Hoppe Rambow cues on ebay

Jeff said:
It can all be so confusing. 98% of the people looking at these cues (Rambos) don't have the knowledge to say these cues being advertised are "true" Rambos or not.

Here are two examples on e-bay right now. The price differences are staggering. Are both of these "true" Rambos?

http://cgi.ebay.com/OLD-RAMBOW-POOL-CUE-brunswick-titlist_W0QQitemZ7202022762QQ

http://cgi.ebay.com/Herman-Rambow-Pool-Billiard-s-Cue-Brunswick-Balke_W0QQitemZ7203293261QQ
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Jeff,

No question on the one with the ivory buttcap - it's a Rambow and that's a nice cue. It's worth at least the money and more. I would buy it but I just picked up one just like it.

Mine has a better inscription on the forearm - this one has worn quite a bit but it's still readable. It needs a clear coat to protect it. For all you "refuse to refinish" guys , at least protect the cue from the elements and inscriptions please!

The one Bogey has is a Brunswick employed Rambow and needs authentication. Looks good to me.

Many of what you see claimed to be Rambow are Hoppe conversions, and if they have no history or inscription that can be checked for authenticity, beware. Some of these conversions are awfully nice cues and are worth decent money on that basis but not as a historic collectible.

Chris
 
runscott said:
I've seen a number of Hoppe's described as original "Rambow"s lately. My understanding was that the only way to distinguish a Hoppe from a Rambow Hoppe is that the percentage chance of it being Rambow-made increases if the points were made from an exotic wood such as ebony. Here's a recent ebay example that seems to go to extra lengths to convince us that it's a Rambow. Does it have merit?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7202926657
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The shafts look brand new, I wonder if Joel made them or they are original.

Joe
 
classiccues said:
The shafts look brand new, I wonder if Joel made them or they are original.

Joe
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I wondered the same thing, but my understanding is that Joel paid special attention to restoring, rather than rebuilding. Also, Deno referred to the condition of the Rambow rather than the improved result of Hercek's restoration, so it sounds like Joel might not have had much to do to it to bring it back to its current condition.

It also sounds like while many ebayers refer to Hoppe's as Rambows that are not, there might also be a bunch out there that are sold as generic Hoppe's that were actually built by Rambow. It also sound like the only way to really tell is to actually send photos to Deno - I certainly believe it when he says it's a Rambow, but I still don't know enough to identify one on my own.
 
runscott said:
I wondered the same thing, but my understanding is that Joel paid special attention to restoring, rather than rebuilding. Also, Deno referred to the condition of the Rambow rather than the improved result of Hercek's restoration, so it sounds like Joel might not have had much to do to it to bring it back to its current condition.

It also sounds like while many ebayers refer to Hoppe's as Rambows that are not, there might also be a bunch out there that are sold as generic Hoppe's that were actually built by Rambow. It also sound like the only way to really tell is to actually send photos to Deno - I certainly believe it when he says it's a Rambow, but I still don't know enough to identify one on my own.
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Well herein lies the problem. Joel replaced the ring (probably the black buttcap), the wrap, finish etc.. so at what point does the cue cease to be a Rambow? I mean if they are two new shafts, what do you really have?

See RS, this was said to me not long ago..

"And with regard to the occasional cue that IS so bad off, with no finish, with no wrap, cracked butt cap, etc. Sure, restore the cue...but don't dare call it a Balabushka because it is not one anymore. In the end, I don't care what you have done to cues as I do not own them. But advertising restorations by calling them by a name that once was true but is no longer is using that name to sell something that is no longer what it may appear to be by the unsuspecting eye."

and this...

"He gave those cues to some very talented cue makers. But they are no longer originals after enough work. One of the cues there is still called a Balabushka...but has new shafts, refinished and re wrapped by another cue maker. Basically, it is not a Balabushka any longer. There are still components there from Balabushka...but at least 60% of what made the cue a Balabushka is gone forever. It is not an original...and anyone who would buy such a thing thinking it is authentic or original...or ever really a Balabushka, is not very bright"

So all things being equal, do we still have a Rambow and if so why, or should I say why the double standard?

Joe (---goose.. gander.. google.. in play...
 
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classiccues said:
Well herein lies the problem. Joel replaced the ring (probably the black buttcap), the wrap, finish etc.. so at what point does the cue cease to be a Rambow? I mean if they are two new shafts, what do you really have?

Joe (---goose.. gander.. google.. in play...
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A Joel Hercek conversion cue for $1200.
 
classiccues said:
Well reading the paragraphs I wrote, what do you think that person would call this Rambow at auction?

Joe
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I feel exactly the same way.

I am bidding because of the Hercek work and the Deno research, plus I am intrigued by the depth at which Hercek delved into the cue restoration covered by reading both Deno's post and the ad.

I find the manuscript to be a big attraction - and the cue comes with it. In some ways, the cue has became more interesting to me than a fairly common Hoppe Rambow.

But with the new ivory and the leather, the shafts - this is not much of a Rambow anymore.

Chris
 
TATE said:
I feel exactly the same way.

I am bidding because of the Hercek work and the Deno research, plus I am intrigued by the depth at which Hercek delved into the cue restoration covered by reading both Deno's post and the ad.

I find the manuscript to be a big attraction - and the cue comes with it. In some ways, the cue has became more interesting to me than a fairly common Hoppe Rambow.

But with the new ivory and the leather, the shafts - this is not much of a Rambow anymore.

Chris
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So you think the person that told me the above would feel that its not a Rambow, right? Joe
 
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classiccues said:
So you think the person that told me the above would feel that its not a Rambow, right? Joe
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If you're talking about me, then I think it's a Rambow restoration by Joel Hercek. I can't speak for Deno.

Chris
 
TATE said:
If you're talking about me, then I think it's a Rambow restoration by Joel Hercek. I can't speak for Deno.

Chris
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Following is the line in the auction description that got me to wondering what was in the 5-6 page letter of "provence" (a beautiful area in France where documentation of rare antiques is created), what clues left by Hercek in the restored cue were used by Deno Andrews to determine that it was a Rambow, and the state of the cue when it was given to Hercek,i.e-how does "original" status differ from "not-original" status in terms of restoration?

"Rambow cues in near mint condition like this cue are rare and most always demand a Premium. The fact that the cue has been completely restored to not-original status does not at this time detract much from the value..."
 
IMO, either way this particular cue is worth the money. If is a Rambow in this condition, certainly. If it is a Titlist or Rambow conversion by Joel Hercek, certainly.....the fact that is apparently has a nice provenance can only add to it's long term value and collectibility.
 
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runscott said:
Following is the line in the auction description that got me to wondering what was in the 5-6 page letter of "provence" (a beautiful area in France where documentation of rare antiques is created), what clues left by Hercek in the restored cue were used by Deno Andrews to determine that it was a Rambow, and the state of the cue when it was given to Hercek,i.e-how does "original" status differ from "not-original" status in terms of restoration?

"Rambow cues in near mint condition like this cue are rare and most always demand a Premium. The fact that the cue has been completely restored to not-original status does not at this time detract much from the value..."
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I can see both sides of the equasion. One argument is that the cue is no longer a Rambow because it's been re-worked pretty extensively. The other is that it's not a Hercek because he didn't re-work it enough.

I hate to be the one to say it, but the cue would have been worth a lot more money in today's market as a full-on Hercek conversion "Tribute to Herman, Made by Hercek" in Joel's handwriting on the forearm ;)

I like it the way it is just fine - a restored Rambow by Joel Hercek. It's an interesting cue and quite attractive too. I wonder what it will go for? I guarantee not $1200.

Chris
 
Bamacues said:
IMO, either way this particular cue is worth the money. If is a Rambow in this condition, certainly. If it is a Titlist or Rambow conversion by Joel Hercek, certainly.....the fact that is apparently has a nice provenance can only add to it's long term value and collectibility.
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Agreed. The cue is definitely worth $1200 or in excess of that even....it's a neat old cue with a great story. Think Joe's point here is regarding the hyposcrisy of said authenticator. And from the sounds of it, the inside scoop on that is coming pretty soon.

I find this thread now very interesting, especially since it has direct ties to an older RSB thread regarding 'authentic Balabushkas'. Apparently if a Balabushka needs to be restored, that's a sin, but ah, if it's a Rambow, then it's ok if this authenticator gives it his blessing. Hmmm interesting....can't wait to see how this one turns out.

Sean

(either way, it's a neat old cue and I may just bid on it)
 
cueaddicts said:
I find this thread now very interesting, especially since it has direct ties to an older RSB thread regarding 'authentic Balabushkas'. Apparently if a Balabushka needs to be restored, that's a sin, but ah, if it's a Rambow, then it's ok if this authenticator gives it his blessing. Hmmm interesting....can't wait to see how this one turns out.

Sean

(either way, it's a neat old cue and I may just bid on it)
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The sin is not in the restoration of a Bushka, but calling it a Bushka afterwards. The cue in the original debate in 2003 had LESS work done on it than this cue. So why the turn around?

But then again a cue that was put up for auction in 2003 was bidded to 2600 (by a shill) but now is worth 9500 clear in the new blue book.

Joe
 
bogey54311 said:
rambow made cues for so many years, and there a so many different examples of them. if you have the 2nd editon of the bluebook, look at the table of cues with busted linen wraps. 26 1/2's, hoppes, titlists, no veneered brunswicks, etc......
they were ALL worked on and customized and made by rambow.
they were not all just the cookie cutter, titlist conversion looking cues.

chris
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7202022762&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEDW%3AIT&rd=1


Rick got it. 4 bids in the last 10 seconds. He's going to have to move to a state large enough to accommodate his collection. I bid $825 but it wasn't enough to register.
 
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TATE said:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7202022762&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEDW%3AIT&rd=1


Rick got it. He's going to have to move to a state large enough to accommodate his collection. I bid $825 but it wasn't enough to register.
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WOW what a STEAL. I am looking at the new Blue Book and it lists a 4 point Rambow starting at $ 3700 in 98% condition, maybe this was a little less, but then add $ 500.00 for the name on the forearm... - $450 for one shaft, but I am amazed at the difference in BB price vs actual market value on Rambows. According to the book this should have been between $ 1900 and $ 2,500 depending on condition.

Who says you can't get deals on ebay?!?!?

Joe
 
Joe,If I called you and asked you to look at auction would you have advised me that this was indeed a Rambow?
 
SPINTHEBALL said:
Joe,If I called you and asked you to look at auction would you have advised me that this was indeed a Rambow?
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STB,

I am not the Rambow expert. But I liked it.

Plus the pics were bad (sorry Bogey), it was hard to see. The signature looked good, but I have only seen about 10-15 Rambow signatures, so WTF do I know.

To answer your question truthfully, I would have helped you if we didn't have an intention to buy it.

Joe
 
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