Houston legends

Hungarian said:
I was at a big tourney at Playoffs right around the time that it came out that Joe Rocha’s illness had turned for the worse and that it was essentially terminal. Joe played in the event and it was amazing. It was like God was swinging his cue. Never missed a ball, running out from no where, tough banks, 2 railers, 3 railers, kicks, safeties. It was something else. The place was packed, people were gathered around 20 deep. It was electric. He won that event then soon later passed on. RIP Joe Rocha
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Thanks for the reply. It's good to know that he went out a champion.
 
Cue Stick said:
Thanks for your reply. It's great to hear from someone with first-hand knowledge. I paid my $5 but I was too tired to keep my eyes open. I heard later that they had to off the bet because it got too late and both of them had to play in the tournament next day. It's good to know what really happened. Efren was great in the tournament. From what I heard about his winnings in the back room, I thought they won a lot more than $50,000, but you would know better than I. I got there Tuesday, and Misty told me to bet on him as soon as I walked in the door. When I started watching him I could see how good he was. I could tell he was letting some of the players win a couple of games. I don't know whether it was to spare their feelings or to keep everybody from knowing just how good he was. I kept hearing people talking him down, even some of the pro's (especially Earl). I think it was ego and bigotry that wouldn't let them believe what they were seeing.

I didn't know about Greg Stevens. Did he ever match up with Gabby?
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Gabby needed weight from Greg Stevens when both were at their best. Maybe after being up for two to three days Stevens was vulnerable to a player like Gabby.

P.S. I played Gabby once in my poolroom in Bakersfield. I played good, he played better, beating me for a couple hundred at 20 a game before I quit. He never spoke a word in a few hours of play, unless it was absolutely necessary. And that's why they called him Gabby!
 
Hungarian said:
What about Duke? I met Duke after his hay day at the Cue and Cushion. Great one pocket player. What about Chinese Billy. Greatest beer drinking player. He could drink 30 beers and play great. Do you remember Isa Ankar, the Palestinian table mechanic? Super nice guy. He told me he was the guy who set up and took care of the tables at LeCue. Never was there, before my time. I think it was downtown and upstairs with a view.
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Don't remember Duke or Chinese Billy or Isa Ankar, but I wasn't from Houston so I only went to LeCue a few times. It was upstairs, but when I was going there wasn't any view.
 
Hungarian said:
Red had a strong bullshit game. Guy told some funny stories and had tons of sayings and clichés. He could explain why he shot, what he shot, when he shot it and how he shot it. Was a good teacher and very funny.
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I think it was Jersey that used to say "Keep them laughing and keep them broke". He played an exihibition game of one-pocket against one of our local players once. After our player made a pretty good safety break, Jersey looked at the rack and said "Do you want to play another one?". There was a ball near the end rail that he banked off the side rail into the bottom of the rack, where it caromed of another ball and went into his pocket. Of course he won the game.
 
garczar said:
Kinda sad that the current crop of players has no clue how cool pool used to be.
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Eh... I agree "to a certain point". Watching the big gambling matches and being around big personalities was cool for sure...

But it's been pretty cool living here in Germany where my club is seen as a "community", whose goal is to collectively improve enough to advance against other clubs, as well..

You don't get that in American pool halls, where the end goal is for each individual to win as much money as they can, however they can.

It's a tradeoff. One of these two models is sustainable in a world where everyone has a cellphone, and everyone can get clocked in minutes. One is not.

The thing of it is.... The road player was only feasible in America so long as the cost of living was cheap. Certain choices we have made as a society have basically ended that. Nothing is cheap any more. Not homes. Not cars. Not basic necessities. Pool in America is DOA if we continue to try to hold on to the hustling mentality...
 
mnorwood said:
I have been living in Houston for almost 20 years. What strikes me about it is in a place this big you have a bunch of players from 650 to 750 maybe Fargo says different. There are hundreds of dive bars with valleys which has created a landscape where you have really high speed valley box players. You would think this would have created more 800 plus players but it hasn’t. I think it’s the nature of peoples involvement with the game. They like it enough to be short stop speed but also have a regular good paying job they don’t let go of so they never reach the highest level of play.
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This is not a "Houston" thing.. This is an "America" thing. And I am gonna have to make a note on your "bunch" of players 650-750 claim, re: Houston. There is a huge gulf in between 650 and 750, and America as a whole has less than 45 players above Fargorate 750, and many of them are no longer really active. 650-700 isn't anything really special, to call a spade a spade. I am part of a fairly small club here in Germany, and we have three 650+ players. In the region/ Prolly around 20-30. And it is not an especially populated area I live in. Mostly farmland.

Cost of Living in America has gotten so outrageous, that there's just not a lot of money floating around to support a niche game like pool. There are very few options for a young talented player to economically participate in the game, without either being affluent enough to own a table, or living close to a pool hall, and being first allowed in.. And second, being able to afford the table time. Pool in America is COMPLETELY built off of access to pool halls. Pool in Europe is built almost EXCLUSIVELY on private clubs with all the pool you could possibly pay for about 40 Euros a month. And that includes league membership/fees. And a key to the club, so you can play 24 hours a day.

And America, for better or worse, has tied the development of young players.. To gambling. If there's no money for the "regular Joes" in the economy to piss off a few hundred without it super negatively affecting their finances, then less people are gonna gamble. The best times for pool in America were during WWII, where a bunch of G.I. had a lot of money to burn, shipping out through Norfolk, and willing to gamble that money, as they didn't know if they were gonna survive to spend it. Almost all the great gamblers you have heard of in pool came out of that era of easy money.

In Germany.. Pool isn't like that. Pool Clubs operate in a "Bundesliga" system, and welcome young players with open arms. Clubs compete to move up in the Liga system, and as such, all the members of a specific club work collectively to help each other improve. There is a national youth training program, funded by a portion of the yearly league dues each member of a club pays. This youth program identifies players such as Filler when they are still preteens, and then the Germans do what the Germans do, and apply systems, fundamentals, to get these young players off to a good start.

Now.. Think about how players such as Billy Thorpe and Skylar Woodward got started. They showed some talent.. Hit 750+ Fargorate level... Gambled and soaked up all the easy money they could.. And then, and ONLY then, once they got through all the easy money.. Did they begin to take the game REALLY seriously, and try to compete with the big boys. By that point.. All the little idiosyncrasies in their stroke/game were baked in. These same flaws hold them back still on the world stage.

Filler was competing in Eurotour events when he was like 11 or 12. He's had world-renowned coaches helping him with his stroke/game from before he was 10 years old. This is what happens when you are raised in a country where gambling is simply not a priority.
 
Hungarian said:
I virtually lived at Rack and Roll when I first started gambling when I was 14. I lived in Alief. I used to lose my lunch money to an olt timer named Mel. Sallys BBQ was very good.

Wonder what happened to North Side Mike. Very cool dude.

I know all these spots and people.

Eugene great bar box player

Lizard from Dallas known more for One Pocket.
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Browning came to our room in VA for a while and took some beatings.

But damn did he get better after that first couple weeks!

To this date, I've never seen anyone play better pool, and he did it for DAYS. His mix was scary.

I think I still have his $50, lol.
 
Hungarian said:
Johnny was a gun fighter, Ringo was a fitting name. I hung out with him and played some with him at the Cue and Cushion. He taught me how to break aiming straight onto the second ball. He'd come in with Jerry Bento for the card game. Super nice guy. People pulled for him. He won a big tourney at Legends, I think beating Jeremy in the finals. They found him dead in the hotel room the next day. Sad ending to a great player. RIP Johnny
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I didn't know Jeremy has such a strong desire to win.

Glad to find that out for free.
 
ShortBusRuss said:
Eh... I agree "to a certain point". Watching the big gambling matches and being around big personalities was cool for sure...

But it's been pretty cool living here in Germany where my club is seen as a "community", whose goal is to collectively improve enough to advance against other clubs, as well..

You don't get that in American pool halls, where the end goal is for each individual to win as much money as they can, however they can.

It's a tradeoff. One of these two models is sustainable in a world where everyone has a cellphone, and everyone can get clocked in minutes. One is not.

The thing of it is.... The road player was only feasible in America so long as the cost of living was cheap. Certain choices we have made as a society have basically ended that. Nothing is cheap any more. Not homes. Not cars. Not basic necessities. Pool in America is DOA if we continue to try to hold on to the hustling mentality...
Click to expand...
When i was first into pool there was no euro-pool and even if there was no one gave a shit. The pool scene was dominated by action with tournaments usually held to get the action going. It was a glorious time and fun as hell. Quality of play is for sure higher today but i'm still REAL glad i was around it before this sterile/robotic form of the game took over.
 
I got a really good idea...
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ShortBusRuss said:
Eh... I agree "to a certain point". Watching the big gambling matches and being around big personalities was cool for sure...

But it's been pretty cool living here in Germany where my club is seen as a "community", whose goal is to collectively improve enough to advance against other clubs, as well..

You don't get that in American pool halls, where the end goal is for each individual to win as much money as they can, however they can.

It's a tradeoff. One of these two models is sustainable in a world where everyone has a cellphone, and everyone can get clocked in minutes. One is not.

The thing of it is.... The road player was only feasible in America so long as the cost of living was cheap. Certain choices we have made as a society have basically ended that. Nothing is cheap any more. Not homes. Not cars. Not basic necessities. Pool in America is DOA if we continue to try to hold on to the hustling mentality...
Click to expand...

ShortBusRuss said:
This is not a "Houston" thing.. This is an "America" thing. And I am gonna have to make a note on your "bunch" of players 650-750 claim, re: Houston. There is a huge gulf in between 650 and 750, and America as a whole has less than 45 players above Fargorate 750, and many of them are no longer really active. 650-700 isn't anything really special, to call a spade a spade. I am part of a fairly small club here in Germany, and we have three 650+ players. In the region/ Prolly around 20-30. And it is not an especially populated area I live in. Mostly farmland.

Cost of Living in America has gotten so outrageous, that there's just not a lot of money floating around to support a niche game like pool. There are very few options for a young talented player to economically participate in the game, without either being affluent enough to own a table, or living close to a pool hall, and being first allowed in.. And second, being able to afford the table time. Pool in America is COMPLETELY built off of access to pool halls. Pool in Europe is built almost EXCLUSIVELY on private clubs with all the pool you could possibly pay for about 40 Euros a month. And that includes league membership/fees. And a key to the club, so you can play 24 hours a day.

And America, for better or worse, has tied the development of young players.. To gambling. If there's no money for the "regular Joes" in the economy to piss off a few hundred without it super negatively affecting their finances, then less people are gonna gamble. The best times for pool in America were during WWII, where a bunch of G.I. had a lot of money to burn, shipping out through Norfolk, and willing to gamble that money, as they didn't know if they were gonna survive to spend it. Almost all the great gamblers you have heard of in pool came out of that era of easy money.

In Germany.. Pool isn't like that. Pool Clubs operate in a "Bundesliga" system, and welcome young players with open arms. Clubs compete to move up in the Liga system, and as such, all the members of a specific club work collectively to help each other improve. There is a national youth training program, funded by a portion of the yearly league dues each member of a club pays. This youth program identifies players such as Filler when they are still preteens, and then the Germans do what the Germans do, and apply systems, fundamentals, to get these young players off to a good start.

Now.. Think about how players such as Billy Thorpe and Skylar Woodward got started. They showed some talent.. Hit 750+ Fargorate level... Gambled and soaked up all the easy money they could.. And then, and ONLY then, once they got through all the easy money.. Did they begin to take the game REALLY seriously, and try to compete with the big boys. By that point.. All the little idiosyncrasies in their stroke/game were baked in. These same flaws hold them back still on the world stage.

Filler was competing in Eurotour events when he was like 11 or 12. He's had world-renowned coaches helping him with his stroke/game from before he was 10 years old. This is what happens when you are raised in a country where gambling is simply not a priority.
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Let’s say you are right….why is it that way in Europe particularly with the private clubs and player development?
what has to happen for this to be true in America? Thx in advance for your thoughts
 
garczar said:
When i was first into pool there was no euro-pool and even if there was no one gave a shit. The pool scene was dominated by action with tournaments usually held to get the action going. It was a glorious time and fun as hell. Quality of play is for sure higher today but i'm still REAL glad i was around it before this sterile/robotic form of the game took over.
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Me 2!
 
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