for completeness, but is not important. There are several discrepancies in this letter including a claim that Lehmann “won the World Snooker Championships in back-to-back years…” which is not true (to the best of my research). The letter also states that the cue was made for Herbert Lehmann by Rambow, when in fact it was made for Lehmann’s uncle (per Lehmann’s letter) eight years prior to becoming the property of Herbert Lehmann. Rambow cues that belonged to important players are worth more money..." Now if Rambow cues that belonged to important players are worth more (which they are), isn't it interesting that this one, according to Mark's letter, was made for a guy who won the World Snooker Championship back to back...when in fact I can't find any record of that achievement by that player AND that player himself admits the cue was made for his uncle 8 years prior?

Finally, regarding the valuation of the cue. Typically when a cue is restored like this one, the value naturally goes down. However, when a cue maker like Hercek does a complete restoration (with restoration photos), it will probably add value to the cue ultimately (maybe not today) because of Joel's reputation as a master cue maker...not because the cue has been made near mint again. There will be collectors who will pay more for Joel's esoteric work including such restorations than they would for original Rambows, just because it is Joel's work, As a restored Rambow, I wouldn't pay a penny for it...but because the work was done by Joel, I am considering making a modest bid to add it to my Hercek collection.

Deno Andrews
 
classiccues said:
WOW what a STEAL. I am looking at the new Blue Book and it lists a 4 point Rambow starting at $ 3700 in 98% condition, maybe this was a little less, but then add $ 500.00 for the name on the forearm... - $450 for one shaft, but I am amazed at the difference in BB price vs actual market value on Rambows. According to the book this should have been between $ 1900 and $ 2,500 depending on condition.

Who says you can't get deals on ebay?!?!?

Joe
BTW, so everyone can see how joe likes to manipulate things: he says that Rambow's in the BB in 98% condition start at $3700, which is correct. What he fails to say is that basically there is no such thing. I have in my collection the most original and nearest to mint Rambow I have ever seen and I wouldn't say it was any more than 90%. That's a big different. 98% means that it is virtually mint, like brand new and original. Most Rambows without inlay on ebay are between 50% and 80% and sell for between $1500-$2500 on Ebay. The restored Rambow on there right now will almost certainly sell within that price range.

He also brings up a cue that I own that he claims is now worth $9500 according to the BB. Well, in fact, the cue that I own isn't even near 98% condition, which is the level it would have to be to be worth that. The cue that is in the picture is roughly 75% which would bring about half of the 98%/$9500 mark. If joe actually knew how to use the book properly maybe he wouldn't make such amateur mistakes.

And as far as accusing me of unethical auction practices, he can say what he wants because it is not true... If he could actually find someone who has EVER had even the hint of a bad transaction with me I would encourage that person to come forward.

This is all I have to say because frankly I don't have the time to nit around all day on newsgroups. If someone would believe what a guy like joe has to say (someone who likes to call people names and physically threaten and bully people on newsgroups) about my credibility, God bless them and keep them away from me, it is one less nit I have to deal with in my life.

Deno Andrews
 
Deno J. Andrews said:
BTW, so everyone can see how joe likes to manipulate things: he says that Rambow's in the BB in 98% condition start at $3700, which is correct. What he fails to say is that basically there is no such thing. I have in my collection the most original and nearest to mint Rambow I have ever seen and I wouldn't say it was any more than 90%. That's a big different. 98% means that it is virtually mint, like brand new and original. Most Rambows without inlay on ebay are between 50% and 80% and sell for between $1500-$2500 on Ebay. The restored Rambow on there right now will almost certainly sell within that price range.

He also brings up a cue that I own that he claims is now worth $9500 according to the BB. Well, in fact, the cue that I own isn't even near 98% condition, which is the level it would have to be to be worth that. The cue that is in the picture is roughly 75% which would bring about half of the 98%/$9500 mark. If joe actually knew how to use the book properly maybe he wouldn't make such amateur mistakes.

And as far as accusing me of unethical auction practices, he can say what he wants because it is not true... If he could actually find someone who has EVER had even the hint of a bad transaction with me I would encourage that person to come forward.

This is all I have to say because frankly I don't have the time to nit around all day on newsgroups. If someone would believe what a guy like joe has to say (someone who likes to call people names and physically threaten and bully people on newsgroups) about my credibility, God bless them and keep them away from me, it is one less nit I have to deal with in my life.

Deno Andrews
WOW!! Epic battle. D WAAAAY ahead on points. Fight should have been stopped last round. J needs KO to pull it out. SW301-93
 
Deno J. Andrews said:
Most Rambows without inlay on ebay are between 50% and 80% and sell for between $1500-$2500 on Ebay. The restored Rambow on there right now will almost certainly sell within that price range.

He also brings up a cue that I own that he claims is now worth $9500 according to the BB. Well, in fact, the cue that I own isn't even near 98% condition, which is the level it would have to be to be worth that. The cue that is in the picture is roughly 75% which would bring about half of the 98%/$9500 mark. If joe actually knew how to use the book properly maybe he wouldn't make such amateur mistakes.

And as far as accusing me of unethical auction practices, he can say what he wants because it is not true... If he could actually find someone who has EVER had even the hint of a bad transaction with me I would encourage that person to come forward.

This is all I have to say because frankly I don't have the time to nit around all day on newsgroups. If someone would believe what a guy like joe has to say (someone who likes to call people names and physically threaten and bully people on newsgroups) about my credibility, God bless them and keep them away from me, it is one less nit I have to deal with in my life.

Deno Andrews

First things first... Rambows generally sell in the lower 1's -1.2 this is just the way it is. Secondly the cue YOU own only got to 2600 or so with a SHILL bidder. So putting it in the book and saying its worth 4500 or so is wrong. Its worth 4500 to YOU, but in pricing for the blue book it was supposed to be what the market is showing. Whats even worse is you had market experience on this very cue and chose not to use it. Why? But not what YOU think your collection is worth. OR how you admire one cuemaker. So being able to use the blue book is not the issue, its the accuracy of the information contained by the book, and the accuracy of the prices submitted by people with agendas like yours are the problem. All of which are well documented thanks to google.

As far as the auction practices, its not only true but well documented from your cues to your posters. Your disdain for pool players and pool in general, your constantly I am getting out of this.. bla..bla..bla..

One other major question.. where in my posts before YOU posted did I mention you? Did I even hint that you were at fault? Its funny how you cannot answer a simple how / why question without having to bring other circumstances into the fray.

Joe
 
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Deno J. Andrews said:
Here's the real problem and how those paragraphs are misrepresented- the Balabushka(s) that I referred to in the paragraphs that joe brought up were being sold as Balabushka cues...and then later in the description you found out that the cue was refinished...such that it didn't seem like a big deal. I found that to be unethical in simply calling the cues Balabushkas with a later note of them being refinished. I still have the same stance on this subject.

In the case of this (Rambow) cue, I have no control over how the seller listed the cue on ebay. I didn't even know he was selling it until I started to get emails about it. joe would like very much for me to prove a double standard here, but he fails to recognize that I am not the one selling it or promoting it. If he were to look at the appraisal, in the cue title section at the very top of the document I delivered, it reads : "Fully Restored Herman Rambow Custom Cue c.1962." See, the cue is exactly that- a cue that was once an original Rambow that was fully restored by someone else. I did not list it as a Rambow with a later footnote that oh...by the way...it has been completely restored but it's no big deal...which is not uncommon on Joe's web site- here's an example:
http://classiccues.com/cues/balabushka.htm

This one should read either "restored or fully restored Balabushka" not "Balabushka" with the very bottom note stating that the cue was refinished and rewrapped by Tascarella, especially considering the fact that this refinish and rewrap are the most important points to any serious collector.

Joe will have you believe that refinishing a cue is no big deal and it is what the public wants. Well, when was the last time anyone heard of a Balabushka being "on sale" like the one that is reduced in price above? If that cue was original, there would be no problem getting the asking price plus more for that cue. However, it sits there with the restoration of that cue as a small footnote rather than in the title of the cue where it belongs...in the same place I titled this Rambow as a "Fully Restored Herman Rambow Custom Cue c.1962." However, cue collectors (even newer ones) are learning what is important...hence the discount.

As far as more details about this Fully Restored Rambow Cue that is on Ebay, I looked up my notes and found the following:

Shafts- not original to the cue. Hercek can't remember if he made them or not. I don't think he did. I think they were made by someone else but I could not find out who made them.

Provenance- interestingly, someone name Mark Kulungian (isn't that Joe's partner?) brokered the deal of this cue from the second owner to the third owner and wrote a long letter (which Skip, the owner of the cue has) pitching the cue stick. Oh, by the way, here is my note on that letter:
"Finally, the third document is a letter from the cue dealer who brokered the sale between Lehmann and Ruehl. This letter should be kept simply for completeness, but is not important. There are several discrepancies in this letter including a claim that Lehmann “won the World Snooker Championships in back-to-back years…” which is not true (to the best of my research). The letter also states that the cue was made for Herbert Lehmann by Rambow, when in fact it was made for Lehmann’s uncle (per Lehmann’s letter) eight years prior to becoming the property of Herbert Lehmann. Rambow cues that belonged to important players are worth more money..." Now if Rambow cues that belonged to important players are worth more (which they are), isn't it interesting that this one, according to Mark's letter, was made for a guy who won the World Snooker Championship back to back...when in fact I can't find any record of that achievement by that player AND that player himself admits the cue was made for his uncle 8 years prior?

Finally, regarding the valuation of the cue. Typically when a cue is restored like this one, the value naturally goes down. However, when a cue maker like Hercek does a complete restoration (with restoration photos), it will probably add value to the cue ultimately (maybe not today) because of Joel's reputation as a master cue maker...not because the cue has been made near mint again. There will be collectors who will pay more for Joel's esoteric work including such restorations than they would for original Rambows, just because it is Joel's work, As a restored Rambow, I wouldn't pay a penny for it...but because the work was done by Joel, I am considering making a modest bid to add it to my Hercek collection.

Deno Andrews

Deno,
Spinning quotes is not something you have mastered yet, so lets roll. You said that the cue we had in question couldn't even be called a Balabushka. But yet here is a cue that had MORE work done on it by a secondary cuemaker, yet you have no problem calling it a Rambow. I am asking, How and Why? The work done on the Bushka we had was done by Pete Taascarella. So cue maker to cuemaker, dead heat. You went out of your way to quote %'s and everything.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.billiard/browse_frm/thread/5b3981206c136670/5ab213c99289db59?lnk=st&q=restoration+group%3Arec.sport.billiard+author%3Adeno&rnum=2&hl=en#5ab213c99289db59

You don't have to answer because I know the answer already. Its ego driven and you need to justify certain things. But clearly in this arguement this Rambow wouldn't even qualify as a Rambow. Look at posts 103 and 104 in this arguement. Posted to you about changing a Rambow to a Bushka. The cue at auction clearly applies, yet you seem to forget about this. So "Fully Restored Herman Rambow Custom Cue c.1962" is ok in this case although you have stated things totally opposite from this view 100 times prior? I guess this is where the line from bystander and need to be an expert gets crossed. Your opinion or maybe your classification surely has changed.

BTW anyone attempting to read the google arguement, good luck.

Joe
 
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Joe, here's the deal:
Regarding the Balabushka argument- good luck. Everyone knows my stance on the topic. You sell restored Balabushkas and still title them Balabushka cues and later in a small note you happen to mention that they are refinished. That is unethical. I have always said that and I will always say that. The one you have on your site right now should be titled "Restored Balabushka." But like usual you will justify your own actions with your opinion about how refinishing cues is ok and it doesn't hurt the value (which is wrong by the way hence it being on sale or reduced).

The (Rambow) on Ebay was sent to me for authentication. Because it was sent to me it was sent back being titled a "Fully Restored Herman Rambow Cue c.1962." I have no control over the seller and how he titles it on Ebay. Basically, I have stuck to my beliefs and labeled a cue fully restored in its title. However, you still sell restored Balabushkas with the resoration being only a footnote.

As far as my disdain for people in the pool world, it is not pool players but rather people like you. Some of my best friends are pool players.

Before you try to accuse me of unethical practices, maybe you ought to clean up your own shop first and then worry about others.

Deno Andrews
 
Deno J. Andrews said:
....As a restored Rambow, I wouldn't pay a penny for it...but because the work was done by Joel, I am considering making a modest bid to add it to my Hercek collection.

Deno Andrews

Deno,

Then why do you write in this authentication letter that the cue is worth $2700-$3000? By your own logic, your letter should have been clearly titled something like "Titlist Conversion Cue - Formerly Rambow Redone By Hercek". This cue is reworked to the point where very little Rambow is left....

The description of classiccues' Bushka that you provided shows they clearly states that refinish/restoration work is done by Pete Tascarella. What's wrong with that? If the cue didn't need it, I'm sure they wouldn't have gotten Pete to do the work. :confused: Maybe if it came with a 9-page letter from you, it would be OK. What a joke.

I think we've got a new commercial....

~ authentic Balabushka offered by classiccues refinished by P.T. with one new shaft = $hit

~ 'restored' Rambow cue, replaced wrap and butt plate by Joel Hercek, 2 unknown new shafts, and Deno's blessing/documentation = priceless

P.S. For the record, I think that you stepped in your own pile of dog$hit here when this letter surfaced. Joe is doing nothing but pointing out the obvious.

Sean
 
Since I started this...

I wasn't intending to start a fray when I posted, so I apologize for that. The seller and I had had some heated exchanges that settled down. My position had been that he was fluffing up a very nice Hercek restoration as being an original Rambow, but was providing no evidence from Deno's provenance to support that. His responses seemed sincere, but he was stuck on saying that the opinion of the expert (Deno) should be enough.

So I brought it up on the board to see if others agreed it was a Rambow, and why. The answer seems to be: "because Deno says it is"...same thing the seller said.

In any case, Deno's board response satisfied me that it's a Rambow, and I appreciate his sharing a little information (but I would like more :))
 
Deno J. Andrews said:
Joe, here's the deal:
Regarding the Balabushka argument- good luck. Everyone knows my stance on the topic. You sell restored Balabushkas and still title them Balabushka cues and later in a small note you happen to mention that they are refinished. That is unethical. I have always said that and I will always say that. The one you have on your site right now should be titled "Restored Balabushka." But like usual you will justify your own actions with your opinion about how refinishing cues is ok and it doesn't hurt the value (which is wrong by the way hence it being on sale or reduced).

The (Rambow) on Ebay was sent to me for authentication. Because it was sent to me it was sent back being titled a "Fully Restored Herman Rambow Cue c.1962." I have no control over the seller and how he titles it on Ebay. Basically, I have stuck to my beliefs and labeled a cue fully restored in its title. However, you still sell restored Balabushkas with the resoration being only a footnote.

As far as my disdain for people in the pool world, it is not pool players but rather people like you. Some of my best friends are pool players.

Before you try to accuse me of unethical practices, maybe you ought to clean up your own shop first and then worry about others.

Deno Andrews

No, here is the deal.. Had this cue been anything but a Rambow you would have priced it at $ 300.00 regardless of who did the work. The fact of the matter is the criteria you used in the forementioned debate, you threw out the window for your own glorification. You didn't stick by your beliefs, you clearly said when faced with a similar situation that:

"The only thing that would have the Rambow vintage would be
the taper, which on the refinish would be slightly changed...so yes, in this
case you would have a Balabushka cue stick. I am assuming that the Rambow butt was also replaced. If not, you would have a Balabushka made from a previous Rambow with some artifact still in tact. It's not brain surgery Jimbo. There is nothing magical about it. If you have a cue that has ten components...purchased it from the original maker, and over the years replaced each of the ten components with someone else's work, it is
ludicrous to call it a cue of the original maker in the case of Bushkas that
were made from other blanks."

According to your criteria, the cue on ebay is a Hercek made from a Rambow with some artifacts in tact, which is how your authentification should have read. Right? Being the righteous unbiased cue afficienado you are.

I also asked you point blank... " What makes a Rambow a Rambow? "

You replied" Finish, joint construction, butt cap, wrap, shafts, tapers, and historical significance. I am sure I forgot a thing or two, but you get the message. This isn't brain surgery you know...well, I don't think you do."

The cue you authenticated has only the taper, and maybe the joint, remaining of all the things you listed. So again, you fail to follow your own criteria.

You also stated "At best with this example, you have a cue that has only 50-60% Balabushka and 50-40% other. At the very best, the cue is a consortium of sorts. Does the fact that it has a certain percentage of George's work still in it? Heck yes. Is it an original? heck no. "

Based on this and other parts of that thread, you clearly are looking the other way for this cue, and I can say all Rambows. So I will ask you again, if an all original Rambow in 70% gets $ 1500 (your number) HTF does a cue with no original shafts, refinished, replaced parts, rewrapped go for 2700-3000?

You need to look in the mirror pal..

We list the cues as restored, there is nothing unethical about it. If we hid the fact, then you might have a case.

Joe
 
cueaddicts said:
Deno,

Then why do you write in this authentication letter that the cue is worth $2700-$3000? By your own logic, your letter should have been clearly titled something like "Titlist Conversion Cue - Formerly Rambow Redone By Hercek". This cue is reworked to the point where very little Rambow is left....

The description of classiccues' Bushka that you provided shows they clearly states that refinish/restoration work is done by Pete Tascarella. What's wrong with that? If the cue didn't need it, I'm sure they wouldn't have gotten Pete to do the work. :confused: Maybe if it came with a 9-page letter from you, it would be OK. What a joke.

I think we've got a new commercial....

~ authentic Balabushka offered by classiccues refinished by P.T. with one new shaft = $hit

~ 'restored' Rambow cue, replaced wrap and butt plate by Joel Hercek, 2 unknown new shafts, and Deno's blessing/documentation = priceless

P.S. For the record, I think that you stepped in your own pile of dog$hit here when this letter surfaced. Joe is doing nothing but pointing out the obvious.

Sean

Sean,
The difference is now he is no longer qualifying himself as a bystander. This is the big problem, you want the attention and you got it. Now you need to answer for it. This is the one big reason I stand steadfast in what I post and say.

Joe
 
Sean,

You said "your letter should have been clearly titled something like "Titlist Conversion Cue - Formerly Rambow Redone By Hercek". This cue is reworked to the point where very little Rambow is left.... "

You are exactly correct and that is exactly what my appraisal details. By the way, in the world of antiques and appraisals, all of that is what "Fully Restored" typically means. Any intelligent person who reads that knows that there is little if any at all originality left to the cue or any antique that is "Fully Restored," especially when they read in my appraisal that the cue has been brought to "non original status." When I do an appraisal, I don't use pool room language; I use appraisal language. If the owners are interested in a pool room assessment, they can take the cues to the pool room and save the $300 I charge.

As far as Joe's restored Balabushka, if the cue really needed to be restored, fine I guess. However, if it was restored it should be titled a restored Balabushka plain and simple. It is not. As far as the cue's value, I am not the one who has it reduced. I never said that a restored Balabushka was worthless...just worth less than a like original. Joe has so nicely proven that point for me despite the fact he has argued the contrary in the past.

Finally, when buying and selling, things rarely ever get bought or sold at their true value. It is not uncommon for someone to pick up something cheap that is not popular right now or to pay way too much for something that is. I have paid double what something is "worth" in order to complete a sector of my collection or to complete a set of something. And I have bought stuff on ebay at 10% of its value and turned them around for a profit. When you do an appraisal you valuate the cue based on what it would cost to replace the cue or one just like it. When it comes to this cue, it is a fully restored Rambow with work done by Joel Hercek. Pretend that this cue was stolen. If the owner wanted to replace this piece with a piece like it with similar traits...meaning a fully restored Rambow with the work done by one of the greatest cue makers ever, you can be assured that you are not going to find another like it for much less than my valuation.

Deno
 
If you read the appraisal, you would learn why and answer your own question.

your question:
"Based on this and other parts of that thread, you clearly are looking the other way for this cue, and I can say all Rambows. So I will ask you again, if an all original Rambow in 70% gets $ 1500 (your number) HTF does a cue with no original shafts, refinished, replaced parts, rewrapped go for 2700-3000?"
 
classiccues said:
Sean,
The difference is now he is no longer qualifying himself as a bystander. This is the big problem, you want the attention and you got it. Now you need to answer for it. This is the one big reason I stand steadfast in what I post and say.

Joe
you do a very good job of not answering questions directly or in detail that way you can't be pinned to any particular answer!
i dont think it's very hard to stand behind those type posts joe!
 
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