How are you Aiming cut shots.

[DistinguishedBilliards]

I find myself struggling with exact confidence on cuts between about 30-60 degrees. Starting to use the ghost ball and adjust using the outside cue edge to the object ball at 45 degrees to the inside edge of the cue, then working off that to locate the target location. Curios on other ideas or techniques.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I visualize the position of the OB contact point I want the CB to hit, then aim the CB's center a remembered distance outside that (depending on the cut angle). One way to do that is to visualize the CB contact point in the geometrically opposite position from the OB contact point and aim it so they contact each other. "Contact point aiming" isn't for everybody - I'm lucky to have a feel for it.

You can think of the OB contact point as my "reference" - other methods use other references, like, for instance, fractional aiming where you divide the OB visually into quarters (your "references"), aim the CB center at the closest quarter to your estimated aim and adjust fatter or thinner from there.

Good luck!

pj
chgo

 

[Bob Jewett]

I find myself struggling with exact confidence on cuts between about 30-60 degrees. Starting to use the ghost ball and adjust using the outside cue edge to the object ball at 45 degrees to the inside edge of the cue, then working off that to locate the target location. Curios on other ideas or techniques.

When you say "cue" do you mean the cue ball or the cue stick? Some aiming methods use the sides of the cue stick as separate reference lines.

As for your problem with that range of cut angles, I suggest you try a step-wise practice. Using donuts set up a 35 degree (or so) cut shot. Shoot it until you make three (or five) in a row. Change to 38 degrees. Repeat. The shot should be short enough that you have some trouble making the ball but it's not too difficult -- maybe 2 diamonds and 2 diamonds but match your current skill.

You can try this exercise with whatever system you use but I suggest you also try it with just feel. Since you are repeating shots, adjust after a miss to hit the ball fuller/thinner on the next shot.

I think it is also a good idea to mark the center of the pocket with a donut so you can see how accurately you shoot. Strive to put the ball over the donut. You could also do a whole series with the added requirement that the ball must touch the pocket-center donut to count. Of course the shots will have to be shorter to have much chance for three in a row.

 

[BC21]

Fractional aiming using your cue stick... There are only 8 reference lines. From there your mind will begin to fine tune. You can use the old school guessing method, but using the Poolology system could help you develop fractional aiming skills much quicker.

 

[BilliardsAbout]

I find myself struggling with exact confidence on cuts between about 30-60 degrees. Starting to use the ghost ball and adjust using the outside cue edge to the object ball at 45 degrees to the inside edge of the cue, then working off that to locate the target location. Curios on other ideas or techniques.

Old school method, forget ghost ball, cue your stick through center cue ball at the geometric aiming point (point on the object ball opposite the pocket center), which is too thick to cut the ball correctly, but will avoid those ghastly titanic overcuts from ghost ball and aiming, in a sense, away from the object ball in (vain) efforts to thinly slice it.

In a few minutes, simply by gazing at the geometric contact point, you will start to lock in cut shot aiming better than you have before. If a cut is quite thin, then aim the apparent edge of the cue ball at the geometric aim point.

If this doesn't work for you, I can give you a different rubric, but "contact point aim" works well for a great many players with subconscious/subjective adjustment applied, especially since during the practice strokes and the shot you look at a real object in space rather than an imagined invisible point.

 

[poolnut7879]

When using fractional aiming and are down on a shot do you think in fractions while on the ball or is it so engrained in your brain it just happens?

 

[BC21]

When using fractional aiming and are down on a shot do you think in fractions while on the ball or is it so engrained in your brain it just happens?

You determine the aim while standing, not after you get down on the shot. When you're down on the shot, you must feel whether or not you are lined up on the line you chose while standing.

In other words, you determine if the shot calls for an aim #4 or aim #5 (or slightly thicker or thinner), then you step into that aim line so that your body and cue are aligned for the shot. Then you address the cb and ensure that everything feels lined up.

 

[poolnut7879]

You determine the aim while standing, not after you get down on the shot. When you're down on the shot, you must feel whether or not you are lined up on the line you chose while standing.

In other words, you determine if the shot calls for an aim #4 or aim #5 (or slightly thicker or thinner), then you step into that aim line so that your body and cue are aligned for the shot. Then you address the cb and ensure that everything feels lined up.

So once I learn the numbers to identify the fraction, I aim while standing and then get down and if it feels right I shoot?

 

[BC21]

So once I learn the numbers to identify the fraction, I aim while standing and then get down and if it feels right I shoot?

Yes, basically. But it sounds much easier than it really is, because knowing the line is only part of the performance of a shot. You have to have your body aligned properly, and you have to feel confident that it is, then you have to deliver the cue accurately.

Traditionally, identifying the proper fractional aim has always been a matter of trial and error. Eventually you gain enough experience to start recognizing shots automatically. The key is to pay attention, visually, to exactly where you're aiming and exactly where the ob goes. As Bob J said, this helps you develop a good feel/eye for aiming cut shots.

I meantioned the Poolology system because it allows players to skip most of the trial and error of traditional fractional aiming. You don't have to guess/estimate which fractional quarter or eighth is closest. The system does a great job identifying solid references for shots up to about 60°. The in-betweens can be dialed in by using your tip/ferrule as a gage.

Example: Let's say you know 100% that a particular shot is a little thinner than a #4 aim (a halfball hit), but also a little thicker than a #5 aim. If you aim your shaft so that 1/4 of your tip/ferrule overlaps the ob and 3/4 of the tip is lined outside the edge of the ob, you'll have the line for a 4.5 aim.

If more fine tuning is needed, maybe because the shot is closer to a #5 than a #4 (not dead between the two references), then aim so that 1/8 of your tip is aligned to overlap the ob, and 7/8 of the tip is lined outside the edge of ob.

I should add that all of this is 100% subjective, meaning YOU have to make the call as to whether or not you're lined up in accordance with what you're seeing. And you still have to pay attention to your results. This is what helps the mind develop a good feel for aiming. The more you do it, the more automatic it becomes.

 

[SeniorTom]

I don't have much problem with inside cuts along the rail, but more of a problem with outside cuts, if this is the right terminology. Maybe it's because I am not seeing the ball as well with one cut as opposed to another?

 

[BC21]

I don't have much problem with inside cuts along the rail, but more of a problem with outside cuts, if this is the right terminology. Maybe it's because I am not seeing the ball as well with one cut as opposed to another?

Is an "outside" cut a backcut, where you're cutting a ball sort of backwards to the pocket?

A lot of players have trouble with backcuts, but they are normal cut shots that just look different, deceiving the mind a bit. Using a halfball cut as an example, there is no difference in shooting it as an inside cut or an outside cut, other than how the location of the pocket and the cushions makes the two shots look different, even though they aren't really different.

If you setup a backcut (outside cut), and then rotate the entire setup around the pocket (keeping the cut angle the same), it will eventually be a regular (inside) shot. The aim will not change.

The only thing that changes is our visual perspective of the cut as it relates to the pocket and the cushions. Getting beyond this visual deception allows backcuts to become normal/routine shots. What works for me is to focus on the line of the shot and where the cb needs to be to pocket the ob, rather than the oddness of the setup/layout of the shot.

 

[SeniorTom]

It seems I don't see the angle as well on the back cut as I do on what I call an inside cut. Inside cuts I generally do well but an outside cut is sort of my nemesis. I probably should practice them more often because it is a shot that can give me trouble. But visually and inside cut looks so much more simple than the outside cut. I think I got to start trusting my skill set a bit more because I'm a pretty good shot.

 

[boogieman]

Fractional aiming using your cue stick... There are only 8 reference lines. From there your mind will begin to fine tune. You can use the old school guessing method, but using the Poolology system could help you develop fractional aiming skills much quicker.View attachment 721765View attachment 721766

I mean this respectfully, but I'm contact point, I just know where to rub the balls to make it. If I had to figure this much out each shot I would never get out of my head.

 

[bbb]

I mean this respectfully, but I'm contact point, I just know where to rub the balls to make it. If I had to figure this much out each shot I would never get out of my head.

Its just like being a native speaker of another language
if its your natural language you dont have to think about it

 

[Patrick Johnson]

It seems I don't see the angle as well on the back cut as I do on what I call an inside cut. Inside cuts I generally do well but an outside cut is sort of my nemesis. I probably should practice them more often because it is a shot that can give me trouble. But visually and inside cut looks so much more simple than the outside cut. I think I got to start trusting my skill set a bit more because I'm a pretty good shot.

I've usually heard "inside" and "outside" refer to the direction of CB spin in relation to the cut direction - for a left cut, left spin = inside spin / right spin = outside spin. How do you mean it?

pj
chgo

 

[BC21]

I mean this respectfully, but I'm contact point, I just know where to rub the balls to make it. If I had to figure this much out each shot I would never get out of my head.

I understand completely, but the mind uses all visual data, in addition to any specific reference you might be focusing on.

In other words, when you look at the contact point and estimate how far away from that point to aim so that the cb contacts that point, you're giving your brain the entire visual of the ob. You might be focusing on that estimated contact point from behind the cb, but your brain is getting more than just that single reference. And it's paving the neural pathways needed to recognize shots, cb-ob relationships.

The more you do it, the more visual input your brain gets. Eventually, you find yourself not really looking at the contact point for most shots, because your mind recognizes the cb-ob relationship needed to pocket the ball. In other words, you recognize where the cb needs to be, in relation to the ob, not the contact point itself. That's the end result, whether you develop aiming skills using fractional aiming, ghostball, or contact points.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

The more you do it, the more visual input your brain gets. Eventually, you find yourself not really looking at the contact point for most shots, because your mind recognizes the cb-ob relationship needed to pocket the ball. In other words, you recognize where the cb needs to be, in relation to the ob, not the contact point itself. That's the end result, whether you develop aiming skills using fractional aiming, ghostball, or contact points.

I think all aiming eventually evolves to subconscious recognition of the simplest reliable visual: CB/OB overlap. I think the system becomes more and more of a cross check and/or trigger for the overlap visual, still an active and important part.

pj
chgo

 

[BilliardsAbout]

I understand completely, but the mind uses all visual data, in addition to any specific reference you might be focusing on.

In other words, when you look at the contact point and estimate how far away from that point to aim so that the cb contacts that point, you're giving your brain the entire visual of the ob. You might be focusing on that estimated contact point from behind the cb, but your brain is getting more than just that single reference. And it's paving the neural pathways needed to recognize shots, cb-ob relationships.

The more you do it, the more visual input your brain gets. Eventually, you find yourself not really looking at the contact point for most shots, because your mind recognizes the cb-ob relationship needed to pocket the ball. In other words, you recognize where the cb needs to be, in relation to the ob, not the contact point itself. That's the end result, whether you develop aiming skills using fractional aiming, ghostball, or contact points.

I agree wholeheartedly, playing well, the player "just does it" and you are describing that sighting/angle relationship well.

I think PJ is expressing a similar view, too.

Contact point aiming can get someone there faster, by giving a real object to focus on IMHO.

 

[DistinguishedBilliards]

I am currently in a way combining them all I think in sighting and it is slowly building and helping. I think Time and pressure are the key in the process. Here is what I am currently doing and would love to hear everyone continue their discussion on it. So, Lets say its a 28 degree cut to the corner pocket object ball 2 diamonds down the long rail from the pocket and a diamond and half off the short. Cue ball 18" from the object ball.
I will sight the OB to the part of the pocket I want to drop it into or hit, then visualize the ghost ball that would complete that hit. From there I can keep the image of the ghost ball in my mindseye. Then Look around the table and make a choice of leave and get behind the cue then choose English if any is needed. lower myself slightly down and sight the CB to the Ghost ball and confirm visual OB contact point I will also try and use the OB as a hit reference as to where the middle of the Ghost ball is if it is within the target area. Then get half way down with the Cue tip lined up at the CB and sight the same as I lined up mentally and check it. If I like it I get all the way down and give my self a prestroke to see if I am straight. If I like it, I hit it.

I am finding I am starting to make better adjustments but still need to just keep up the routine till my mindseye can make first half adjustments better. I am currently hitting about 30 racks a day.

 

[BC21]

I think all aiming eventually evolves to subconscious recognition of the simplest reliable visual: CB/OB overlap. I think the system becomes more and more of a cross check and/or trigger for the overlap visual, still an active and important part.

pj
chgo

I believe this also. And, once I realized it, I wished I had started off 30+ years ago with fractional aiming, rather than ghostball. If the end result is visual recognition of cb-ob overlap, it would make more sense for beginners to focus directly on the overlaps, instead of indirectly by estimating how far away to aim from the ob for contact points or ghostballs.