How are your morals?

[CantEverWin]

I have a few situation's that I would like to her some thoughts on.
If you are playing in a call pocket format match, and a player has an obvious shot on his final ball, but does not call it. Do you give him the win? Does it matter what situation you are in? Do you have the same answer whether it's the first rack of a tourney, or the hill hill match in the finals?
For those of you who are in APA this one is a little different. I think that everyone playing for any length of time has been faced with this, or heard from someone who has. The situation I speak of is when an opposing team putt's up players that will break the 23 rule. If you notice it before the match starts do you tell the other team, or do you let the match begin and make them forfeit the entire match? Does it make a difference whether or not its a regular session match, playoffs, regionals, or nationals?
The last one is simple, and something that everyone has come across. That is what do you do when your opposing player shoots the wrong couleur group. Do you tell him before he shoots if you notice. Or do wait until he shoots it and call the foul? As with all the rest, does it matter on the situation?
I have read this board for a while. This is the first thread I have posted. A friend of mine and I debated these issues, and I was wondering the opinions of other players. Thank you for your comments.

Mike

 

[vapoolplayer]

I have a few situation's that I would like to her some thoughts on.
If you are playing in a call pocket format match, and a player has an obvious shot on his final ball, but does not call it. Do you give him the win? Does it matter what situation you are in? Do you have the same answer whether it's the first rack of a tourney, or the hill hill match in the finals?
For those of you who are in APA this one is a little different. I think that everyone playing for any length of time has been faced with this, or heard from someone who has. The situation I speak of is when an opposing team putt's up players that will break the 23 rule. If you notice it before the match starts do you tell the other team, or do you let the match begin and make them forfeit the entire match? Does it make a difference whether or not its a regular session match, playoffs, regionals, or nationals?
The last one is simple, and something that everyone has come across. That is what do you do when your opposing player shoots the wrong couleur group. Do you tell him before he shoots if you notice. Or do wait until he shoots it and call the foul? As with all the rest, does it matter on the situation?
I have read this board for a while. This is the first thread I have posted. A friend of mine and I debated these issues, and I was wondering the opinions of other players. Thank you for your comments.

Mike

if the shooter is about to do something illegal and i see it before they shoot, i try to tell them.

many times (in tournaments) i've stopped the opposing player from shooting the wrong numbered ball in 9 ball.

as far as not calling the pocket, most of the time i can tell where they are shooting the ball before they shoot it. if not, i ask them before they shoot.

if i don't catch it before they shoot, and they do something illegal, honestly, it depends on the situation. if its just a league match, or the first match in a set in a tourney, i don't worry about it............if its hill hill.........i probably would.

thanks

VAP

 

[vapoolplayer]

oh, forgot........as far as the 23 rule and such........

if you catch it beforehand, tell them, if not, then you shouldn't let them get away with it.....unless you still stomped their ass.........LOL.


i don't play league anymore, but during the short time i did, i'd seen crazy shit. i was playing 8 ball once, and wasn't paying attention, my opponent had fouled..........i didn't realize it, and went on to shoot the cue ball from where it lay........i had a tough bank and missed.........my opponent, then joyfully tells me......."you know that was ball in hand". i proceeded to take my cue apart........if he needs to win that bad.......then go right ahead.

same thing happened once playing 9 ball.........again i wasn't paying attention(seems to be a pattern......LOL) and went to shoot the wrong ball.......i actually studied the shot for a minute..........my opponent just let me shoot.........and came running to the table as soon as the cue ball left my stick.........

i think you should tell the player if you see them about to do something obvious like that...........i do...........i don't need to rely on stupid stuff like that to win.

thanks

VAP

 

[TheBook]

Depends on who I am playing. I don't need to win a game that bad to have to rely on technicallities.

I have seen players just drolling and waiting for the opponent to shoot and and not call the money ball. Unless the player is a jerk I will inform them.

One time I informed a player as he was getting ready to shoot that he didn't call his pocket. He looked at me really pissed and said I know that I am just lining up the shot. Never talked to him again and our team called him on everything every time we played against him.

 

[Qnut]

I agree wholeheartedly with all of VAP's assessments. I don't ever need to win so bad that I would take it on some BS technicality.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of players & teams that hawk the game with a rulebook in one hand and a microscope in the other. I'd be embarrassed to take a victory like that. It's bad enough taking a win when your opponent bags a shot that you know they will make 9/10 times. I want to win because I played well and deserved it, not because I got lucky.

As far as the APA 23 rule, I don't have a rulebook in front of me, but I didn't think you received a forfeit for the entire match if a team broke it. Also, I thought it was OK to go over if the other team allowed it. If this is the case, what constitutes allowing it? Is it letting the match in question start, or is it signing the paperwork?

In 8 years, I've only seen a team accidentally crack 23 once, and when they threw the last player we told them before the match started and since he was the only one left we took the forfeit for that last match. A couple other times we have let teams go over (I know the APA allowed it at some point) by a point and played. We've also allowed a player to shoot more than once rather than take a forfeit. I'm not sure if the APA still allows this either. I wouldn't do this kind of stuff in the playoffs, but regular season against a team that we are friendly with....

~ Chris

 

[catscradle]

I have a few situation's that I would like to her some thoughts on.
If you are playing in a call pocket format match, and a player has an obvious shot on his final ball, but does not call it. Do you give him the win? Does it matter what situation you are in? Do you have the same answer whether it's the first rack of a tourney, or the hill hill match in the finals?

I will give him the win, but generally if he doesn't actually call it, I'll try to catch him before he shoots and ask him to call it.

For those of you who are in APA this one is a little different. I think that everyone playing for any length of time has been faced with this, or heard from someone who has. The situation I speak of is when an opposing team putt's up players that will break the 23 rule. If you notice it before the match starts do you tell the other team, or do you let the match begin and make them forfeit the entire match? Does it make a difference whether or not its a regular session match, playoffs, regionals, or nationals?

I'd probably tell him and maybe that's why I'm not a captain.

The last one is simple, and something that everyone has come across. That is what do you do when your opposing player shoots the wrong couleur group. Do you tell him before he shoots if you notice. Or do wait until he shoots it and call the foul? As with all the rest, does it matter on the situation?

I tell him before hand if I notice, but I'll certainly take ball in hand if I fail to notice before he shoots it.

I have read this board for a while. This is the first thread I have posted. A friend of mine and I debated these issues, and I was wondering the opinions of other players. Thank you for your comments.

Mike

 

[bruin70]

I have a few situation's that I would like to her some thoughts on.
If you are playing in a call ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I have read this board for a while. This is the first thread I have posted. A friend of mine and I debated these issues, and I was wondering the opinions of other players. Thank you for your comments.

Mike

me,,,,i give it to him. but if this were a professional tournament, everything must be called. it eliminates those "grey area calls". what if your opponent doesn't call a shot he thinks is obvious but you don't?

 

[cuesmith]

me,,,,i give it to him. but if this were a professional tournament, everything must be called. it eliminates those "grey area calls". what if your opponent doesn't call a shot he thinks is obvious but you don't?

I'm just curious which professional tournaments you're refering to where "everything must be called" ?

I've been playing in and attending pro tournaments for 25 years and can't recall a single one that was "call shot"!

Personally I see no reason for call shot! It only creates areas of contention, where players have something to dispute! Let's face it, there is luck involved in all aspects of our lives. Sure we can influence it sometimes, but why try in pool? As our skill level increases, the chances of missing an intended shot and making it elsewhere get slimmer! In reality, seldom is a match decided on a slop shot!

Having owned a couple of poolrooms and pool bars, I've had the chance to break up many fights over the years, often because of a misunderstanding like this. Most pool venues have alcohol served. This tends to loosen up lips and people look for ways to win, regardless! I don't think "call shot" is good for the sport, especially in league or tavern environments! It only creates problems. If "slop" was accepted, as I learned to mandate with "house rules" in my rooms, then there's one less reason for people to argue! It's all fair if you're playing by the same set of known rules!

just more hot air!

Sherm

 

[Billy_Bob]

If it is an obvious shot, I don't say anything and don't care if they call it or not.

If I see someone about to shoot the wrong ball, I'll tell them in advance (if in a tournament). If playing a friend for fun, I might let them run in a few of my balls before telling them.

If someone fouls by nudging the cue ball 1/4 inch or so during warm-up strokes, frequently I'll tell them to go ahead and play. If I do this myself, I'll point it out to my opponent and tell them they have ball-in-hand. Sometimes they tell me to go ahead and play.

If I have a bad hit, I will point it out to my opponent if they did not see it, and tell them they have ball-in-hand.

If it is a double-hit, I'll call a foul. I do this because players need to learn about this should they ever play in a regional tournament. Many people around here don't know what a double hit is.

But basically I want to win by skill - not by calling fouls. Especially something like an obvious shot which was not called. It is obvious where they were aiming for. In my mind, it does not change anything if they call it or not.

And I need to learn not to foul. I will learn quicker if there is a penalty to myself. So that is why I point out my fouls to my opponent. It will help me to become a better player in the long run.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

I have a few situation's that I would like to her some thoughts on.
If you are playing in a call pocket format match, and a player has an obvious shot on his final ball, but does not call it. Do you give him the win? Does it matter what situation you are in? Do you have the same answer whether it's the first rack of a tourney, or the hill hill match in the finals?
For those of you who are in APA this one is a little different. I think that everyone playing for any length of time has been faced with this, or heard from someone who has. The situation I speak of is when an opposing team putt's up players that will break the 23 rule. If you notice it before the match starts do you tell the other team, or do you let the match begin and make them forfeit the entire match? Does it make a difference whether or not its a regular session match, playoffs, regionals, or nationals?
The last one is simple, and something that everyone has come across. That is what do you do when your opposing player shoots the wrong couleur group. Do you tell him before he shoots if you notice. Or do wait until he shoots it and call the foul? As with all the rest, does it matter on the situation?
I have read this board for a while. This is the first thread I have posted. A friend of mine and I debated these issues, and I was wondering the opinions of other players. Thank you for your comments.

Mike

Playing in the APA Singles Championships, my opponent had safed me behind the eightball for my final shot. I made an incredible kick to pocket the ball AND get position. In my whirlwind of thoughts, I proceeded to pocket the 8-ball without "marking my pocket". My opponent came up and informed me of my error saying, "That was a great shot but I'm sorry, you didn't mark the pocket."

Well, as it turned out, the pocket had already been marked from the previous game and the rule states that I need not mark and already marked pocket so I was allowed to keep the win but all I could think to myself at the moment was 'what an ass. He wasn't sorry in the least. He tried to take a win away from me!'.

The following year, an opponent of mine failed to mark the pocket. I went up to him and said, "I'm not taking your win away but please try to remember to mark the pocket next time. Others won't be so nice." In my opinion, wins and losses should happen on the table. Sideline victories (as I call them) are poor sportsmanship REGARDLESS which league you play in or what the league-rules are. In my opinion, there's a higher standard in competitive pool and if you can't live up to that, you really shouldn't be competing.

 

[Skess]

Fortunately, I've never had the "forgot to patch the pocket" come up in a match of any great importance. I have seen it happen in other people's matches and in one case, friendships were lost over it.

As to the other stuff, I play as straight up as I can. There has been the occasional idiot that I may hold back on, but that's pretty rare. Like you said Billy Bob, I want the match decided on the table. The league rulebook guys drive me nuts. In my experience, it usually comes around for them. At the end of the day, it's still just a game.

 

[Egg McDogit]

Honestly, it depends on the person I'm playing. For instance, I was gambling someone the other week and he blatantly cheated several times and also pulled a bunch of stupid moves on me. At one point, he shot at the wrong ball - I didn't say a word...took ball in hand and ran out.

Has anyone ever seen that 1-hole move where you shoot at the other guy's pocket? lol

peace
-egg

 

[Egg McDogit]

ROFLMAO!!! Oh man that is SWEET! What was the guy's reaction?? Did he whine?? I hope he whined lol.

I think anyone who wins on that rule, or the one where the cueball has to come to a complete stop before taking ball in hand off a foul, should be caned.

peace
-egg

Well, as it turned out, the pocket had already been marked from the previous game and the rule states that I need not mark and already marked pocket so I was allowed to keep the win but all I could think to myself at the moment was 'what an ass. He wasn't sorry in the least. He tried to take a win away from me!'.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Honestly, it depends on the person I'm playing. For instance, I was gambling someone the other week and he blatantly cheated several times and also pulled a bunch of stupid moves on me. At one point, he shot at the wrong ball - I didn't say a word...took ball in hand and ran out.

Has anyone ever seen that 1-hole move where you shoot at the other guy's pocket? lol

peace
-egg

More often than not, that's an honest mistake. However, gambling is a seperate issue. There's a 'keeping the customer' issue which is always present. In otherwords, keep trying to pull moves with your opponent and he may never play you again. Now, this may work all well and good if he's better than you but if he's the biggest trout in the lake, you'll only have yourself to blame.

 

[Rackin_Zack]

I generally tell my opponent if they are about to foul, that is unless I don't like them...lol.

In the last state 8-ball tourney I was playing my first match and I was losing 2-4 in a race to 6 but was playing very well and had gotten a couple of bad rolls on really tough shots. Well, I played safe on the guy and got ball-in-hand. I had 1 o.b. and the 8 left on the table and it was a really easy run. I moved the cue ball with my ferrule and the guy stopped me saying that I fouled because I moved the ball with the side of my tip. I still say that I did not use my tip because I destinctively heard the ivory hit the ball but some other jackass spouted up that he saw me move it with my tip as well. Anyhow, I ended up losing the match because that put him on the hill and took me out of my game. It was a pretty chickenshit thing to do if you ask me!

 

[Egg McDogit]

The cheating didn't involve shooting the wrong ball - everything else you can imagine though. Playing the guy is a nightmare. It's non-stop cheating, idiotic moves, etc. When he shot the wrong ball, it was an honest mistake - I let my frustration and anger get the best of me...I was so pissed at that point that I didn't tell him before he shot it.

I still have a game with him and a couple people want to back me - I'm thinking of going in that way so I don't get as stressed over the cheating.

peace
-egg

More often than not, that's an honest mistake. However, gambling is a seperate issue. There's a 'keeping the customer' issue which is always present. In otherwords, keep trying to pull moves with your opponent and he may never play you again. Now, this may work all well and good if he's better than you but if he's the biggest trout in the lake, you'll only have yourself to blame.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

ROFLMAO!!! Oh man that is SWEET! What was the guy's reaction?? Did he whine?? I hope he whined lol.

I think anyone who wins on that rule, or the one where the cueball has to come to a complete stop before taking ball in hand off a foul, should be caned.

peace
-egg

He was dumbfounded and had nothing to say. I was just thanking the Pool Gods for the good fortune but honestly, right after it happened, I thought to myself, 'I didn't travel 3,000 miles so I can win OR lose that way.' I really wish I could laugh about it now and I usually laugh at idiots but I can't. That guy was just an ass.

That's why when I was on the other side of the coin the following year, all I did was inform my opponent of his miss-doing. I didn't take the game, I lost that set and I'm sure it could have made a difference.

 

[Bruce S. de Lis]

Sometime I think MORALS DECAY with age. Let me explain, as I live in an Age Restricted Community. I refer to it KIDDINGLY as “JURASSIC PARK”.

Last Tuesday I was playing in one of the Jurassic Park Leagues, this is not for BIG MONEY, as Each player puts in $2.00 and at the end the pot is Split among the THREE TOP TEAMS.

I was paired with a guy I never played with before, and we were waiting for another team to play we had not played.

Next to us a Team was going to play another team, and apparently one of the team members was not happy with the result of a COIN TOSS for who broke, so one of the one team walked off because apparently they were Heart Set on Breaking.

Well we had to play both of the Two Teams that engaged in a Huge Argument over the one Team Walking.

So I toss the Coin to see who Breaks, and one of the S.O.B.'s who is causing all the trouble. Waits until the Coin hit the Cloth, Settles, and can see the Results. He say “HEADS”, and I say nothing,( But have some interesting thoughts) and the other team Breaks, as who need another argument over nothing of any real consequence.

Well we beat this team, so F**, the Coin toss, as it mean nothing.

As I said I think about 60ish some peoples moral Some Time Decay, as they don’t have long to live, but the Churchs in our Community seem to pack in the Sinners ever Sunday looking to make thing right sould it be their last SUNDAY..

 

[PoolBum]

ROFLMAO!!! Oh man that is SWEET! What was the guy's reaction?? Did he whine?? I hope he whined lol.

I think anyone who wins on that rule, or the one where the cueball has to come to a complete stop before taking ball in hand off a foul, should be caned.

peace
-egg

What about the following cueball situation.

Nineball. Player A is hooked on the four ball after Player B plays a safety. Player A kicks at the four, misses the ball, and as the cueball is traveling up table in the direction of the the seven and eight which are tied up, player A grabs the cueball.

Player A has already fouled by not making a good hit on the four ball. But then Player A interferes with the rolling cueball which may or may not have broken up the seven and eight. Player B takes ball in hand, runs to the seven, but has to play a safe on the seven since the seven and eight are still tied up, and this time Player A makes a good hit on the seven and the seven goes in a pocket and Player A makes the eight and nine to win the game.

What do you think about this scenario?

 

[Rackin_Zack]

What about the following cueball situation.

Nineball. Player A is hooked on the four ball after Player B plays a safety. Player A kicks at the four, misses the ball, and as the cueball is traveling up table in the direction of the the seven and eight which are tied up, player A grabs the cueball.

Player A has already fouled by not making a good hit on the four ball. But then Player A interferes with the rolling cueball which may or may not have broken up the seven and eight. Player B takes ball in hand, runs to the seven, but has to play a safe on the seven since the seven and eight are still tied up, and this time Player A makes a good hit on the seven and the seven goes in a pocket and Player A makes the eight and nine to win the game.

What do you think about this scenario?

I think the official ruling is that it is a forfeiture of game to stop a ball when it could come into contact with other balls on the table.