how are ya'll doing in league ?
- Thread starter lorider
- Start date
As mentioned previously, winning a game with high effective innings (innings - defense) will result in the innings being capped for the purposes of the skill level calculation. The cap depends on your skill level, but will eventually result in you going up.
Also, if you're saying that the innings are high because of unfortunate leaves, maybe your scorekeepers aren't correctly marking some shots as defense. APA score keeping rules require marking any shot where the intent is not to make a ball as defense. It's a judgement call on the part of the scorekeeper in some cases, but most of the kick shots I've seen in league play are just an attempt to hit a ball so your opponent doesn't get ball in hand, so those should be marked as defense,
Finally, if you're beating players under your skill level, it might be that you shouldn't be ranked any higher. The intent of the handicap system is to give lower skill level players a chance against the higher skill levels, but the higher ranked player usually still has the advantage if the ranks are accurate. Start playing against higher ranked players and you'll probably find that games only go beyond a couple innings if there is a defensive battle.
I don't completely agree with your second paragraph . What you are suggesting is a two way call..... If the player kicks at a ball and it falls its an offensive shot. if nothing falls its a defensive shot. It is the intent of a shot that defines an offensive or defensive shot ...not the result after the shot.
I viewed the video quite a while back....probably need a refresher course lol. Anyway the video stated that on particular shots such as kicks...banks etc you can judge the intent of the shot by how hard they hit it. If they hit it hard enough to possibly pocket a ball somewhere it would be an offensive shot...it they are hitting lightly just hoping to make contact and hit a rail it would be defense.
Sorry I wasn't clear. When I said "most of the kick shots I've seen in league play are just an attempt to hit a ball so your opponent doesn't get ball in hand, so those should be marked as defense", I meant that those particular kick shots should be marked as defense, not all kick shots.
If they make a ball attempting to play defense in any situation, you don't mark it as defense, so the intent doesn't matter in that scenario. It's deciding whether a kick is an honest/realistic attempt to make a ball that can be tough to call. My contention is that most kick attempts at a ball that isn't hanging in a pocket are more about making a good hit, thereby defending against giving up BIH, than they are about making the ball. That's usually true even at a higher skill levels; the difference is the degree of cue ball control.
At higher levels of play, you might be able to discern the intent of the shot by the speed in a lot of cases, but for lower skill levels, the speed usually has more to do with their lack of control or preferred kicking speed that it does with whether they are truly making an attempt to pocket a ball.
In any case, I'm not implying that it's illegal to consider wild kick shots offense; I'm just saying that my bar for an offensive shot is considerably higher than "it might go in somewhere".
This is my take, and it doesn't agree with the APA's opinion...or yours really. If I am kicking at a ball, I am doing so because I have no other choice on the table. So, I am kicking at a ball as to NOT give my opponent ball-in-hand, period. I am not playing a safety and I am not attempting to make a shot. Anybody that has played pool for very long knows that ball-in-hand is a powerful offensive weapon and giving an opponent ball-in-hand might mean you not getting back to the table.
With that said, I don't consider a kick (with no other choice) an offensive nor defensive shot....just one played as an act of survival. There is definitely a gray line concerning this matter.
If someone held a gun to my head and forced me to decide between a kick being a defensive or offensive shot, this is the opinion I would lean toward.
Maniac
Agreed :thumbup:
That bad huh ?
Lost to a 4, was playing well, but thought I would play a safety on my last ball before the 8 overdrew it 2.5 inches and that was enough to give up the match...just silliness.
Was kinda pissed off about it so when my retarded captain came over after my loss to ask me even more questions about the phone app that he is too stupid to understand I shot him a "not even thinking of talking to your stupid butt" glance...so he then kicked me off the team, will find another team but that is probably my last update for a little bit.
Need to be on a team with a smarter captain anyway.
Darn...you did have a bad night.. Yea I have sold out playing safes by getting outa shape by a couple inches one way or the other. Its a real bummer.
Your story about your captain reminded me about my first captain. He was a 4 also and I got tired of his shenanigans and quit at the end of the session. When I told my teammates I was quitting they asked what I was gonna do. I said dunno...look for another team I guess. 3 others decided to quit also and asked if we all could out a team together with me as captain. I have been the captain ever since. I even started a couple more teams in other sessions but cut back a little because it was just too much.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
Thanks for clarifying and I agree with you on all you posted here.
The wild kick shots are a tough call and are the type shots I was referring to in my other post to you. I love how maniac described it...just trying to survive ..lol.
I just don't see marking a defense on a desperation shot when nothing falls and then not marking it on the same type shot when they slop something in.
The intent is the same on both shots...avoid giving bih. What are you gonna do ? Mark it safe when nothing falls and call it offense when they luck something in ? You really can't call it defense when they luck something in and continue shooting as the intent to avoid giving bih in both instances although the results if the shot are different.
That is why I mentioned you cant let the outcome of a desperation shot be the defining factor of calling offense or defense.
Thank you, for both compliments. Its a lot of fun with Ra because of his energy. And this sport needs more energy.
From the template side, I had six breaks with the template, and I saw the 1-ball every time, with four clean looks at a B&R, of which I converted two. I of course berated myself, so I need to stop doing that (the berating, not the B&Rs).
My new teammate..., she pitched a shutout against one of the top ranked players in our area, and she had a couple of B&Rs also. It’s awful nice to have a teammate that can run a rack beautifully.
I agree that it's a bit of a conundrum when the outcome doesn't match the intent of a shot, but I think that making a ball shooting a (mostly) defensive shot doesn't fall under the APA description of a defensive shot: "A Defensive Shot is a shot where the shooter deliberately misses so as to pass his turn at the table to his opponent." Since the shooter stays at the table, you wouldn't mark a defensive shot in that scenario.
Still, the question of whether a missed kick shot is defensive comes back to whether the shooter is deliberately missing the shot or not, so it's still a judgement call. On one hand, you could interpret that to mean that it's only defense if they specifically avoid making the object ball. On the other, you could say it's deliberately missing if the shooter is not really trying to make the ball.
This actually brings up another question about marking defense... Would you consider it a defensive shot if a higher skill level player was missing balls because they just aren't really trying? Not intentionally playing safeties, but just firing balls in the rough direction of the pocket instead of actually aiming. I ask because I've seen this used as a form of sandbagging, and I'm not sure that the above definition of defense would really cover it.
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Good question about missed balls. I never really thought about marking defense....my thought was that they were deliberately running up innings...i e sandbagging .
I do one of 4 things in those situations.
1. Overlook a couple shots
2. Determine if he is just having a bad day. Heck we all have missed shots a time or two with bih trying to get position. At least I have lol
3. If its too obvious he is running up innings I will fill out a handicap review sheet stating exactly what I saw .
4. If no sheets are available I will send my lo a text stating my observations.
Now 3 and 4 I use very sparingly. I know my lo gets dozens of complaints all the time when some one loses lol. My lo will text me back asking specifics a lot of times. He knows I am not one to cry sandbagger and if I send a text concerning a player he knows I have a darn good reason. I have sent texts and gotten replies that he already had concerns about this or that particular player which makes me feel like i had a pretty good feel of what was going down in that particular situation.
I just want to reiterate that I am not a whiner. I feel that in those situations I am doing what's right for all the players in the league to ensure every handicap is legit.
I had apa 9 ball tonight and honestly dont know how I managed to win. Well I did shoot pretty dang good ....when I was not giving up bih.
I scratched on the break once...hooked myself once....my opponent got a lucky leave ...leaving me hooked once. I gave up bih 3 times and he must have made 15 points off those bih's and I still won 38-39 in a 38-46 race. He never once gave me bih. I did pls a few safes but he managed to make a legal hit albeit not pocketing anything
I scratched on the break once...hooked myself once....my opponent got a lucky leave ...leaving me hooked once. I gave up bih 3 times and he must have made 15 points off those bih's and I still won 38-39 in a 38-46 race. He never once gave me bih. I did pls a few safes but he managed to make a legal hit albeit not pocketing anything
We have 9 teams in our bar, and 5 7s in 8 ball. I'm prob the weakest 7 as I am a 7/7 and the others are either 7/9s or 7/8s, but have been really trying to up my game lately after having the last two sessions as just for fun sessions.
Week 1 beat the 7/8, who went 9-1 in 8 ball last session, 5-4.
Week 2 bye
Week 3 beat a 7/9 who is new to the league tonight 5-1. I could tell he thought he was gonna steam roll me, but he hung a ball or two he prob normally makes and I made some good outs. Could have been 5-0 honestly.
Also won nine ball 17-3. The game is finally back on the upslope and improving.
Week 1 beat the 7/8, who went 9-1 in 8 ball last session, 5-4.
Week 2 bye
Week 3 beat a 7/9 who is new to the league tonight 5-1. I could tell he thought he was gonna steam roll me, but he hung a ball or two he prob normally makes and I made some good outs. Could have been 5-0 honestly.
Also won nine ball 17-3. The game is finally back on the upslope and improving.
I had masters this afternoon and faced 2 different players. I lost both matches by the same score. 7-6 . I can't take anything away from my opponents as they played pretty good but my play was a lil sub par.
Left there and went to another venue for my Sunday night apa double jeopardy. I played the same guy in both 8 and 9 . He is a 7 in both and I am a 5 in both. I won 9 ball 38-37 in a 38-55 race. We then played 8 ball and guess he was pretty pissed off about his 9 ball loss. He come out firing every thing in and had 2 break and runs. I lost 5-1 in a 5-3 race and was quite happy to win 1 rack the way he was shooting.
I always say 8 ball is my better game...apparently its his also lol
Left there and went to another venue for my Sunday night apa double jeopardy. I played the same guy in both 8 and 9 . He is a 7 in both and I am a 5 in both. I won 9 ball 38-37 in a 38-55 race. We then played 8 ball and guess he was pretty pissed off about his 9 ball loss. He come out firing every thing in and had 2 break and runs. I lost 5-1 in a 5-3 race and was quite happy to win 1 rack the way he was shooting.
I always say 8 ball is my better game...apparently its his also lol
I understand how that goes. I thought 9 was my better game. I finally managed to win big in 8 ball on Wednesday Night. Kind of shocked. Thursday which is my 9 ball night. I am a 7 playing a SL 4. I started out with a break and run.. Then the next 5 of the following rack. I was like. This is going to be a great night. Then he managed to make a few. Then there was a 3 rack span were I never even saw a ball. I think during that run. He picked up 27 balls. All he needed was 31. I don't understand how it can go so great and then fall off.
I haven't posted about last week's APA match because I wanted some time to think it over. I was ticked after losing 4-3 to an SL 5 that I beat 3-0 the first week of the season (I was a SL4 then, just bumped to SL5 this week.) We both played well, but we were at their bar and playing on some crappy 7 footers. For some reason this messed with my head bad. I missed almost every first shot of the game that I had, and I slow rolled at least 3 balls into the mouth of the pocket without them dropping. I noticed after 2 games that I was short stroking (I think because of the small tables and thinking I needed to hit softer) and I never did figure out the table speed real well. The 7 game match went 32 innings and I played a ton of defensive shots (I think my coach said 7 in one game, but I was too ticked to pay much attention at that point.
We did manage to win the night against the #1 team in our division, but I felt bad that I didn't win a match that I should have.
The good news is that my game is improving. The bad news is that I still have a lot of mental strengthening to do.
We did manage to win the night against the #1 team in our division, but I felt bad that I didn't win a match that I should have.
The good news is that my game is improving. The bad news is that I still have a lot of mental strengthening to do.
It amazes me how much mental effort goes in to Pool. I think we all need to work on Mental Strengthening Pal. It'll all come around.
I continued my downward spiral of sucking wind in 9 ball. Lost to a 5 that I had no business losing to 38-32. (I am a SL6 in 9). I gave up bih way too much and I keep leaving myself hooked, even on easy run outs. I havent had a break in run in league in months. My head just isnt right right now. On a positive note I did beat the same 5 in 8 ball 4-1. (I am a SL5 in 8)