If it works on a 7' table as well as a 10' table, I don't think it would matter since pool balls are proportionally smaller or larger relative to the varying pool table sizes.
How beneficial is an aiming system?
- Thread starter nahog99
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If it works on a 7' table as well as a 10' table, I don't think it would matter since pool balls are proportionally smaller or larger relative to the varying pool table sizes.
Stan confirmed that it would work with snooker. For some reason, I had thought I had heard one time that it wouldn't work with snooker balls. And yes, table size is essentially irrelevant as long as there is a 2:1 ration length to width.
Perhaps Stan should utilize Thaiger to promote CTE/Pro One to the thousands of perfectly straight shooting cueists playing Snooker on the British Isle. After all, I'm sure this troll is well known and respected by all those folks. LMAO! I think Thaiger is the British equivalent of Duckie ... only worse.
Perhaps Stan should utilize Thaiger to promote CTE/Pro One to the thousands of perfectly straight shooting cueists playing Snooker on the British Isle. After all, I'm sure this troll is well known and respected by all those folks. LMAO! I think Thaiger is the British equivalent of Duckie ... only worse.
Sorry if you cant handle the truth....but CTE is a gimmick right along with TOI....if you can't handle that, oh well......
Truth hurts......
The worse thing any player can do is to use CTE. To complicated, always need further clarification because it just doesn't make sense.
How do you adjust for playing conditions? What about the pocket that if the OB is hit at certain speed, rolls off line going to the pocket. The roll off to the pocket must be adjusted for. How do adjust for this with CTE? What feedback does it provide in order to make this adjustment?
To adjust for this rolling off line, you have to know where to place the CB on the table to adjust for this.
If all the visuals of CTE do is give you is a line to the pocket, you can not make this adjustment for roll off.
Promoting a product you sell is not the same as promote pool......its promoting a product you sell....it is just pool related.
I have as great a passion for pool, maybe more even so. I know what it takes to play consistent pool, and it ain't any one aiming systems that so many seems to want to keep trying to put on a pedestal. Maybe because I know this truth that I am so against the BS that is stated in relation to CTE.
And don't kid yourself.....I do know my way around the pool table, quite well and as such this is why I say the contact patch principle of Ghost Ball is the best way to aim. Why well......it just works...........
Ever have a bank that does play like the other banks on the table? Requires adjustment.
A aiming system must able to take into account field conditions that require adjustments, not just only consider the pocket. This makes it of limited value.
But hey CTE is so simple a cave man can use it.........
Truth hurts......
The worse thing any player can do is to use CTE. To complicated, always need further clarification because it just doesn't make sense.
How do you adjust for playing conditions? What about the pocket that if the OB is hit at certain speed, rolls off line going to the pocket. The roll off to the pocket must be adjusted for. How do adjust for this with CTE? What feedback does it provide in order to make this adjustment?
To adjust for this rolling off line, you have to know where to place the CB on the table to adjust for this.
If all the visuals of CTE do is give you is a line to the pocket, you can not make this adjustment for roll off.
Promoting a product you sell is not the same as promote pool......its promoting a product you sell....it is just pool related.
I have as great a passion for pool, maybe more even so. I know what it takes to play consistent pool, and it ain't any one aiming systems that so many seems to want to keep trying to put on a pedestal. Maybe because I know this truth that I am so against the BS that is stated in relation to CTE.
And don't kid yourself.....I do know my way around the pool table, quite well and as such this is why I say the contact patch principle of Ghost Ball is the best way to aim. Why well......it just works...........
Ever have a bank that does play like the other banks on the table? Requires adjustment.
A aiming system must able to take into account field conditions that require adjustments, not just only consider the pocket. This makes it of limited value.
But hey CTE is so simple a cave man can use it.........
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From the man that has spent little to no time at all trying CTE.
Bash something you have not tried...Bruce Lee is turning over in his grave.
It is wonderful that you think what you do works for you. Give others the same respect in allowing them to experiment and draw their own conclusions as to what will work for their game.
They are not you.
Bash something you have not tried...Bruce Lee is turning over in his grave.
It is wonderful that you think what you do works for you. Give others the same respect in allowing them to experiment and draw their own conclusions as to what will work for their game.
They are not you.
Duckles
For someone that knows their way around the pool table, surely you would know that the main cause for a ball to roll off is when it's played at a very slow speed.
How do you combat this? Aim differently, which is probably what you waste your time doing. I, on the other, would rather just keep it simple by aiming as I always do and actually stroking the ball.
Oh, and you can definitely play balls at pocket speed by stroking the shot to eliminate any roll off. Well, maybe you can't, but I can. So can anyone else that doesn't suck at pool.
For someone that knows their way around the pool table, surely you would know that the main cause for a ball to roll off is when it's played at a very slow speed.
How do you combat this? Aim differently, which is probably what you waste your time doing. I, on the other, would rather just keep it simple by aiming as I always do and actually stroking the ball.
Oh, and you can definitely play balls at pocket speed by stroking the shot to eliminate any roll off. Well, maybe you can't, but I can. So can anyone else that doesn't suck at pool.
Duckie has a different arrow template to account for roll off.
You are living proof that some people are just plain unteachable. But, PLEASE prove me wrong and post a video of you doing the Billiard University exams.
The part I find really sad, and I mean that, is that I truly believe you have a passion to play pool. And that you truly try and get better. The sad part is, until you change your thinking on how to play the game, you are just spinning your wheels. You keep doing the same thing over and over and getting the same poor results. Why do you think you will suddenly get better when you keep doing the same things and won't try any different ways of doing it?? You always dismiss everything that isn't what you are now doing. How's what you are now doing been working out for you?
I just can't believe this guy won't give it up. His constant attempts to defame CTE when Stan's versions were first coming out were bad enough, but people didn't know what to believe because most people knew so little about the system. Now that so many people have used it with such good success, he is really making himself look foolish, especially among those who use CTE, and see these attempts as badly misguided and misinformed pool information.
It may not be for everyone, but the system itself definitely works. I make harder to see shots at a much higher rate, and now play all my shots using CTE. I have no reason to bias my statements about CTE. I am simply someone who tried it when the DVD came out, and has been using it ever since. After that amount of time, I can say without a doubt that it works. I am certainly not a world beater, but at least it isn't my aiming that is the main thing holding me back now.
Duckie, your opinions are well known, and do not need to be restated over and over again. If you have nothing more to add to the OP's original question, it is probably better to leave well enough alone than to continue a personal attack against aiming methods. I do not say that to be difficult or mean to you, but to allow the forum to serve its purpose without constatnly being pulled off track.
I also can't believe we are back a this point of a 20 page thread that ruins the OP's ability to gain anything from his original question.
To the OP. Many of the aiming systems that are popular have many people who feel they have benefited their game, and helped it get to the next level. Some people will benefit more than others from these systems. Also, they do generally take some practice to get good at, and are, of course, only as good as you are able to apply them correctly. They are probably worth a try if you feel improved aiming is something that would help your game.
To everyone else. If you have used and strongly believe that your system works, why even return a comment to those that continually step into the threads and attack the systems. Those who do not believe they work and have not tried them to a point that is legitimate to comment on will not be worth carrying on a discussion with, especially when their bias is so strongly against. My suggestion is simply ignore those posts and they will not take up 15 pages. Only answer reasonable questions and statements about the systems and don't give the others the satisfaction to engage in a conversation that can never go anywhere.
To the OP. Many of the aiming systems that are popular have many people who feel they have benefited their game, and helped it get to the next level. Some people will benefit more than others from these systems. Also, they do generally take some practice to get good at, and are, of course, only as good as you are able to apply them correctly. They are probably worth a try if you feel improved aiming is something that would help your game.
To everyone else. If you have used and strongly believe that your system works, why even return a comment to those that continually step into the threads and attack the systems. Those who do not believe they work and have not tried them to a point that is legitimate to comment on will not be worth carrying on a discussion with, especially when their bias is so strongly against. My suggestion is simply ignore those posts and they will not take up 15 pages. Only answer reasonable questions and statements about the systems and don't give the others the satisfaction to engage in a conversation that can never go anywhere.
How beneficial is an aiming system?
It is as follows:
A) Learning Curve are shortened
-- I've experienced this first hand, it took me years just to be consistent in pocketing balls.Side pockets are hard, before I learned CTE Pro one I used to evade side pockets, but now it's like, "okay, no pressure".
B) The confidence.
--Confidence can be gained through growth and experience, I've earned that, but there are some shots (especially when gambling) which could really put stress on your game, it's not the pressure of money or any trophies, it's just 'that' certain shot that makes you feel like "What should I do?"
C) The Presence that you give off to your opponents and audience
--You will see it in their eyes, it's like their thinking "This dude is great, he never miss or rather missing but it's always an inch to the pocket!" although you know truly to yourself that you are not as good as they exaggerate.
D) The Joy and the love for the Game
--I think I don;t need to explain this.. It puts smile on my face whenever I pocket a ball using an aiming system.
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FACT: an aiming system puts stress to the eyes... but with effort and perseverance it can become natural(feel)
FACT: Ignore guys who defame any aiming system especially CTE Pro One or SEE System, In my opinion, with all due respect to those who don;t believe in it. It's not that It doesn't work, it's just that they didn't put enough time in it, or if they did, their analytical mind always hindering their progress.
It's not that those who do not believe in aiming system, do not have the proper intellect or logic to understand it. it's about the heart! do they really wanna learn it? or do they wanna learn it the easy way..
You see any aiming system can be learned by anybody with enough time and effort. it is very impossible that a certain player could learn it and some do not, to the point that they defame it... that's very impossible....
Again the reason we are members of AZB is because of the love of the game.
and the answer to the OP's question:
Beneficial, very beneficial..... as in very...
It is as follows:
A) Learning Curve are shortened
-- I've experienced this first hand, it took me years just to be consistent in pocketing balls.Side pockets are hard, before I learned CTE Pro one I used to evade side pockets, but now it's like, "okay, no pressure".
B) The confidence.
--Confidence can be gained through growth and experience, I've earned that, but there are some shots (especially when gambling) which could really put stress on your game, it's not the pressure of money or any trophies, it's just 'that' certain shot that makes you feel like "What should I do?"
C) The Presence that you give off to your opponents and audience
--You will see it in their eyes, it's like their thinking "This dude is great, he never miss or rather missing but it's always an inch to the pocket!" although you know truly to yourself that you are not as good as they exaggerate.
D) The Joy and the love for the Game
--I think I don;t need to explain this.. It puts smile on my face whenever I pocket a ball using an aiming system.
==========================================================================
FACT: an aiming system puts stress to the eyes... but with effort and perseverance it can become natural(feel)
FACT: Ignore guys who defame any aiming system especially CTE Pro One or SEE System, In my opinion, with all due respect to those who don;t believe in it. It's not that It doesn't work, it's just that they didn't put enough time in it, or if they did, their analytical mind always hindering their progress.
It's not that those who do not believe in aiming system, do not have the proper intellect or logic to understand it. it's about the heart! do they really wanna learn it? or do they wanna learn it the easy way..
You see any aiming system can be learned by anybody with enough time and effort. it is very impossible that a certain player could learn it and some do not, to the point that they defame it... that's very impossible....
Again the reason we are members of AZB is because of the love of the game.
and the answer to the OP's question:
Beneficial, very beneficial..... as in very...
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Additionally
Every pool player USE an aiming system, that's a fact!
let me give an example, coz some of you may think that an aiming system is comprised of pivot and contact points.
Efren Reyes, Does he use any aiming system? NO! but how do you explain he pockets ball perfectly and consistently? some would say he is gifted, or he just feel his way to the shot.... THAT's WRONG
yes he is GIFTED of course with the help of repetition and practice, he pockets balls consistently.
GIFTED is gifted no question, but FEEL?, FEEL is the product of Experience and repetitions.
The fact that some of the TOP players (whoever it is) that does not use a "known" aiming system looks at the object ball and align himself at the angle of the shot or feel it, is actually using an aiming system which is his own of course.
so is a "KNOWN" aiming system beneficial? YES.
Every pool player USE an aiming system, that's a fact!
let me give an example, coz some of you may think that an aiming system is comprised of pivot and contact points.
Efren Reyes, Does he use any aiming system? NO! but how do you explain he pockets ball perfectly and consistently? some would say he is gifted, or he just feel his way to the shot.... THAT's WRONG
yes he is GIFTED of course with the help of repetition and practice, he pockets balls consistently.
GIFTED is gifted no question, but FEEL?, FEEL is the product of Experience and repetitions.
The fact that some of the TOP players (whoever it is) that does not use a "known" aiming system looks at the object ball and align himself at the angle of the shot or feel it, is actually using an aiming system which is his own of course.
so is a "KNOWN" aiming system beneficial? YES.
This has been entertaining
I've stayed away from this thread until now bc I wanted to read it all with uninterrupted commercials. Lol
I, along with a handful of others, believe in CTE. The only difference is I don't get into senseless debates on it. I'm even surprised at how furiously we defend it. Bottom line is CTE doesn't need us to defend it. Just practice, play, and enjoy the benefits, while the cool kids smoke and act tough until high schools over and they realize they should have put more work in. Lol
Jk to those of you who are taking offense to this statement. But I do thank everyone for the entertainment value of another derailed thread. :grin:
I've stayed away from this thread until now bc I wanted to read it all with uninterrupted commercials. Lol
I, along with a handful of others, believe in CTE. The only difference is I don't get into senseless debates on it. I'm even surprised at how furiously we defend it. Bottom line is CTE doesn't need us to defend it. Just practice, play, and enjoy the benefits, while the cool kids smoke and act tough until high schools over and they realize they should have put more work in. Lol
Jk to those of you who are taking offense to this statement. But I do thank everyone for the entertainment value of another derailed thread. :grin:
lol, but to add to your comparison...
There is a door which some people claim has a million dollars on the other side of it. A man is in front of the door selling tickets (DVDs and lessons if you will) which you can purchase to have a chance at opening the door. Now if you think this scheme is nonsense and finding a million dollars behind the door is as likely as finding it behind any random door, behind doors which are free to open, isn't it right to tell this to those blindly handing this man $20 dollars a time to open the door and look behind it?
It's not about holding people back. It's about exposing fantasy.
I do think your comparison works well on one level, though. It reflects one of the biggest issues with American pool. In this game there are no magic doors with a million dollars behind them. In spite of what many people want to believe and in spite of what many others want to sell you, they just don't exist. There's no easy trick to finding that million dollars. In pool, much like in the real world, you just have to get on the table and earn it.
No tricks, no tonics, no systems. Just talent, time and practice. But people here don't want to hear that.
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Show me a post where an aiming system advocate said you don't need to practice or put time into this. Use the search feature of this board.
Since we all have opinions here are mine;
Talent = overrated
Time = essential
Practice = essential (as long as you are practicing correctly)
Tricks-Tonics = Dont know any
Systems = If you are talking about aiming systems, I bet you have one also. You might not be able to recognize it as such, but it is there. I hope you believe that other systems exist and work also.
Oh, and I don't use CTE or teach it but I will not dismiss the benefits it provides those that do use it have expressed.
Since we all have opinions here are mine;
Talent = overrated
Time = essential
Practice = essential (as long as you are practicing correctly)
Tricks-Tonics = Dont know any
Systems = If you are talking about aiming systems, I bet you have one also. You might not be able to recognize it as such, but it is there. I hope you believe that other systems exist and work also.
Oh, and I don't use CTE or teach it but I will not dismiss the benefits it provides those that do use it have expressed.
You keep saying people in the USA dont' want to hear it.
You are wrong on two counts.
The first count is that there are many Americans who do take exactly your "no shortcuts" million balls only path attitude and they are quite vocal about it.
The second count is that no one who teaches aiming systems has claimed it's any kind of magic cure, magic door, instant transport to professional status etc.... no one who uses them has claimed that. What has been said is that these methods are a different way of staring down the shot and that this way leads to more consistent shot making IF the fundamentals and other aspects of the game are solid. What has been said is that these methods require practice to become familiar and comfortable in their use.
People like you, Thaiger, Banks, VoiceofReason, Lou and a few others continually twist this around as if someone is selling snake oil. The only reason that anyone is actually even selling dvds and books on aiming is because they spent time putting that knowledge into those formats and would like to at the least break even on the costs. The only reason a CTE dvd exists at all is because of the snake-oil accusations that have been leveled.
What's funny is that you all want to have it both ways.
You ask for proof of mastery and when it's given you (as a group, no you specificially) disqualify those who display great skill and claim they use CTE as their method of aiming. You accuse those those folks of outright lying deliberately OR of being so unaware that they don't know they are not deliberately using CTE to aim. Then to cap it off when they tell you that it took them dozens and hundreds of hours to master the methods you then use that to say that CTE isn't the magic pill you said we claimed it was. So essentially you say nothing but hard work will get you there and when we say well we put in hard work using this method and show you mastery (we - does not include me) then that's also not satisfactory.
Seems to me that what you really want is to lock a person into a room with just a pool or snooker table and not let them out for five years and expect that in that time with no instruction they will become world class level.
OR
People are ONLY allowed to have instruction from your list of approved instructors. Any instructor who deviates from your approved list of instructive methods is deemed a snake-oil salesman and should be drummed out of the business.
That's about how I see it.
I vote for Dr. Dave as a student for Stan. I think Dr. Dave is well respected. He is someone that will test just about anything and probably give the best feedback. I don't think he looks at pool as personal but from a more scientific point of view. In my opinion he may be the best candidate to evaluate CTE PRO ONE. If Dr. Dave spent a week with Stan or however a training session take. I may be more inclined to believe his evaluation afterwards.
Experiment
Take whoever you want that is a Real CTE (whatever Real means from Stan's wording) Pro One player and get them off their table. Come hit on my 8 foot Olhausen, or any table that isn't there own. I will place the cue and object balls on the table, and give them six shots, one for each pocket and lets see how many pockets they can hit the object ball into. You only get one chance per pocket, and you have to call it, just like in a real game, where you only get one shot.
What percentage can you make?
Ok it isn't a big enough sample. Lets do it 100 times from different positions so you are not playing the same shot twice. What percentage do you make?
He/she should make them all since the are "Geometrically connected", but are they really? I would say not if you are applying english to make them. Would it be geometrically connected if I hit the cueball straight into a rail and it came off the rail to the left, because I use left hand spin? No. Geometrically connected would bring the ball right back to me in a straight line.
For all the people out there that say they use CTE on every shot, and CTE is suppose to bring you to center pocket how do you do make a shot when the pocket is blocked by another ball. I am talking when you need to come off the rail then carom off the blocking ball to pocket the ball? Surely you can't make the ball go to a spot on the rail because CTE takes everything to the pocket.
Take whoever you want that is a Real CTE (whatever Real means from Stan's wording) Pro One player and get them off their table. Come hit on my 8 foot Olhausen, or any table that isn't there own. I will place the cue and object balls on the table, and give them six shots, one for each pocket and lets see how many pockets they can hit the object ball into. You only get one chance per pocket, and you have to call it, just like in a real game, where you only get one shot.
What percentage can you make?
Ok it isn't a big enough sample. Lets do it 100 times from different positions so you are not playing the same shot twice. What percentage do you make?
He/she should make them all since the are "Geometrically connected", but are they really? I would say not if you are applying english to make them. Would it be geometrically connected if I hit the cueball straight into a rail and it came off the rail to the left, because I use left hand spin? No. Geometrically connected would bring the ball right back to me in a straight line.
For all the people out there that say they use CTE on every shot, and CTE is suppose to bring you to center pocket how do you do make a shot when the pocket is blocked by another ball. I am talking when you need to come off the rail then carom off the blocking ball to pocket the ball? Surely you can't make the ball go to a spot on the rail because CTE takes everything to the pocket.